RE: Alpine A110S vs. Porsche 718 GT4 vs. Audi R8 RWS

[cib24]

I didn't know the Alpine base A110 was this quick! Granted it has KW coilovers on it for track use but look how well it darts in and out of corners and simply pulls away from the Cayman GT4! Wow!

https://youtu.be/AE9_teR6SX8

[cerb4.5lee]

Hungrymc said:

I totally understand why people question the Evoras price. All I can say is it’s a spectacular drive. The weight is a surprise for a Lotus. And it’s a bigger surprise when you drive it as the sensations are all of a lighter car (it ‘felt’ much lighter and more agile than the 996 911 I had before - I’d have guessed at 200kg lighter, but it was actually heavier - it’s a clever trick Lotus have done there)

The interior... hmm... it’s all the right a-surface materials and the specification reads well but the detail execution isn’t great,... however. It’s a truly wonderful car and a very clever package.

The Evora is certainly my type of car(I much prefer it to the A110 other than weight) because I like a V6 over a 4 cylinder engine and I also prefer a manual gearbox. I also like the way it looks too.

I just think Lotus have been really cheeky with the pricing of it. It is an old car yet the price has pretty much doubled since it was launched. If people are still willing to pay that sort of money for one though...then you can't really blame Lotus for charging it.

Lotus have taken a leaf out of Porsches book and they have decided to charge whatever they like...because they know that the punters will pay it anyway. Good business for sure.

[bcr5784]

Hungrymc said:

I totally understand why people question the Evoras price. All I can say is it’s a spectacular drive. The weight is a surprise for a Lotus. And it’s a bigger surprise when you drive it as the sensations are all of a lighter car (it ‘felt’ much lighter and more agile than the 996 911 I had before - I’d have guessed at 200kg lighter, but it was actually heavier - it’s a clever trick Lotus have done there)

The interior... hmm... it’s all the right a-surface materials and the specification reads well but the detail execution isn’t great,... however. It’s a truly wonderful car and a very clever package.

My choice came down to a (secondhand) Evora or an A110 to replace my 981S. I came down on the Alpine side -- the agility swayed it for me (though as you say the Evora does feel lighter than the figures suggest). However I certainly see why others might take an alternative view, especially if the manual gearbox is important to you. I would have chosen a manual Evora, but I'm just as happy with a good DCT (heresy I know!).

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 14th February 09:03

[Ultrafunkula]

Hungrymc said:

Ultrafunkula said:

. I think that's more of an issue with BMW/Merc/Audi to be honest (not that Porsche snobs don't exist, of course. Much like the reliability issues though, I think they are slightly exaggerated).

The vast majority of Cayman owners buy them because of what they are - a fun, well balanced, impressive drivers car. I'm sure it will be the same for Alpine.

What is it with this thread that someone can't say something positive about a car they favor without having a pop at owners of other cars..... Bonkers.

IME it's more a thing with the owners of these cars, of course in other peoples experiences it may not be - I'm sure you have your own opinions. For the record my favourite manufacturer is Ford, I'd prefer it if the Cayman was made by them.

[nickfrog]

Helicopter123 said:

It's worse than that though, I like the Renault Alpine but because I would prefer a manual gearbox in a sportscar, and ideally a naturally aspirated high revving engine, you would think I'd just called someone's baby ugly.

This is all in your head. People generally are more open minded than you. Remember you called the Alpine a hot hatch in a frock (correct me if I am wrong) by calling it the Megane's TT, people just laughed and surely you can see why, they were not upset, they just found it hilarious.

Also, you still haven't told us if you really believed you couldn't be a true enthusiast if you had an auto.

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 14th February 09:38

[CABC]

blueg33 said:

I have had two and am in the market for another sports car, budget £70k. I will probably buy used, and still haven’t found anything that offers the feel performance and sense of occasion apart from a 20 year old Ferrari.

