RE: BMW M340i Touring vs. Audi S4 Avant

[Burwood]

silentbrown said:

225 said:

Yes yes a leon cupra estate, golf r estate, vrs etc are all cracking cars at a chunk less but for the real price we pay on PCPs what else is there to get a 6pot petrol with family duties?

Porsche Macan S maybe?

Petrol turbo 3.0 V6 + DSG, and the "list price" of £49,300 appears to be cheaper than either of these.

Admittedly discounts are rare and you'll get stung on options, but better residuals should help. Be interesting to see what PCP deals are like...

PCP deals will be relatively expensive due to: Minimum it will be a 55k car, Porsche don't offer low interest rates (9%?) vs BMW standard sub 5, sub 3 etc. Porsche typically build in a decent buffer on the GFV so they can sell you another car whereas BMW will cut is very fine and may even get it wrong on some models. You can but the 340 for 10k off of list. You'll get nothing (floor mast?) on the Porsche.

If you're going to compare the macaw, you may as well look at the X3 M40i which has a much higher residual than the 3 series sedan and may work out cheaper to run

Edited by Burwood on Monday 17th February 10:13

[silentbrown]

Burwood said:

PCP deals will be relatively expensive due to: Minimum it will be a 55k car, Porsche don't offer low interest rates (9%?) vs BMW standard sub 5, sub 3 etc. Porsche typically build in a decent buffer on the GFV so they can sell you another car whereas BMW will cut is very fine and may even get it wrong on some models. You can but the 340 for 10k off of list. You'll get nothing (floor mast?) on the Porsche.

If you're going to compare the macaw, you may as well look at the X3 M40i which has a much higher residual than the 3 series sedan and may work out cheaper to run

Edited by Burwood on Monday 17th February 10:13

Macan S, 36 x £402 with £11K (ouch!) deposit (6.4%), 10K p/a

https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/macan/macan-mode...

Can't find a strictly comparable M340i touring deal, but I guess about 48 x £499, £5K deposit?

FleetNews data shows very similar residuals for both X3 and 340i touring? Depreciation is £1/mile on 3 years/30K, vs 61p on the Macan.

[Jarama s]

Economy ?

[Burwood]

silentbrown said:

Burwood said:

PCP deals will be relatively expensive due to: Minimum it will be a 55k car, Porsche don't offer low interest rates (9%?) vs BMW standard sub 5, sub 3 etc. Porsche typically build in a decent buffer on the GFV so they can sell you another car whereas BMW will cut is very fine and may even get it wrong on some models. You can but the 340 for 10k off of list. You'll get nothing (floor mast?) on the Porsche.

If you're going to compare the macaw, you may as well look at the X3 M40i which has a much higher residual than the 3 series sedan and may work out cheaper to run

Edited by Burwood on Monday 17th February 10:13

Macan S, 36 x £402 with £11K (ouch!) deposit (6.4%), 10K p/a

https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/macan/macan-mode...

Can't find a strictly comparable M340i touring deal, but I guess about 48 x £499, £5K deposit?

FleetNews data shows very similar residuals for both X3 and 340i touring? Depreciation is £1/mile on 3 years/30K, vs 61p on the Macan.

An X3 M40 has a 48 month BMW GFV of 25K vs 18k on the 3 series equivalent. Very similar costs to PCP if I recall correctly.

[996jim]

[redacted]

[silentbrown]

Burwood said:

An X3 M40 has a 48 month BMW GFV of 25K vs 18k on the 3 series equivalent. Very similar costs to PCP if I recall correctly.

Looks like higher GFV, but less discount available on X3's?

This one at £600/month x 48 years, for example. https://www.dicklovett.co.uk/bmw/finance-deals/x-s...

[Burwood]

silentbrown said:

Burwood said:

An X3 M40 has a 48 month BMW GFV of 25K vs 18k on the 3 series equivalent. Very similar costs to PCP if I recall correctly.

Looks like higher GFV, but less discount available on X3's?

This one at £600/month x 48 years, for example. https://www.dicklovett.co.uk/bmw/finance-deals/x-s...

