Holden axed by GM
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
It looks like Ford are considering whether the current Mondeo will be replaced.
Saloon cars are dying, unless premium segment.
Nobody wants to buy them new.
Mondeo is a textbook case of the decline in saloon cars, massive seller at launch to almost no sales. murdered by the SUV.Saloon cars are dying, unless premium segment.
Nobody wants to buy them new.
Ford dont even sell cars in the US now (outside the mustang).
andyalan10 said:
Me and MSN "General Motors scraps Holden division, exits right-hand drive markets"
As for question 4, I've seen it, but I have no idea what " primary focus of cooperation" means, and google is not helping.
Is that better?
Andy
Post-Holden, General Motors will cooperate with a brand that is kinda cool. Australians know of it. It's called https://www.hsv.com.au/As for question 4, I've seen it, but I have no idea what " primary focus of cooperation" means, and google is not helping.
Is that better?
Andy
It's true that GM is no longer a mass-market brand in Australia or Europe. It will, however, pursue select segments with niche products that are likely to earn good returns.
So while MSN might be correct in a certain sense, a more judicious use of words is in order. Come on: the factory-built RHD C8 Corvette was given the green light long ago.
There is also the matter of China, arguably the world's most exciting (and LHD) market, where GM is a good performer.
Setting aside, however, the present, we can see that GM is also investing significantly in an autonomous future -- the sort of thing that may eventually become a "winner take most" marketplace not too different in principle from, say, Google or Facebook.
unsprung said:
So while MSN might be correct in a certain sense, a more judicious use of words is in order. Come on: the factory-built RHD C8 Corvette was given the green light long ago.
They've just canned RHD cars and not yet even made customer LHD C8's, you expect RHD ones to be built now?Kawasicki said:
Saloon cars are dying, unless premium segment.
And there is a sort of silver lining to that, isn't there? I mean: For those of us who appreciate a used car, there can be incremental value in choosing a used saloon of non-premium or almost-premium origin. (at least over here in the US)
unsprung said:
Kawasicki said:
Saloon cars are dying, unless premium segment.
And there is a sort of silver lining to that, isn't there? I mean: For those of us who appreciate a used car, there can be incremental value in choosing a used saloon of non-premium or almost-premium origin. (at least over here in the US)
Customers get what they want. I must admit I’m not really a SUV lover... I understand the appeal though. I drive harder/faster than most, so I prefer lower, more aero cars.
PokiGTA said:
Secondly, What they should have done is taken the standard Commodore or Falcon and shrink them around 20-25%, put smaller engines in and sell them in Europe as an option to the A6, E class and 5/7 series. Holden could have asked HSV to make a new Opel/Vauxhall Carlton with a sleeved, supercharged LS3, say around 4-5ltrs, manual gearbox and an LSD in in the rear. They would have sold out on name alone. The Falcon could have done the same. The Barra 4ltr turbo was a brilliant engine despite being a bit of a boat anchor. Not to mention that Ford had access to the AJD turbo diesel V6 that was in the Jag at the time. How many 3ltr TDs with RWD are in Europe? stacks. And undercutting the Germans without compromising the handling and giving a halfway position in luxury would have been very well received. Not to mention a turbo straight 6 with the ability to put out big BHP in a RWD package exactly like the aforementioned Lotus Carlton.
Can't comment about the Australian part, but I'm pretty sure there was absolutely no business case importing Holden to Europe. For the last 20 years nothing sells in the E-segment that is not premium (= German, or maybe Jaguar a bit at some point or Volvo currently). The mainstream offer completely died at the end of the nineties, and that includes the Opel/Vauxhall Omega that is closlely related to the Commodore.So GM really had no point importing any Holden, because they already had the equivalent Opel for once, and secondly they were trying to really launch Cadillac (not to mention Saab that was still alive at the time). So that's pretty busy in the premium or almost premium field..
Same for Ford : they had their hands full with Jaguar and Volvo, so I can't really see what purpose would a Falcon have served (straight 6 or not).
In the end the VXR8, which is quite close to what you're describing was sold in the UK. It was nice for the enthusiasts, but I'm not sure the sales were that high...
RobDickinson said:
unsprung said:
So while MSN might be correct in a certain sense, a more judicious use of words is in order. Come on: the factory-built RHD C8 Corvette was given the green light long ago.
