Holden axed by GM
Discussion
unsprung said:
Bibbs said:
Lots went to the Police, and other Services.
Sadly, relatively few were sold to the police and other services.The Chevrolet Caprice PPV (Police Patrol Vehicle) performed at the top of competitive tests for such cars.
<snip>
sources
https://www.government-fleet.com/138582/gm-to-disc...
https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chevrolet/caprice/...
https://fordauthority.com/fmc/ford-motor-company-s...
Edited by unsprung on Tuesday 18th February 17:36
unsprung said:
Bibbs said:
Also, the US had import limits (IIRC 3000 cars pa) that stopped them selling more.
Sorry... Unfortunately, that's not accurate. Pontiac GTO (VZ Monaro)
10,000 units sold p.a. achieved multiple times
Pontiac G8 (VE Commodore)
23,000 units sold p.a.
Chevrolet SS (VF Commodore)
4,000 units sold p.a.
<snip>
sources
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/pontiac/...
https://www.autonews.com/article/20070219/SUB/7021...
https://leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/gm-confirms-rw...
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/pontiac/...
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/chevrole...
I do miss my HSV on occasion. Great fun when pushing on. Rebranded Opels were not really going to cut it in Aus, especially combined with sending $150m of Tax payer money to the USA (but looking at the details above, I'm probably wrong on that too).
Kawasicki said:
Both cars were developed by extremely experienced Australian based engineering teams.
I can speak for the Ford team as I worked on the FG Falcon project. There was pretty much no USA involvement. So to say they were “essentially American” is wrong. From driving feel, they were much, much closer to European cars.
Nice job, Kawasicki I can speak for the Ford team as I worked on the FG Falcon project. There was pretty much no USA involvement. So to say they were “essentially American” is wrong. From driving feel, they were much, much closer to European cars.
Did you work on the FPV Falcon GT and F6 Typhoon cars? I understand they were engineered by Prodrive and were the chief rival to the HSV/Vauxhall VXR8 GTS - all of them truly great cars. Anyone who mocks them has no idea how good they actually are. Around Castle Combe they're as quick as a BMW M4 Competiton Pack.
While not everyone's cup of tea, I respect these cars and very happy they existed; variety is the spice of life.
I would love to own a HSV or FPV car in the near-future.
RS wagon is a 2.0T Fwd
RSV wagon is a v6 3.6 AWD
Having driven all of these (and the VF before) I can assure you the ZB ( latest version) commodore is miles ahead equipment, cabin and technology wise.
The rebaged insignia thing is trotted out by those who haven't driven one or those too blinkered / rose tinted to realise that the VF was an old car underneath and it lacked modern equipment.
Yes the VF was a V8, yes it was RWD, yes you could do smoking burnouts and drifts - but also in Australia if you do that then someone will either dob you in and you'll lose your licence under anti-hoon laws or you'll get seen doing it, or you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway so it wont happen anyway.
Most of the time, SS drivers use all the power of an SS to drag off a set of traffic lights - all the way to a heady 100kmh!!! ( typical metro area speed limit for a freeway).
A lot of the time they fluff the take off and an AWD ZB will eat them alive as the AWD system just grips and goes.
My feedback on the VF/ZB thing is that the VF was an old car which needed updating and the ZB did that - if you want a VF they are still available 2nd hand and are appreciating in value so get one ASAP, the ZB's will not likely be a desirable car in the future - which is a shame really because they are superior in just about every way - especially the handling.
RSV wagon is a v6 3.6 AWD
Having driven all of these (and the VF before) I can assure you the ZB ( latest version) commodore is miles ahead equipment, cabin and technology wise.
The rebaged insignia thing is trotted out by those who haven't driven one or those too blinkered / rose tinted to realise that the VF was an old car underneath and it lacked modern equipment.
Yes the VF was a V8, yes it was RWD, yes you could do smoking burnouts and drifts - but also in Australia if you do that then someone will either dob you in and you'll lose your licence under anti-hoon laws or you'll get seen doing it, or you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway so it wont happen anyway.
Most of the time, SS drivers use all the power of an SS to drag off a set of traffic lights - all the way to a heady 100kmh!!! ( typical metro area speed limit for a freeway).
A lot of the time they fluff the take off and an AWD ZB will eat them alive as the AWD system just grips and goes.
My feedback on the VF/ZB thing is that the VF was an old car which needed updating and the ZB did that - if you want a VF they are still available 2nd hand and are appreciating in value so get one ASAP, the ZB's will not likely be a desirable car in the future - which is a shame really because they are superior in just about every way - especially the handling.
hman said:
RS wagon is a 2.0T Fwd
RSV wagon is a v6 3.6 AWD
Having driven all of these (and the VF before) I can assure you the ZB ( latest version) commodore is miles ahead equipment, cabin and technology wise.
