Stupid design / difficult repairs caused by "packaging"
Discussion
Muddle238 said:
Not so much a packaging issue but more to do with the manufacturer choice of fixings -
Take the undertray on my previous car for example. There were seven T30 torx fixings, six 10mm hex bolts and three plastic clips. Why couldn't everything be held on with just a single type of fixing? Very fiddly buggering about changing the bit on the ratchet spanner under the car and a first world PITA.
When systems are designed there are teams from manufacturing, service, and finance, as well as design in the ring. There is always a debate and tension between all those disciplines to determine the final part and system outcome.Take the undertray on my previous car for example. There were seven T30 torx fixings, six 10mm hex bolts and three plastic clips. Why couldn't everything be held on with just a single type of fixing? Very fiddly buggering about changing the bit on the ratchet spanner under the car and a first world PITA.
When I worked in a busy garage we would all do our best to avoid the French cars if we could, working on them was always awkward and fiddly, one day I got what what I thought was the shortest of short straws and had to do a clutch on a left hand drive small French car.
It was a doddle compared to the right hand drive equivalent, subframe bolts were installed so they could be removed rather than trapped by something else, there was space to work and access bolts and clips.
It's almost like they deliberately put them together awkward if they are right hand drive.
It was a doddle compared to the right hand drive equivalent, subframe bolts were installed so they could be removed rather than trapped by something else, there was space to work and access bolts and clips.
It's almost like they deliberately put them together awkward if they are right hand drive.
M4cruiser said:
Having recently repaired a washer motor pump, it set me thinking. Why put the whole bottle in the front wheel arch - where it's a lot more difficult to get to it? You can't even easily test the electric connections without removing the wheel arch lining, and breaking some of the plastic clips in the process!
Do you have any more examples!
Another that springs to mind is the lack of a full-sized spare, just for convenience of the designer and CO2 reasons. Ludicrous
The washer tank is usually designed to fit in whatever space is left available after other important bits are packaged because it’s not space critical.Do you have any more examples!
Another that springs to mind is the lack of a full-sized spare, just for convenience of the designer and CO2 reasons. Ludicrous
Headlamp design is another matter, the headlamp is integral to the front end safety in pedestrian crashes, so we have to set them forward of the car on brackets that can collapse in an impact to reduce the loading on little Johnnys femur as he gets crashed into.
Believe it or not when we design cars nothing is done on purpose to make it difficult for the end user, however we’re juggling regulation, styling, crash regs, design constraints, time and cost in order to develop the things.
Edited by Cyder on Sunday 16th February 20:10
A Winner Is You said:
ZX10R NIN said:
As others have said changing a headlight bulb is a joke.
We can design cars that drive themselves - you really wouldn't think it would be beyond the talents of car designers to make a headlight unit that could unclip.M4cruiser said:
Good point, but it's odd that many "French hatchbacks" (i.e. shopping / commuter cars) have bolts not studs. Changing a wheel on my OH's car is a pain, the rear ones will just about stay in place whilst you rotate it to line up the holes, but the front ones won't.
These off ebay or just buy a suitably threaded bolt & cut its head off.https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_t...
Getragdogleg said:
When I worked in a busy garage we would all do our best to avoid the French cars if we could, working on them was always awkward and fiddly, one day I got what what I thought was the shortest of short straws and had to do a clutch on a left hand drive small French car.
It was a doddle compared to the right hand drive equivalent, subframe bolts were installed so they could be removed rather than trapped by something else, there was space to work and access bolts and clips.
It's almost like they deliberately put them together awkward if they are right hand drive.
Revenge for Waterloo.It was a doddle compared to the right hand drive equivalent, subframe bolts were installed so they could be removed rather than trapped by something else, there was space to work and access bolts and clips.
It's almost like they deliberately put them together awkward if they are right hand drive.
cib24 said:
The answer is anything German from BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche.
The Japanese engineer well and think about servicing items. The Germans go really far on the engineering but don't consider practicalities such as replacing a light bulb.
Have done loads of work on my old e39, really easy to get to everything and not had a job where it's taken me longer than I thought it would. Lovely thing to work on. The Japanese engineer well and think about servicing items. The Germans go really far on the engineering but don't consider practicalities such as replacing a light bulb.
My old Passat was nice to work on too, although corroded fasteners were a pain.
Current daily Honda Jazz is a nightmare in comparison. Spark plugs involve removing the entire scuttle and wiper arm assembly before you can even get a socket on the top of a plug. Fuel filter change means taking the bottom half of the dashboard apart along with the centre console. And then you need a special tool to remove the cover on the top of the fuel tank. Same job on the bmw takes about 15 mins...
paintman said:
Getragdogleg said:
When I worked in a busy garage we would all do our best to avoid the French cars if we could, working on them was always awkward and fiddly, one day I got what what I thought was the shortest of short straws and had to do a clutch on a left hand drive small French car.
It was a doddle compared to the right hand drive equivalent, subframe bolts were installed so they could be removed rather than trapped by something else, there was space to work and access bolts and clips.
It's almost like they deliberately put them together awkward if they are right hand drive.
Revenge for Waterloo.It was a doddle compared to the right hand drive equivalent, subframe bolts were installed so they could be removed rather than trapped by something else, there was space to work and access bolts and clips.
It's almost like they deliberately put them together awkward if they are right hand drive.
MX-5 Mk 2.5 with the S-VT engine - changing the oil filter reguired removing the intake manifold or having a 2-post ramp (someone with spindly alien arms is about to tell me I'm wrong 
)
Changing the rear bank of spark plugs on the Vectra C with the turbo V6 required removal of the intake manifold, disconnection of the ECU and finessing fuel lines out of the way. Considering that family of engines was designed for transverse applications, it seemed a pretty big oversight to put the spark plugs (a consumable item) there.
)Changing the rear bank of spark plugs on the Vectra C with the turbo V6 required removal of the intake manifold, disconnection of the ECU and finessing fuel lines out of the way. Considering that family of engines was designed for transverse applications, it seemed a pretty big oversight to put the spark plugs (a consumable item) there.
Thesprucegoose said:
Cold said:
You mean like a Mk1 Range Rover Sport? Two sliding clips and the whole unit can be removed.
the one that needed the body off to change components on the engine?Body off is for turbo as the main problem.
Just to prove it's nothing new: MGBGT. Battery is under the vestigial back seat below a little hatch. Hatch is about a sixteenth of an inch bigger than the battery. How do you get it out? It's heavy and no room for fngers.
Answer- two man job, one (a thin one) lying under the car pushing it up. Of course, if whoever put it in left a cloth handle tied around it, all is good!
I suspect the hatch was big enough for 6 volt batteries, but when they went to 12 volt, battery grew but hatch didn't.
Answer- two man job, one (a thin one) lying under the car pushing it up. Of course, if whoever put it in left a cloth handle tied around it, all is good!
I suspect the hatch was big enough for 6 volt batteries, but when they went to 12 volt, battery grew but hatch didn't.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff