RE: BMW M340i Touring vs. Audi S4 Avant
Discussion
Limpet said:
Cringeworthy isn’t it? Like many remarks made on PH, I suspect those doing it wouldn’t dream of airing such views directly in front of people. Not without running the risk of eating tomorrow’s lunch through a straw, anyway.
Completely agree - I ignore it but it’s about time someone mentioned it justa1972 said:
Arsecati said:
I've a 3.0TDi A6 Avant, and will regularly get well in to the 40's on longer trips, and even with town/city driving, NEVER get below 32/33 combined (and that's with around 260-270bhp). You may want to get your A250 looked at. :/
Yes but yours is diesel ? Mine and the BM in this arrival are petrol ?On a long journey I can get 40+ but running around no chance !
So, they have the price wrong, the MPG wrong, the CO2 wrong...
chelme said:
BMW must be designing cars for another market...they are so ugly now, I am struggling to think of another reason the management would allow it, looking at their back catalogue of cars all the way back to the 70s.
It is rather strange. I would hazard that they don’t make a single product today that could be considered elegant. They have a couple of models that look nice but certainly not stylish and definitely more towards the Barry end of the visual spectrum. To me they are a brand that is basically the German equivalent of Ford. A manufacturer of a range of generic wagons for the youngster, housewife, commuter, minicab driver, family etc with a few halo models of interest. The real difference is that with BMW you can obtain a wagon with a very nice engine in classic cylinder configuration and in classic drivetrain configuration which makes them worth paying more than an equivalent Ford. But Ford has managed to put some nice lines and looks in their cars and their products are considerably less visually jarring.
To be honest, now the 1 series is FWD and doesn’t have an i6 option then I don’t see the relevance of it as a product other than just another generic fwd shopping car to be haggled over along with all the other boxes for sale. The 3 series seems to now mostly be about the 4wd so again, if you want a high performance 4wd car of this size I’m not sure what BMW offers you other than again haggling on the monthlies v an Audi. When it was just RWD it had a clear, defined niche and was pretty much on its own as they drive better than Mercs whereas the Merc had more theatre and brash vulgarity to offer as do the 5.0 Jags.
The 7 series doesn’t really matter as you only ever sit in the back and it’s gone from sight as soon as you get out.
The x Range has always struggled a bit. The x5 has always been ok albeit like most BMW’s over rubbers in a Carlos Fandango meets urban housing estate chic way but the 1 and the 3 have had some really odd and ugly iterations.
And then there is something I’ve seen around a few times now which looks like a 1 size crossover sort of thing for the disabled and pensioner market or third world. It’s one of the ugliest cars around but stands out mainly because it has a BMW badge.
Ultimately, I guess they are focussing in non Western tastes for some of the products?
The only BMW I have ever had was a z4 E89 with a straight 6. 2.5 litres 200 hp no turbo. Good cars and looked great, Id take an E89 Z4 over the new Z4. but hats just me. The interior of the Z4 was a step above the interiors of the other BMW models back when it first came out. The interiors I always found to be a bit bland.
The Z was a toy and most of my driving needs were met by diesel A6, first one was a 2.7 tdi C6 manual front wheel drive and it did what I needed it was both reliable and economical.
there is something about a larger capacity diesel V6, it has a much nicer idle and it has good performance when the gearing is right. The V6 engine that Audi use sees service in many models within VAG, its been well developed and the bitdi was being designed for Porsche models until diesel gate saw that buried. now they are using the engine in performance audi's the thing with those engines is that the performance is easily accessible and its not through revving the b
ks of the engine. who wants to be doing the racetrack style on the roads these days, your just after covering ground quickly and without drama.... 4 wheel drive and 330hp will allow you to do that and the torque providing that huge shove mid range is astounding.
always enjoyed a decent drive in the A6, very competent and road holding was sure without any rear wheel twitchiness that came with rear drive bmws…. would you want to cover a few hundred miles in crappy conditions with a bm or would you prefer low rev torque and 4 wheel drive security ?