The rebaged insignia thing is trotted out by those who haven't driven one or those too blinkered / rose tinted to realise that the VF was an old car underneath and it lacked modern equipment.
Yes the VF was a V8, yes it was RWD, yes you could do smoking burnouts and drifts - but also in Australia if you do that then someone will either dob you in and you'll lose your licence under anti-hoon laws or you'll get seen doing it, or you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway so it wont happen anyway.
I generally don't like FWD or AWD cars, I drove my VE hard. Only got points once, and that was the day I drove the car home from collecting it.RSV wagon is a v6 3.6 AWD
Having driven all of these (and the VF before) I can assure you the ZB ( latest version) commodore is miles ahead equipment, cabin and technology wise.
The rebaged insignia thing is trotted out by those who haven't driven one or those too blinkered / rose tinted to realise that the VF was an old car underneath and it lacked modern equipment.
Yes the VF was a V8, yes it was RWD, yes you could do smoking burnouts and drifts - but also in Australia if you do that then someone will either dob you in and you'll lose your licence under anti-hoon laws or you'll get seen doing it, or you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway so it wont happen anyway.
It was a big old beast, but was great fun. Parking sensors, reverse camera and touch screen were items that were not on my requirements.
The ZB was more poor quality Mazda 6, than 4-door Camaro.
Bibbs said:
hman said:
RS wagon is a 2.0T Fwd
RSV wagon is a v6 3.6 AWD
Having driven all of these (and the VF before) I can assure you the ZB ( latest version) commodore is miles ahead equipment, cabin and technology wise.
The rebaged insignia thing is trotted out by those who haven't driven one or those too blinkered / rose tinted to realise that the VF was an old car underneath and it lacked modern equipment.
Yes the VF was a V8, yes it was RWD, yes you could do smoking burnouts and drifts - but also in Australia if you do that then someone will either dob you in and you'll lose your licence under anti-hoon laws or you'll get seen doing it, or you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway so it wont happen anyway.
I generally don't like FWD or AWD cars, I drove my VE hard. Only got points once, and that was the day I drove the car home from collecting it.RSV wagon is a v6 3.6 AWD
Having driven all of these (and the VF before) I can assure you the ZB ( latest version) commodore is miles ahead equipment, cabin and technology wise.
The rebaged insignia thing is trotted out by those who haven't driven one or those too blinkered / rose tinted to realise that the VF was an old car underneath and it lacked modern equipment.
Yes the VF was a V8, yes it was RWD, yes you could do smoking burnouts and drifts - but also in Australia if you do that then someone will either dob you in and you'll lose your licence under anti-hoon laws or you'll get seen doing it, or you'll be stuck in traffic most of the time anyway so it wont happen anyway.
It was a big old beast, but was great fun. Parking sensors, reverse camera and touch screen were items that were not on my requirements.
The ZB was more poor quality Mazda 6, than 4-door Camaro.
unsprung said:
captain_cynic said:
They weren't as cheap as Mustangs/Camaros so no-one bought them their either.
Sorry, but no. The main reason is that Mustang and Camaro buyers tend not to cross-shop a four-door saloon. Especially one that quite convincingly adopted the innocuous egg-shaped body style designed Down Under.The Camaro and Mustang buyers were also Charger buyers.... Because they were large 5 seat RWD cars.
unsprung said:
captain_cynic said:
It also didn't help that the engines were horrible American lumps that weren't powerful or fuel efficient.
The units rebadged for the US market as Pontiac and Chevrolet eventually received an LS3 with 415hp / 415 lb-ft. 0 to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds. 10 years ago and older. Those facts are different to the claims you make.I was referring to the engines put in by Holden, not special editions done overseas. Please get your facts right.
Even with uprated engines, GM were completely unable to sell them overseas... Because no one wanted an American car that was more expensive than American cars... And GM were taking a loss on most of the ones they sold overseas.
hman said:
Rubbish, you've clearly never been inside either.
Yeah, well reasoned argument there.I have, I though the ZB was a bland white-goods type vehicle. It was boring.
The Kia Stinger GT was a better replacement for the VF, and the ZB.
And it seems I wasan't the only one to think so, when Holden changed to a "we just do SUVs and Utes" and is now a "we don't sell cars, we only do warranty repairs until 2023".
Bibbs said:
Pommy said:
Bibbs said:
Conrod Straight said:
Confidential DCB shows massive discounts coming: how does a brand new Astra for AUD$12k sound?
about $11k overpriced 
d i like mine 
To be honest $12k for a new one is a f
king bargain.Rawwr said:
Krikkit said:
If that's true they would've out-sold the other products...