They've just canned RHD cars and not yet even made customer LHD C8's, you expect RHD ones to be built now?Here's my argument in favour of continuing to produce the RHD C8. We can expect this because:
a) The RHD variant is already priced and on sale in Japan (see my post of Sunday 9th February on this page)
b) The mid-engined format of the C8 makes handedness much less of an issue in terms of engineering and cost. And by the way, all of the engineering work has already been done for the RHD C8.
c) Either now or in the recent past are Australian articles which explain that General Motors intends to collaborate with a certain brand (see my post above) to pursue niche segments in Australia.
ETA: In response to your statement, please note: Chevrolet began regular production of the C8 in LHD two weeks ago. See my post of Wednesday 5th February at the link that I include in point (a) above.
Edited by unsprung on Monday 17th February 21:51
Jimmy Recard said:
What do you think the Ford Granada and Vauxhall Omega were?
They were trash. The FG Falcon and VF Commodore, while being giant lugs, were miles better than anything Holden or Ford had ever put together. Im just saying that a smaller version of the same cars with HiPo engines would have sold far better than what they were offering at the end.PokiGTA said:
They were trash. The FG Falcon and VF Commodore, while being giant lugs, were miles better than anything Holden or Ford had ever put together. Im just saying that a smaller version of the same cars with HiPo engines would have sold far better than what they were offering at the end.
Nah. Definitely not in Europe. If the Omega and Granada didn’t make the sales numbers, nor would the Falcon and Commodore. It’s that simple. Really. Pretty much no one wants a Ford or Opel/Holden/Vauxhall saloon that’s a bit bigger than what’s already offered.
Currently in a VFII SV6 and even though it's a shame you could definitely see things heading this way.
I was excited about the new Commodore's launch only to find an Insignia with nothing of the presence the VFII has. If it had been an interpretation of the Commodore I would have likely upgraded but they were sending Holden into a death spiral even back then.
GM only have themselves to blame for the falling sales - customers hasn't lost their appetite for the brand. Having been in a similar situation several years ago I feel for the employees.
I was excited about the new Commodore's launch only to find an Insignia with nothing of the presence the VFII has. If it had been an interpretation of the Commodore I would have likely upgraded but they were sending Holden into a death spiral even back then.
GM only have themselves to blame for the falling sales - customers hasn't lost their appetite for the brand. Having been in a similar situation several years ago I feel for the employees.
I feel for the employees too.
But having visited OZ a couple of times and seen their draconian application of speed limits (with fines doubled on Public Holidays) and confiscation of cars for "hooning" (ask Lewis Hamilton about that) who needs a Monaro or a Maloo in that environment?
Might as well have the boring Hyundai i30 or Camry rentals I had when I was there!
But having visited OZ a couple of times and seen their draconian application of speed limits (with fines doubled on Public Holidays) and confiscation of cars for "hooning" (ask Lewis Hamilton about that) who needs a Monaro or a Maloo in that environment?
Might as well have the boring Hyundai i30 or Camry rentals I had when I was there!
unsprung said:
captain_cynic said:
They weren't as cheap as Mustangs/Camaros so no-one bought them their either.
Sorry, but no. The main reason is that Mustang and Camaro buyers tend not to cross-shop a four-door saloon. Especially one that quite convincingly adopted the innocuous egg-shaped body style designed Down Under.captain_cynic said:
It also didn't help that the engines were horrible American lumps that weren't powerful or fuel efficient.
The units rebadged for the US market as Pontiac and Chevrolet eventually received an LS3 with 415hp / 415 lb-ft. 0 to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds. 10 years ago and older. Those facts are different to the claims you make.
Mr Tidy said:
I feel for the employees too.
But having visited OZ a couple of times and seen their draconian application of speed limits (with fines doubled on Public Holidays) and confiscation of cars for "hooning" (ask Lewis Hamilton about that) who needs a Monaro or a Maloo in that environment?
Might as well have the boring Hyundai i30 or Camry rentals I had when I was there!
You make a very valid point but weirdly Australia is the biggest, if not one of the biggest, markets in the world on a per capita basis for AMG, Audi RS and M cars.But having visited OZ a couple of times and seen their draconian application of speed limits (with fines doubled on Public Holidays) and confiscation of cars for "hooning" (ask Lewis Hamilton about that) who needs a Monaro or a Maloo in that environment?
Might as well have the boring Hyundai i30 or Camry rentals I had when I was there!
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