Why a performance car when all cars are near equal

[ntiz]

Sports cars will be no different the way they are now.

Your run of the mill shopping car will have the cheapest possible motor powering the front wheels. All the current luxury we have in cars now will be added to EVs making them extremely heavy. So a sports car will be much lighter but we will probably have to come to terms that maybe a light EV will weight 1.5 tons maybe more, but if your average car is closer to 2 tons will still be relatively light weight. Plus a company like Ferrari will be using the latest most extreme motors with little thought of cost and putting one in each corner for maximum power.

Then like now will be doing there magic on the wheel, tyre and suspension set up to make them drive the way they do. That is still a massive skill that can’t be under estimated.

So basically same thing as now will use less compromised more expensive parts to make it more exciting than you average car that has to take price, practicality into consideration.

[bridgdav]

Why would any government get rid of ICE vehicles.?

The Stealth tax industry in the UK would almost support the manufacture of ICE and gas guzzler vehicles. So they can Slap a purchase, yearly, usage and petrol tax on any owner who wishes to go against the Mumsnet and tree hugging majority.

[mike74]

alfaspecial said:

And in the Brave New World......


Within a very short period of time - just a decade or so - we will all be forced to buy EVs (if buying new)
Because ICE cars will be 'obsolete' within this time frame the powers that be will, FOR CERTAIN, take the opportunity of legislating for compatibility / autonomy for all vehicles:
1) Performance will be limited by 'Big Brother'. If the speed limit is 30, your car will go no faster than 30 (ie gps limiters)
2) Acceleration / overtaking will likewise be limited to ensure roads are 'safe'. Your car won't deviate from it's correct side of the road.
3) Self driving vehicles (SDV - is this a new acronym!) will need to 'speak' to one another and therefore it's logical to remove individual decision making (drivers) from the equation
4) For self driving to really work to the optimum non self driving cars will be removed from the road, firstly by subsidies for compliant vehicles, then by taxation of non compliant vehicles (NCV) followed by an outright ban of NCVs

Enjoy your driving while you can..... a decade from now the cars we so love and cherish will be but a memory ..... citizens of the Brave New World will be enslaving themselves to 'rent' an overpriced (but payable in affordable weekly instalments) PTD (Personal Transportation Device) one with about as much charisma of a washing machine.

Unfortunately I fully agree with all of that, especially when it comes to disincentivizing ICE cars effectively off the road in the next decade.

I can't understand why more people can't see it and accept the inevitability of it... especially all those idiot ''investors'' still paying record bubble prices for all things described as an ''appreciating future classic''

[Pothole]

alfaspecial said:

And in the Brave New World......


Within a very short period of time - just a decade or so - we will all be forced to buy EVs (if buying new)
Because ICE cars will be 'obsolete' within this time frame the powers that be will, FOR CERTAIN, take the opportunity of legislating for compatibility / autonomy for all vehicles:
1) Performance will be limited by 'Big Brother'. If the speed limit is 30, your car will go no faster than 30 (ie gps limiters)
2) Acceleration / overtaking will likewise be limited to ensure roads are 'safe'. Your car won't deviate from it's correct side of the road.
3) Self driving vehicles (SDV - is this a new acronym!) will need to 'speak' to one another and therefore it's logical to remove individual decision making (drivers) from the equation
4) For self driving to really work to the optimum non self driving cars will be removed from the road, firstly by subsidies for compliant vehicles, then by taxation of non compliant vehicles (NCV) followed by an outright ban of NCVs

Enjoy your driving while you can..... a decade from now the cars we so love and cherish will be but a memory ..... citizens of the Brave New World will be enslaving themselves to 'rent' an overpriced (but payable in affordable weekly instalments) PTD (Personal Transportation Device) one with about as much charisma of a washing machine.

What rubbish.

[Chubbyross]

You could ask the question why do people buy Lamborghinis and Ferraris in London. We’re all soon to be restricted to 20mph anyway. But people who can afford it will always want something that little bit different, whether it’s a more luxurious cabin, more aerodynamic design or simply because of the badge on the front. EVs are no different to any other product.

[MC Bodge]

alfaspecial said:

And in the Brave New World......