The Z was a toy and most of my driving needs were met by diesel A6, first one was a 2.7 tdi C6 manual front wheel drive and it did what I needed it was both reliable and economical.
there is something about a larger capacity diesel V6, it has a much nicer idle and it has good performance when the gearing is right. The V6 engine that Audi use sees service in many models within VAG, its been well developed and the bitdi was being designed for Porsche models until diesel gate saw that buried. now they are using the engine in performance audi's the thing with those engines is that the performance is easily accessible and its not through revving the b
ks of the engine. who wants to be doing the racetrack style on the roads these days, your just after covering ground quickly and without drama.... 4 wheel drive and 330hp will allow you to do that and the torque providing that huge shove mid range is astounding.always enjoyed a decent drive in the A6, very competent and road holding was sure without any rear wheel twitchiness that came with rear drive bmws…. would you want to cover a few hundred miles in crappy conditions with a bm or would you prefer low rev torque and 4 wheel drive security ?
DonkeyApple said:
I was looking at the S4, the 340 and the C43 before Christmas. Needed a new family knockabout and the main criteria was that it had to have some oomph for when not being used for family duties. Had decided on an estate as I already have SUVs and a hatchback covering other requirements.
I knocked the Merc into touch quite quickly. I know myself well enough that with a C43 is always have kicked myself for not buying the C63 but I don’t want the running costs of one and the performance is overkill for the requirements. I also didn’t really like the interior of the Merc, possibly because I’ve spent years being driven around in them as minicabs.
It was a tough call between the petrol S4 and the 340. I didn’t really want another BMW. I thought the interior of the Audi was nice enough but the BMW was edging it just on being a i6 rather than a V6. I just have a preference for the i6 and always see the V6 as being the accountants solution over the engineers.
In the end I saw a 3 year old 340 at the dealers and also took that out for a drive. For me it was better than the other two newer cars. It was just things like the older style dials and just the general feel that it had more in common with cars of old rather than trying to be a car of the future. Probably a big turn off for some buyers.
I found two cars local to me, one fully loaded and one with pretty much nothing extra and a general dislike of electric seats and other stuff that arguably isn’t made better by stuffing with electrics meant that I ended up grabbing a 3 year old 340 with nothing on it for £20k. A perfect hack for the next 6-8 years.
3 months in and I’m pleased with it. It’s nice and generic, doesn’t stand out. It’s quiet and smooth for the daily chores but the engine is very enjoyable when the need arises. It still has that bafflingly annoying BMW trait of assuming the only possible scenario when you slow down to 10mph is that you must be stopping. No contemplation of the reality that you are simply turning a corner or approaching a junction so when you subsequently accelerate it has a whopping hesitation as you’ve blown its little mind bit other than that it doesn’t suffer from the Dunning Kruger of so many modern cars which are thick as mince but think they are intellectual powerhouses endlessing adding 2+2 and arriving at 4.1, 4.5 or 5.
That last part about the car ignoring throttle inputs is why I'm over the moon with my Tesla M3P. Forget climate change, forget pedo tweets, forget range anxiety. The most important part about buying a Tesla is that when you press the right pedal, it goes. Instantly, like a 997 GT3 RS that was already in second gear before you pressed the pedal. It's strangely liberating to have a car that just does what you ask, the moment you ask. I won't be going back. I knocked the Merc into touch quite quickly. I know myself well enough that with a C43 is always have kicked myself for not buying the C63 but I don’t want the running costs of one and the performance is overkill for the requirements. I also didn’t really like the interior of the Merc, possibly because I’ve spent years being driven around in them as minicabs.
It was a tough call between the petrol S4 and the 340. I didn’t really want another BMW. I thought the interior of the Audi was nice enough but the BMW was edging it just on being a i6 rather than a V6. I just have a preference for the i6 and always see the V6 as being the accountants solution over the engineers.
In the end I saw a 3 year old 340 at the dealers and also took that out for a drive. For me it was better than the other two newer cars. It was just things like the older style dials and just the general feel that it had more in common with cars of old rather than trying to be a car of the future. Probably a big turn off for some buyers.