F-Type?
it wont be 'better' but many respected drivers do comment on its undoubted character.
A110 despite being auto due to its superlative abilities elsewhere?
Problem you've got at "just" 70k is that the Evora is at the peak of your chosen hill. need to climb another hill.
Mustang GT350, just for the engine

[blueg33]

cerb4.5lee said:

Hungrymc said:

I totally understand why people question the Evoras price. All I can say is it’s a spectacular drive. The weight is a surprise for a Lotus. And it’s a bigger surprise when you drive it as the sensations are all of a lighter car (it ‘felt’ much lighter and more agile than the 996 911 I had before - I’d have guessed at 200kg lighter, but it was actually heavier - it’s a clever trick Lotus have done there)

The interior... hmm... it’s all the right a-surface materials and the specification reads well but the detail execution isn’t great,... however. It’s a truly wonderful car and a very clever package.

The Evora is certainly my type of car(I much prefer it to the A110 other than weight) because I like a V6 over a 4 cylinder engine and I also prefer a manual gearbox. I also like the way it looks too.

I just think Lotus have been really cheeky with the pricing of it. It is an old car yet the price has pretty much doubled since it was launched. If people are still willing to pay that sort of money for one though...then you can't really blame Lotus for charging it.

Lotus have taken a leaf out of Porsches book and they have decided to charge whatever they like...because they know that the punters will pay it anyway. Good business for sure.

The evora has evolved quite a bit though, 134 more bhp than the original, much lighter, much improved gear change, easier to ger in and out of

[Matt Bird]

bigmowley said:

996GT3_Matt said:

bigmowley said:

Great test. I’ve got an R8 RWS, had a 981 GT4 and got a 718 Spyder. Like the look of the Alpine and might jump into one later, my current lightweight thrills are from a S1 Elise.
Agree with all of your comments but for me the R8 is head and shoulders above a GT4. For pure theatre and excitement it’s the one, the GT4, great as it is, is just a bit mute by comparison.
At the same price point it’s a no brainer. Good luck getting into an RWS though, I think there were only 34 registered during the production run and mine for one is going nowhere.

Very nice stable of cars there buddy!

Thanks, lifetime of dubious man maths and weathering multiple storms from Mrs Bigmowley.

I forgot to mention l have a Megane 275 Cup S as well as a daily so that covers the Alpine engine as well. It’s like a 4 seat Alpine

What a fine collection of cars - bravo!

[Matt Bird]

Helicopter123 said:

A good test and a seriously enjoyable read.

Again, the weakness of the Alpine is highlighted as the gearbox. An auto may be fine for pootling to the shops, but when tackling these driving roads, for fun, then Renault really need to do one with a decent manual box.

The GT4 is already a legend - would love to see a test of one tested as close to list price as possible - ie, a stripper, nothing on it.

As for the R8, that's a supercar. I'm not surprised it's the best. Still amazed to think Audi build these.

Great article.

Thank you! Glad to know it's been well received.

[Matt Bird]

SidewaysSi said:

macky17 said:

Agree with earlier post: Evora conspicuous by its absence. That’s what I’d have - either a used 400 at £50k+ or a discounted 410 at £70kish. They are sublime.

Or an Exige. Would kill the Cayman for fun on road.

It says in the story we asked Lotus for an Exige! No new press cars until March. It'll be in an Alpine test soon.

[Hungrymc]

bcr5784 said:

Hungrymc said:

I totally understand why people question the Evoras price. All I can say is it’s a spectacular drive. The weight is a surprise for a Lotus. And it’s a bigger surprise when you drive it as the sensations are all of a lighter car (it ‘felt’ much lighter and more agile than the 996 911 I had before - I’d have guessed at 200kg lighter, but it was actually heavier - it’s a clever trick Lotus have done there)

The interior... hmm... it’s all the right a-surface materials and the specification reads well but the detail execution isn’t great,... however. It’s a truly wonderful car and a very clever package.

My choice came down to a (secondhand) Evora or an A110 to replace my 981S. I came down on the Alpine side -- the agility swayed it for me (though as you say the Evora does feel lighter than the figures suggest). However I certainly see why others might take an alternative view, especially if the manual gearbox is important to you. I would have chosen a manual Evora, but I'm just as happy with a good DCT (heresy I know!).