Within a very short period of time - just a decade or so - we will all be forced to buy EVs (if buying new)
Because ICE cars will be 'obsolete' within this time frame the powers that be will, FOR CERTAIN, take the opportunity of legislating for compatibility / autonomy for all vehicles:
1) Performance will be limited by 'Big Brother'. If the speed limit is 30, your car will go no faster than 30 (ie gps limiters)
2) Acceleration / overtaking will likewise be limited to ensure roads are 'safe'. Your car won't deviate from it's correct side of the road.
3) Self driving vehicles (SDV - is this a new acronym!) will need to 'speak' to one another and therefore it's logical to remove individual decision making (drivers) from the equation
4) For self driving to really work to the optimum non self driving cars will be removed from the road, firstly by subsidies for compliant vehicles, then by taxation of non compliant vehicles (NCV) followed by an outright ban of NCVs

Enjoy your driving while you can..... a decade from now the cars we so love and cherish will be but a memory ..... citizens of the Brave New World will be enslaving themselves to 'rent' an overpriced (but payable in affordable weekly instalments) PTD (Personal Transportation Device) one with about as much charisma of a washing machine.

As much as some wish to deny it, this is surely a fairly accurate prediction?

The 20th Century was the century of the personal, self-driven, internal combustion engined car. We are now a fifth of the way into the 21st Century.

[RobM77]

MC Bodge said:

alfaspecial said:

And in the Brave New World......


Within a very short period of time - just a decade or so - we will all be forced to buy EVs (if buying new)
Because ICE cars will be 'obsolete' within this time frame the powers that be will, FOR CERTAIN, take the opportunity of legislating for compatibility / autonomy for all vehicles:
1) Performance will be limited by 'Big Brother'. If the speed limit is 30, your car will go no faster than 30 (ie gps limiters)
2) Acceleration / overtaking will likewise be limited to ensure roads are 'safe'. Your car won't deviate from it's correct side of the road.
3) Self driving vehicles (SDV - is this a new acronym!) will need to 'speak' to one another and therefore it's logical to remove individual decision making (drivers) from the equation
4) For self driving to really work to the optimum non self driving cars will be removed from the road, firstly by subsidies for compliant vehicles, then by taxation of non compliant vehicles (NCV) followed by an outright ban of NCVs

Enjoy your driving while you can..... a decade from now the cars we so love and cherish will be but a memory ..... citizens of the Brave New World will be enslaving themselves to 'rent' an overpriced (but payable in affordable weekly instalments) PTD (Personal Transportation Device) one with about as much charisma of a washing machine.

As much as some wish to deny it, this is surely a fairly accurate prediction?

The 20th Century was the century of the personal, self-driven, internal combustion engined car. We are now a fifth of the way into the 21st Century.

Yes, but we need to put a context to that. Steam trains were normal trains a hundred years ago, whereas now they're owned by enthusiasts for recreation. Similarly, I suspect in 25-50 years the average car enthusiast will have an EV for everyday use, perhaps self driving, and an ICE Elise or TVR for the weekend and trackdays.

[Monkeylegend]

alfaspecial said:

But........
The state can and does track your phone (and by implication you) 24/7
There was the murder case in Anglsey just this week where the murder was caught by the telemetry from his own car - not just where he had been but the exact times he opened and closed the boot

Makes you wonder what the world is coming to when you can't even murder somebody in this country now without state interference.

[aeropilot]

Daston said:

Are we destined for a bland soulless car future?

Yes.

White goods transportation devices, nothing more.

[ntiz]

Monkeylegend said:

alfaspecial said:

But........
The state can and does track your phone (and by implication you) 24/7
There was the murder case in Anglsey just this week where the murder was caught by the telemetry from his own car - not just where he had been but the exact times he opened and closed the boot

Makes you wonder what the world is coming to when you can't even murder somebody in this country now without state interference.

I know fking nightmare!!! I was going to chop the missus up this weekend.

Months of planing ruined. What about my right to privacy???

[CanAm]

Daston said:

.................

So the question is why bother with a Sports car? What are the likes of Ferrari etc going to be able to come up to make their car any different to all the other EV's which have the motors in the same place and the battery along the floor.

A 1959 Frogeye Sprite had the same engine, gearbox and back axle etc in (roughly) the same place as the Austin A35. Wildly different cars though. I'm sure we'll eventually have interesting electric cars too.