Except you can get 8k discounts on the X3, Lovett is offering half that. Standard it's a smudge over 500 on a 1+47 profile, which given the much higher GFV on the X3M is how they managed £530

[thiscocks]

harleywilma said:

All seems a bit of a pointless exercice now and for that sort of money, electric 250 mile range weapons are coming thick and fast...

With nowhere to charge them.

Give me a 3.0 diesel any day.

[edwheels]

Both have electronic / non analogue dashboards - I hoped these would be a passing fad (like 3D TVs), but I fear think they will be here to stay.
Both have oversized front grills - the BMW in particular is not to my taste. I don't like the way they are going on all the latest models here.

However both are very capable and useful cars - good points far outweighing bad ... 5 years ago I would have really liked to own either one of these...

... but I would be very relucant to spend anywhere near much as this on any ICE car these days - and I know this is illogical as they are very efficient and fairly green for the performance offered and will be sold on / returned on a PCP and forgotton about long before 2035 nears... but who knows what new laws will be introduced over the coming years? Had they been Hybrids with a 30-50 mile range, maybe more a car for the current times - the transition period we are inevitably now in between the ICE and the 100% EV... ?

[Wills2]

thiscocks said:

harleywilma said:

All seems a bit of a pointless exercice now and for that sort of money, electric 250 mile range weapons are coming thick and fast...

With nowhere to charge them.

Give me a 3.0 diesel any day.

They are hardly coming thick and fast either, I can't think of a mid sized "weapon" EV estate on sale in the UK.

[Burwood]

Wills2 said:

thiscocks said:

harleywilma said:

All seems a bit of a pointless exercice now and for that sort of money, electric 250 mile range weapons are coming thick and fast...

With nowhere to charge them.

Give me a 3.0 diesel any day.

They are hardly coming thick and fast either, I can't think of a mid sized "weapon" EV estate on sale in the UK.

This. An EV SUV will suit my wife needs perfectly. The ID.4 looks good on paper. However it won't be ready by year end and i'm not going to be a guinea pig. We will look at a half way house hybrid (probably). In 2 years things will have moved on. And 250 miles is not enough. Id want a usable 350-400

Edited by Burwood on Tuesday 18th February 11:42

[Dave-f28iw]

I have a F31 340i Touring. In many ways it is an excellent car. Couple of things. I find the steering utterly hopeless without feeling and it makes the car difficult to place especially when pushing on. The MPG quoted for the new model is hilariously optimistic! I honestly can't believe that it has improved so significantly from my 2016 car. Mixed driving over 30K miles is 29MPG according to the computer. The comments about missing out on gaps in traffic is true to the previous generation. IMO it is more down to the gearbox than the power availabled. At low speed if you suddenly decide to plant your foot the gearbox seems to hesitate before deciding what to do. Drive modes don't help either. Would I buy a new one ..... I don't think so. Some of the design aspects I like and others just appear clumsy / out of proportion.

[Wills2]

Burwood said:

Wills2 said:

thiscocks said:

harleywilma said:

All seems a bit of a pointless exercice now and for that sort of money, electric 250 mile range weapons are coming thick and fast...

With nowhere to charge them.

Give me a 3.0 diesel any day.

They are hardly coming thick and fast either, I can't think of a mid sized "weapon" EV estate on sale in the UK.

This. An EV SUV will suit my wife needs perfectly. The ID.4 looks good on paper. However it won't be ready by year end and i'm not going to be a guinea pig. We will look at a half way house hybrid (probably). In 2 years things will have moved on. And 250 miles is not enough. Id want a usable 350-400

Edited by Burwood on Tuesday 18th February 11:42

Harry Metcalf's review of the ipace was eye opening as that had a real world range of 150 miles in his hands leaving a 30-40 mile reserve which you would.

[Court_S]

Wills2 said:

Burwood said:

Wills2 said:

thiscocks said:

harleywilma said:

All seems a bit of a pointless exercice now and for that sort of money, electric 250 mile range weapons are coming thick and fast...

With nowhere to charge them.

Give me a 3.0 diesel any day.

They are hardly coming thick and fast either, I can't think of a mid sized "weapon" EV estate on sale in the UK.