I found two cars local to me, one fully loaded and one with pretty much nothing extra and a general dislike of electric seats and other stuff that arguably isn’t made better by stuffing with electrics meant that I ended up grabbing a 3 year old 340 with nothing on it for £20k. A perfect hack for the next 6-8 years.
3 months in and I’m pleased with it. It’s nice and generic, doesn’t stand out. It’s quiet and smooth for the daily chores but the engine is very enjoyable when the need arises. It still has that bafflingly annoying BMW trait of assuming the only possible scenario when you slow down to 10mph is that you must be stopping. No contemplation of the reality that you are simply turning a corner or approaching a junction so when you subsequently accelerate it has a whopping hesitation as you’ve blown its little mind bit other than that it doesn’t suffer from the Dunning Kruger of so many modern cars which are thick as mince but think they are intellectual powerhouses endlessing adding 2+2 and arriving at 4.1, 4.5 or 5.
Court_S said:
I really, really like them. I think they manage to bridge the gap between modern and analogue well in my opinion.
The physical buttons and idrive controller outweigh my dislike of the new digital dials. I could live with those dials and have the buttons etc instead of touchscreens.
It’s one of the things I like about the layout on the BMW which is that you can change any relevant setting without needing to look at the controls. I just don’t see touchscreens in cars as a technological step forward but rather an intellectual step back to cater for modern consumer expectations. The physical buttons and idrive controller outweigh my dislike of the new digital dials. I could live with those dials and have the buttons etc instead of touchscreens.
I can’t see BMW holding out against that fashion unless we reach peak touchscreen w
kery in the next year or so and the fashion for installing slower, less efficient, less practical solutions than what existed already reverses back towards common sense. But this would require a complete rebranding of what buttons and dials are. They would have to be relaunched as haptic control devices or anything to avoid people thinking they were just buttons or dials which are things for horrible smelly old people who have destroyed the planet with their rampant non consumerism. 
In short, I like the intuitive controls for the cars but fully recognise that I’m usually, arguably never, at the vanguard of consumer trends.
nicfaz said:
That last part about the car ignoring throttle inputs is why I'm over the moon with my Tesla M3P. Forget climate change, forget pedo tweets, forget range anxiety. The most important part about buying a Tesla is that when you press the right pedal, it goes. Instantly, like a 997 GT3 RS that was already in second gear before you pressed the pedal. It's strangely liberating to have a car that just does what you ask, the moment you ask. I won't be going back.
It’s a massive advantage in that regard. Auto boxes have been on a trend of adding more and more gears to try and achieve near constant velocity plus they have to give them a map that compromises across a wide range of consumer expectations. I can’t get in with the Tesla products yet. I found the S understated awfully and driving it reminded me of 90s Audis and at the end of the day it’s too big. The 3 seems to drive better but it’s still far from agile so while I think it’s a much better car for say commuting it then doesn’t reward when you get a chance to actually drive. I also just don’t like having to change controls via a cumbersome touchscreen and clearly prefer BMWs much more 20th century retention of switches and knobs etc so in reality Tesla is going to be a product I’m likely to never really want. Plus, £50-£100k and the interior is very turn of the century in overall quality. It isn’t a brand that appeals to the things I value but I can clearly see the overall appeal.
I did look briefly at the iPace as an EV would suit me perfectly in terms of usage but I ultimately shied away for the same reason the XFR estate wasn’t on my final short list and that was that I simply don’t want the hassle of dealer trips on what’s meant to be a family hack/runabout.
Arsecati said:
justa1972 said:
Don’t want to come across all What Car but when are you ever going to see 37.2 mpg in the BMW ???
I know all MPG figures are rubbish but surely your not going to get anywhere near that ?
In comparison I have a weedy A250 and only manage 33 mpg ?!
I've a 3.0TDi A6 Avant, and will regularly get well in to the 40's on longer trips, and even with town/city driving, NEVER get below 32/33 combined (and that's with around 260-270bhp). You may want to get your A250 looked at. :/I know all MPG figures are rubbish but surely your not going to get anywhere near that ?