[rosetank]

The problem is; electric motors have no character. It’s like saying one drill is more fun than another, it’s never going to work like that. The power delivery of these power trains will have to be capped, the roads, drivers and general architecture will simply not cope with 2000HP cars driven by someone half asleep, in the wet, with ‘normal’ cars around them. So the depressing reality for people like me is having to put aside all the things I love about cars, the sounds, smells, vibration, the way different configurations of cylinders make power and torque. An i3 feels like a Tesla, feels like a Taycan. Perfect throttle response, silence, monster torque from zero speed. So it’s all going to be down to handling, we’ve simply lost a complete element of what makes a performance car fun? The issue is, when manufacturers made things that handled, but had humdrum engines nobody bought them. With the average car buyer not caring about dynamics, batteries which upset everything due to their packaging and advertising based upon green credentials, I think performance cars are doomed with EV. Then, the powers that be will install controls, soon they’ll be nothing more than glorified taxis. As for all the talk of redundancy, does anyone believe that the vast amounts of priceless historical vehicles will simply be sidelined, it’s just not going to happen. But if an F40 owner wants to get out of his dinosaur ICE contraption I’ll happily trade him for an EV

[MC Bodge]

RobM77 said:

Yes, but we need to put a context to that. Steam trains were normal trains a hundred years ago, whereas now they're owned by enthusiasts for recreation. Similarly, I suspect in 25-50 years the average car enthusiast will have an EV for everyday use, perhaps self driving, and an ICE Elise or TVR for the weekend and trackdays.

Possibly, although it does depend upon legislation.

[ntiz]

MC Bodge said:

RobM77 said:

Yes, but we need to put a context to that. Steam trains were normal trains a hundred years ago, whereas now they're owned by enthusiasts for recreation. Similarly, I suspect in 25-50 years the average car enthusiast will have an EV for everyday use, perhaps self driving, and an ICE Elise or TVR for the weekend and trackdays.

Possibly, although it does depend upon legislation.

I can’t see them just stopping it all together. Would crush what is a very profitable industry in this country. We are the best in the world at restoring and generally running super rare cars here.

Last time our old Bentley was in the garage alongside it were cars from the USA, NZ and Germany his garage is always full. It would kill off people like him immediately.

[murphyaj]

Aiminghigh123 said:

Alexa records in the background the whole time. Has been used in a few cases in America.

I'm afraid that's not strictly true. An amazon echo (or google home) is always listening for the activating wake word, but only what it hears after that is sent to the server. If the blue light isn't on then it's not sending your voice to the cloud. And I'm not taking Amazon or Google's word for it, this is trivial to verify yourself. If you have a good quality WiFi router the admin settings will have a traffic monitor which can show you when and where any connected devices are sending internet traffic. I work for an engineering firm and some of my colleges are both very tech savvy and very paranoid about their data, so they know what they are on about.

There have been cases where recordings from an Amazon Echo have made it into court, but in those cases someone had said the wake word at some point shortly beforehand.

exelero said:

I think every word is monitored already as it is. Well not monitored as such, but it goes somewhere from your phone recording the sound all the time and then your camera being constantly on while you have a GPS tracker in your pocket. These can be fetched if they think you did something wrong, and they will there will be no doubt about that.

If your phone was uploading everything it heard all the time the battery would last about 2 hours. A bit like a smart speaker it can listen for a wake word for a virtual assistant (like Siri), but it would be simply far too power intensive and take up far too much of the available network bandwidth to transmit everything. Your location, however, is often tracked as this can be sent to the server every few minutes with minimal power use (if you have an android phone try searching "google maps timeline" and see what I mean).
There is nothing, in theory, to prevent a phones microphone or camera being remotely activated, and that might be possible right now depending on the model. But having them all on and all recording all the time isn't feasible from a practical standpoint.

[J4CKO]

ntiz said:

MC Bodge said:

RobM77 said:

Yes, but we need to put a context to that. Steam trains were normal trains a hundred years ago, whereas now they're owned by enthusiasts for recreation. Similarly, I suspect in 25-50 years the average car enthusiast will have an EV for everyday use, perhaps self driving, and an ICE Elise or TVR for the weekend and trackdays.

Possibly, although it does depend upon legislation.

I can’t see them just stopping it all together. Would crush what is a very profitable industry in this country. We are the best in the world at restoring and generally running super rare cars here.

Last time our old Bentley was in the garage alongside it were cars from the USA, NZ and Germany his garage is always full. It would kill off people like him immediately.