This. An EV SUV will suit my wife needs perfectly. The ID.4 looks good on paper. However it won't be ready by year end and i'm not going to be a guinea pig. We will look at a half way house hybrid (probably). In 2 years things will have moved on. And 250 miles is not enough. Id want a usable 350-400

Edited by Burwood on Tuesday 18th February 11:42

Harry Metcalf's review of the ipace was eye opening as that had a real world range of 150 miles in his hands leaving a 30-40 mile reserve which you would.

It was indeed. Kind of proved that the infrastructure isn’t quite there yet.

[Court_S]

Dave-f28iw said:

I have a F31 340i Touring. In many ways it is an excellent car. Couple of things. I find the steering utterly hopeless without feeling and it makes the car difficult to place especially when pushing on. The MPG quoted for the new model is hilariously optimistic! I honestly can't believe that it has improved so significantly from my 2016 car. Mixed driving over 30K miles is 29MPG according to the computer. The comments about missing out on gaps in traffic is true to the previous generation. IMO it is more down to the gearbox than the power availabled. At low speed if you suddenly decide to plant your foot the gearbox seems to hesitate before deciding what to do. Drive modes don't help either. Would I buy a new one ..... I don't think so. Some of the design aspects I like and others just appear clumsy / out of proportion.

The article quoted the wrong fuel economy figure pretty sure it should be 33mpg, so not a million miles out. My M140i is averaging 30.6mpg since June last year.

[Burwood]

Court_S said:

Wills2 said:

Burwood said:

Wills2 said:

thiscocks said:

harleywilma said:

All seems a bit of a pointless exercice now and for that sort of money, electric 250 mile range weapons are coming thick and fast...

With nowhere to charge them.

Give me a 3.0 diesel any day.

They are hardly coming thick and fast either, I can't think of a mid sized "weapon" EV estate on sale in the UK.

This. An EV SUV will suit my wife needs perfectly. The ID.4 looks good on paper. However it won't be ready by year end and i'm not going to be a guinea pig. We will look at a half way house hybrid (probably). In 2 years things will have moved on. And 250 miles is not enough. Id want a usable 350-400

Edited by Burwood on Tuesday 18th February 11:42

Harry Metcalf's review of the ipace was eye opening as that had a real world range of 150 miles in his hands leaving a 30-40 mile reserve which you would.

It was indeed. Kind of proved that the infrastructure isn’t quite there yet.

I realise things are better but I had an E-Golf for a day which was cool but at full charge I set off with 100 miles showing-within 5 miles it gobbled 20. The range jumped all over the place. My wife took it out for a spin showing 40 and within a mile she called me to say it showed 25 left. Gave me the sts.

[Court_S]

Burwood said:

I realise things are better but I had an E-Golf for a day which was cool but at full charge I set off with 100 miles showing-within 5 miles it gobbled 20. The range jumped all over the place. My wife took it out for a spin showing 40 and within a mile she called me to say it showed 25 left. Gave me the sts.

Few guys at work have jut got e-Golf’s on the company car scheme because they’re so bloody cheap as of April. They generally seem to be liking them although the range isn’t great and one of them got caught out travelling from Nottingham to York the other week. He had to charge, but the fast chargers were taken so his only option was a slow one....three hours later, sat in a service station and he still didn’t have quite enough charge to get home, so had to stop again 10 miles away and charge for a few minutes. He said that was the first time he realised how he’d taken refuelling an ICE car fore granted.

[R400TVR]

Some of these comments really sum up what I believe has gone wrong with modern cars, especially BMW. I've had a 540i E34, a Z3 3.0, and a 130i, and my Grandfather had others ranging from a 330d to the original 7,6,and 8 series. The styling tries too hard, and does not look anything like as classy as the older models. Too many vents and add-ons especially at the rear, with those odd reflectors they all seem to be saddled with. The interior is the same. The older cars were simple with the major controls being easy to use without taking the eyes from the road. There was no need to adjust the mode of the car to make the handling work, or to make the gearbox /engine work.
It seems that cars have taken a major step backwards in what made them right in the first place. Give me an E46 over a new 3, or even my old Audi 90 20v over a new A4.
It's also sad when people on PH say that a car is great because it has loads of low down torque, a DSG, and doesn't need to be revved.