In comparison I have a weedy A250 and only manage 33 mpg ?!
cerb4.5lee said:
carparkno1 said:
There was a lovely little point in time a year or so again when I got my 440i where you could spec a digital speedo for £250. The whole thing is digital and has three different modes, but retains circular dials like the analogue ones. Perfect mix for me. The new speedo / rev counters in this 340i look bonkers and counter-intuitive.
The facelift 640d had something similar to that(3 modes) in it and I really liked the way it looked. Mine was a 2012 model so it just had the standard set up. This new set up I don't like at all in the 3 series for sure. Bloody hell there are some right whiners on here.
You've got modern, very fast family wagons that are over 300bhp, sub 5 seconds, all the kit, attainable on decent deals for many, safe and looks wise not exactly a Ford Scorpio and yet theres a whinge about everything.
I swear that some people are lining up with their issues before they've seen a review, seen the figures and probably before theyve seen a picture.
You've got modern, very fast family wagons that are over 300bhp, sub 5 seconds, all the kit, attainable on decent deals for many, safe and looks wise not exactly a Ford Scorpio and yet theres a whinge about everything.
I swear that some people are lining up with their issues before they've seen a review, seen the figures and probably before theyve seen a picture.
DonkeyApple said:
3 months in and I’m pleased with it. It’s nice and generic, doesn’t stand out. It’s quiet and smooth for the daily chores but the engine is very enjoyable when the need arises. It still has that bafflingly annoying BMW trait of assuming the only possible scenario when you slow down to 10mph is that you must be stopping. No contemplation of the reality that you are simply turning a corner or approaching a junction so when you subsequently accelerate it has a whopping hesitation as you’ve blown its little mind bit other than that it doesn’t suffer from the Dunning Kruger of so many modern cars which are thick as mince but think they are intellectual powerhouses endlessing adding 2+2 and arriving at 4.1, 4.5 or 5.
Agree with this, I automatically switch mine into sport as I approach a junction or roundabout - disables the stop-start and means you are in the right gear to pull away quickly.Limpet said:
Cringeworthy isn’t it? Like many remarks made on PH, I suspect those doing it wouldn’t dream of airing such views directly in front of people. Not without running the risk of eating tomorrow’s lunch through a straw, anyway.
Irony being, that those who make these sort of statements, clearly think that they are of a 'higher class' than those they seek to demean, yet I honestly cannot think of a greater demonstration of a 'lack of class'. Clearly some unresolved insecurity issues - we should pity them.Notsofastfrank said:
Agree with this, I automatically switch mine into sport as I approach a junction or roundabout - disables the stop-start and means you are in the right gear to pull away quickly.
I’ll try that. You have to do this on this on the 120d just to get it to go round a corner properly as the lag is so shocking that pressing the throttle down as you clear the apex to settle it down does nothing until you’re out of the corner. That’s a ZF6 issue. I had the same on a 130i that was infuriating in the centre of London as you’d put your foot down to take a gap being offered and the hesitation was so immense that the other car would assume you weren’t taking the invitation and start moving on just as your car suddenly decided it was going to leap forward instead of just slowly moving forward when asked perfectly politely. The zF8 programming is infinitely better but that weird stutter at 10mph when you lift off the brake and onto the throttle and completely confuse the car is an annoyance. The only thing is that Indont particularly want to be fancying about with Sport mode every few minutes. But overall it’s just one annoyance in a car that is very good at being a car. It’s as good at trundling around in silence as it is at pressing on down poor surfaces country roads.
justa1972 said:
Don’t want to come across all What Car but when are you ever going to see 37.2 mpg in the BMW ???
I know all MPG figures are rubbish but surely your not going to get anywhere near that ?
In comparison I have a weedy A250 and only manage 33 mpg ?!
It’s actually a pretty efficient engine. My M140i has averaged just shy of 31mpg since I collected it in June. I know all MPG figures are rubbish but surely your not going to get anywhere near that ?
In comparison I have a weedy A250 and only manage 33 mpg ?!
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