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 14th February 09:03

Two cracking cars.... we’re lucky they both exist, and you’re clearly really enjoying the Alpine..... Happy days :-)]

Edited by Hungrymc on Friday 14th February 15:07

[bcr5784]

Matt Bird said:

It says in the story we asked Lotus for an Exige! No new press cars until March. It'll be in an Alpine test soon.

Seems to me a pretty pointless test to do. The Exige is a far better track car, the Alpine a far better all rounder. I really can't conceive of anyone agonising between the two. That said I'd say the same between the 3 in this comparison - or an Alpine vs a 570S McLaren which I've also seen. Still anything that keeps Alpine and Lotus in the buying public eye can only be good as far as I am concerned.

[CABC]

i quite like considered and well written comparisons of different cars. many people have several cars and also cross-shop in seemingly weird ways in search of something different. An MX5 or Elise are relatively cheap but give so much return on the fun stakes you sometimes wonder how much do you have to spend to get that fun back in a 'more serious' car?
i can see the R8 as desirable, but it doesn't come from a set of objective requirements in the same way you choose a family hatchback.

[CABC]

Matt, how about lining up 25 cars from hot hatches to supercars and then have the testers choose a garage of 3 or a garage of 200k?

and can i come along too...

[boyse7en]

Nice to see my local roads being used by some quality machinery.

I'll take the Alpine please. Simply because it looks the best size/power for a fun trip across the moors. Anything too wide just get stuck.

[Helicopter123]

nickfrog said:

Helicopter123 said:

It's worse than that though, I like the Renault Alpine but because I would prefer a manual gearbox in a sportscar, and ideally a naturally aspirated high revving engine, you would think I'd just called someone's baby ugly.

This is all in your head. People generally are more open minded than you. Remember you called the Alpine a hot hatch in a frock (correct me if I am wrong) by calling it the Megane's TT, people just laughed and surely you can see why, they were not upset, they just found it hilarious.

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 14th February 09:38

That wasn't me, sorry.

[anonymous-user]

bcr5784 said:

The Exige is a far better track car, the Alpine a far better all rounder. I really can't conceive of anyone agonising between the two. That said I'd say the same between the 3 in this comparison - or an Alpine vs a 570S McLaren which I've also seen. Still anything that keeps Alpine and Lotus in the buying public eye can only be good as far as I am concerned.

That sounds a good summary to me.

[bigmowley]

Matt Bird said:

bigmowley said:

996GT3_Matt said:

bigmowley said:

Great test. I’ve got an R8 RWS, had a 981 GT4 and got a 718 Spyder. Like the look of the Alpine and might jump into one later, my current lightweight thrills are from a S1 Elise.
Agree with all of your comments but for me the R8 is head and shoulders above a GT4. For pure theatre and excitement it’s the one, the GT4, great as it is, is just a bit mute by comparison.
At the same price point it’s a no brainer. Good luck getting into an RWS though, I think there were only 34 registered during the production run and mine for one is going nowhere.

Very nice stable of cars there buddy!

Thanks, lifetime of dubious man maths and weathering multiple storms from Mrs Bigmowley.

I forgot to mention l have a Megane 275 Cup S as well as a daily so that covers the Alpine engine as well. It’s like a 4 seat Alpine

What a fine collection of cars - bravo!

Thanks Matt, I am a lucky boy gratuitous garage shot



Ignore the mower

[DoubleD]

bigmowley said:

Thanks Matt, I am a lucky boy gratuitous garage shot



Ignore the mower

Perfect set up. Is the mini running?

[bigmowley]

DoubleD said:

bigmowley said:

Thanks Matt, I am a lucky boy gratuitous garage shot



Ignore the mower

Perfect set up. Is the mini running?

Of course, it’s a 1976 1275GT with a genuine 56K miles. It was my Mums daily until she stopped driving. It’s got a lovely 1293cc hill climb and sprint engine out of my old car that my dad fitted about 30 years ago. I’ve got the original engine in the shed. It’s about 100bhp and goes like stink. Both my parents have passed away now so it’s a keeper forever. I drive it from time to time and feel connected to my upbringing.