Indeed, the government actively support the classic car industry, not VED for cars over 40 years old, no MOT either, think there were tax breaks and whatever as well.

I dont believe the government are hell bent on enslaving us, what they do want to do is stop people doing stuff that affects others unduly, pollutes the environment unnecessarily or costs money from the public purse.

A few folk in old cars at the weekend is pretty low grade environmentally and pulls in money in terms of goods and services, it keeps people employed.

But of course, the Central Scrutinizer is out to monitor our every move, pass me the BacoFoil, I pity anyone watching my every move as its really not very interesting, I suspect they are mainly interested in people who do illegal stuff like terrorism, tax evasion and stuff like that rather than watching Top Gear, Xhamster, chatting st on here and ordering the odd takeaway

[irocfan]

boyse7en said:

The future Ferrari may look better than the future Ford, but if your only advantage is looks then a lot of people will take the added practicality of a saloon or hatch over a wedgy two-seater.

aren't we already there? If you want to be pedantic, the only real advantage the Fezza has over a Ford is acceleration (looks are subjective):

- Who cares about top speed (academic here)?
- a diesel Focus will get you to your destination (in real terms) as fast as a Ferrari, if not quicker
- most of the range will carry more people more comfortably than a Ferrari
- the build quality of a Ferrari should be better and harder wearing than a Ford, but this hasn't always been the case

despite the perceived advantages I know I'd rather have the Ferrari than a Focus/Mondeo/C-Max/S-Max

[irocfan]

Scootersp said:

alfaspecial said:

And in the Brave New World......


Within a very short period of time - just a decade or so - we will all be forced to buy EVs (if buying new)
Because ICE cars will be 'obsolete' within this time frame the powers that be will, FOR CERTAIN, take the opportunity of legislating for compatibility / autonomy for all vehicles:
1) Performance will be limited by 'Big Brother'. If the speed limit is 30, your car will go no faster than 30 (ie gps limiters)
2) Acceleration / overtaking will likewise be limited to ensure roads are 'safe'. Your car won't deviate from it's correct side of the road.
3) Self driving vehicles (SDV - is this a new acronym!) will need to 'speak' to one another and therefore it's logical to remove individual decision making (drivers) from the equation
4) For self driving to really work to the optimum non self driving cars will be removed from the road, firstly by subsidies for compliant vehicles, then by taxation of non compliant vehicles (NCV) followed by an outright ban of NCVs

Enjoy your driving while you can..... a decade from now the cars we so love and cherish will be but a memory ..... citizens of the Brave New World will be enslaving themselves to 'rent' an overpriced (but payable in affordable weekly instalments) PTD (Personal Transportation Device) one with about as much charisma of a washing machine.

I don't see 3 happening for a long time, radar cruise, lane following etc on a motorway is one thing, the variables there are fewer. On urban or country roads and I see far more random stuff to thwart the programming. Random but not necessarily uncommon events that occur every hour of every day across the country, even the worst knuckle scrappers or dipsy old person processes a massive amount of information quickly.

Also there will be a massive resistance (to a ban) from the general population.

the population resist a ban on ICE? They'll take their instructions from St. Greta and her extremist handlers (no? Look at Bristol today or the ER protests elsewhere - where are the counter-protests against these twunts?). I can't disagree with Alfa's post (with the possible exception of the timescale)

[Monkeylegend]

ntiz said:

Monkeylegend said:

alfaspecial said:

But........
The state can and does track your phone (and by implication you) 24/7
There was the murder case in Anglsey just this week where the murder was caught by the telemetry from his own car - not just where he had been but the exact times he opened and closed the boot

Makes you wonder what the world is coming to when you can't even murder somebody in this country now without state interference.

I know fking nightmare!!! I was going to chop the missus up this weekend.

Months of planing ruined. What about my right to privacy???

I have a Renault Scenic I can lend you if you want, I am sure nobody knows when I open the doors or boot on that, well apart from the idiots who park too close in car parks, but I am well away from the scene of the crime when the find out.

[John Locke]

irocfan said:

the population resist a ban on ICE? They'll take their instructions from St. Greta and her extremist handlers (no? Look at Bristol today or the ER protests elsewhere - where are the counter-protests against these twunts?). I can't disagree with Alfa's post (with the possible exception of the timescale)

Potential counter protesters were at work earning money on which they will be taxed, to pay for the Gretian's benefits.