Not necessarily. I suspect most car sales are dictated by fashion rather than any other measure. Take the UK for example, do people really consider what's 'better' - even for their own needs - before deciding on white, diesel, German vehicle in style #372? I personally suspect not.Probably worth pointing out that the US exports failed because:
a) GM killed of Pontiac so the G8 got canned
b) The Chev SS suffered because of CAFE regulations (fleet CO2). It basically counted the same as a Silverado, and guess which one GM North America made more money on, and which one provided jobs for Americans.
a) GM killed of Pontiac so the G8 got canned
b) The Chev SS suffered because of CAFE regulations (fleet CO2). It basically counted the same as a Silverado, and guess which one GM North America made more money on, and which one provided jobs for Americans.
If I can't afford an Aston in 10 years time, my back up plan is to import a VE or VF Clubsport R8 Tourer. (The VE came in a manual, but the VF is newer...
)
There's something about it that just appeals far more than anything german or an SUV. Maybe it's just the LS under the bonnet, or the unpretentious nature of it. It's an honest sports car, just with a chuffing massive boot!
) There's something about it that just appeals far more than anything german or an SUV. Maybe it's just the LS under the bonnet, or the unpretentious nature of it. It's an honest sports car, just with a chuffing massive boot!
TypeRTim said:
If I can't afford an Aston in 10 years time, my back up plan is to import a VE or VF Clubsport R8 Tourer. (The VE came in a manual, but the VF is newer...)
There's something about it that just appeals far more than anything german or an SUV. Maybe it's just the LS under the bonnet, or the unpretentious nature of it. It's an honest sports car, just with a chuffing massive boot!
I've seen manual VF/VF-II Clubsport R8s too!) There's something about it that just appeals far more than anything german or an SUV. Maybe it's just the LS under the bonnet, or the unpretentious nature of it. It's an honest sports car, just with a chuffing massive boot!
TobyTR said:
TypeRTim said:
If I can't afford an Aston in 10 years time, my back up plan is to import a VE or VF Clubsport R8 Tourer. (The VE came in a manual, but the VF is newer...)
There's something about it that just appeals far more than anything german or an SUV. Maybe it's just the LS under the bonnet, or the unpretentious nature of it. It's an honest sports car, just with a chuffing massive boot!
I've seen manual VF/VF-II Clubsport R8s too!) There's something about it that just appeals far more than anything german or an SUV. Maybe it's just the LS under the bonnet, or the unpretentious nature of it. It's an honest sports car, just with a chuffing massive boot!
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/results?q=((((Odo...
TobyTR said:
Kawasicki said:
Both cars were developed by extremely experienced Australian based engineering teams.
I can speak for the Ford team as I worked on the FG Falcon project. There was pretty much no USA involvement. So to say they were “essentially American” is wrong. From driving feel, they were much, much closer to European cars.
Nice job, Kawasicki I can speak for the Ford team as I worked on the FG Falcon project. There was pretty much no USA involvement. So to say they were “essentially American” is wrong. From driving feel, they were much, much closer to European cars.
Did you work on the FPV Falcon GT and F6 Typhoon cars? I understand they were engineered by Prodrive and were the chief rival to the HSV/Vauxhall VXR8 GTS - all of them truly great cars. Anyone who mocks them has no idea how good they actually are. Around Castle Combe they're as quick as a BMW M4 Competiton Pack.
While not everyone's cup of tea, I respect these cars and very happy they existed; variety is the spice of life.
I would love to own a HSV or FPV car in the near-future.
I had a great time working on the FG. I benchmarked the Commodore, including all the HSV variants. They were, for the most part, brilliant.
One of my final projects was working with Prodrive on the GT-F. There was cooperation between Ford and Prodrive on the last few fast Falcons, it was a very pleasant experience, and the cars were better for it.
Kawasicki said:
Cheers Toby.
I had a great time working on the FG. I benchmarked the Commodore, including all the HSV variants. They were, for the most part, brilliant.
One of my final projects was working with Prodrive on the GT-F. There was cooperation between Ford and Prodrive on the last few fast Falcons, it was a very pleasant experience, and the cars were better for it.
Amazing, thanks!I had a great time working on the FG. I benchmarked the Commodore, including all the HSV variants. They were, for the most part, brilliant.
One of my final projects was working with Prodrive on the GT-F. There was cooperation between Ford and Prodrive on the last few fast Falcons, it was a very pleasant experience, and the cars were better for it.
I wish Ford UK had officially brought in a few hundred FPV cars to rival Vauxhall with the VXR8/GTS
Those FPVs are fantastic
Which was faster out of the GT-F and HSV GTS? And which was the better car?
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