RE: Mini Electric | UK Review

[cerb4.5lee]

FA57REN said:

spikyone said:

This might work as a commuter car, but the range is pitiful for anyone that lives in the real world where you need to make longer journeys that aren't practical by public transport. .

Blah blah blah

And an E63 would suck as a city car.

Why can't people understand that not every car is aimed at them? Seems to be a particular flaw of people who chose to live out in the country and feel they must loudly proclaim how awful the bus service is.

I agree and the Mini has always been a shopping car and something you buy to nip around locally in imo. It doesn't need a massive range for me, and if you are doing a meaningful amount of miles a Mini of any description wouldn't be in the running anyway.

[RobDickinson]

Brother had one of the last old mini that only managed about 150 miles on a tank too.

Was 'self lightening' though as bits fell off it regularly.

[mikeswagon]

TomTVR500 said:

Forgetting for a second that electric cars aren't the answer or the future. My biggest problem with this is the use of a Cooper S badge.... what's all that about?
For a start it's an insult to Mini Heritage and secondly, for the people buying this sort of car surely a badge signifying (at least until now) the hot petrol model in the lineup holds no allure? It's both insulting and nonsensical. Just put a badge saying "Expensive Model" or "Oh so virtuous" on the back so their neighbors know they are both keeping up with the Joneses and responsible "right thinking" middle class moral compasses and have done.

Edited by TomTVR500 on Friday 28th February 08:48

Cooper: 134bhp 162lb ft 7.9s
Cooper S 189bhp 207lb ft 6.8s
Cooper SE 184bhp 199lb ft 7.3s

I don't see it as an insult to the heritage, and you can understand the badging based on the power and torque figures, obviously the extra kgs blunt the performance slightly. Those wanting to keep up with the Jones's will probably tell their neighbours it stands for Special Equipment anyway.

[Filibuster]

What is peoples view on the new options policy?

They offer it only in three trim levels: M, L, XL with the only options to choose from being colour and wheels

This also happens to more and more ICE cars, as the new WLTP dictates measuring each individual configuration (or so...).
So this is basically what manufacturers used to to up until the around the 80's.

[Evanivitch]

TomTVR500 said:

My biggest problem with this is the use of a Cooper S badge.... what's all that about?
For a start it's an insult to Mini Heritage and secondly, for the people buying this sort of car surely a badge signifying (at least until now) the hot petrol model in the lineup holds no allure? It's both insulting and nonsensical. Just put a badge saying "Expensive Model"

Firstly, you really want to get into the BINI heritage argument?

Secondly, the S badge is like every other performance badge out there, M, AMG, S line, it's just a badge and a trim. It means nothing any more.

And frankly if you thought the Cooper SD on a crossover was okay then you've lost your point years ago.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Filibuster said:

What is peoples view on the new options policy?

They offer it only in three trim levels: M, L, XL with the only options to choose from being colour and wheels

This also happens to more and more ICE cars, as the new WLTP dictates measuring each individual configuration (or so...).
So this is basically what manufacturers used to to up until the around the 80's.

this has been affecting german performance cars for some time, RS models have very few options now

[Jon_S_Rally]

RobDickinson said:

Whilst your not wrong, tax revenue will come from EV's (though I doubt on electricity), tne running costs gap to ice won't close, it'll likely get larger

Do you mean the ICE cars will get more expensive to run? If that's the case, I think you're right. As demand for fuel drops, prices will go up. Those talking of a world where they can still enjoy their ICE cars as weekend toys are in for a nasty surprise I think. While I am not sure they will be banned, I think petrol will become so expensive that most people won't be able to afford one.

I think the government will find a way to charge EV owners so that running an EV costs a similar amount to running the equivalent ICE car at the moment.

FA57REN said:

That monstrosity is going to do more to drive EV adoption than a £30k Mini.

Not looking like that it's not.

[Court_S]

GTEYE said:

Looks interesting- I think it could do rather well. A bit more conventional than an i3 might be just what the market wants.

This times lots.

I personally really like the i3 but understand why its looks put so many people off. Things like this MINI and the e-Golf make the transition easier. I think this will do really well and I'd be really tempted to have something like this as a second car for my other half who a) likes MINI's and b) drives 10 miles per day and rarely ventures onto dual carriageways.

Not surprised about the ride - the Golf GTE thuds and thumps through pot holes etc far more than the regular Golf's I have driven.

[MDifficult]

I’m one of the folk who’s put down a deposit on one of these - car is due for delivery mid-May and my ‘stump-up or walk-away’ test drive is in a couple of weeks.

I’m viewing this as half of a perfect two car family. Vast majority of our driving as a family is less than 50 miles and my daily commute is 18 miles each way - and my wife walks to work. I also love Minis so for us, this’ll be the ‘daily’ for my commute and weekend pottering, paired with something a bit bonkers for high days, holidays and hooning.

I love the fact that it just looks like a Mini, so limited virtue-signalling, plus it sounds like it’s a much better ‘drive’ than other small electric cars. I’m not some hemp-chewing greenie, but I’m starting to feel that if I’m going to burn dead dinosaurs I’d like to do it for fun and pleasure on occasions, rather than grinding out the daily commute.

[loveice]

KJH said:

MrGeoff said:

KJH said:

This is a reskinned I3s model.

I think you're way off the mark with this. The i3s is a vastly different vehicle.

Same running gear as the I3s. Of course the chassis and panels are not the same, that is obvious by just looking at it.

Initially you claimed this Mini Electric "is a reskinned I3s model".

Then after been pointed out it's a vastly different vehicle, you now claims it has the same running gear as the I3s.

Let's see...

Yes, they have the same battery. But, just like most petrol cars under the same brand would have the same size or type of fuel tanks and people tend to put the same brand of petrol or diesel into their so called different cars. Would you call most internal combustion engined cars a reskinned model of another based on this argument?

Yes agian, they have the same motor. But, Audi A1 uses the 2.0 EA888 TFSI I4. And guess what, the new A6 also uses the same petrol engine. Would you call the new A6 a reskinned A1?

On the other hand, I3s is a RWD vehicle, whereas this Mini Electric is a FWD. Well, shouldn't "RWD vs FRW" be part of "running gear" your argument is currently based on?

Then, you mentioned in your second post that "of cause the chassis and panels are not the same". So, how do you "reskin" a car when they have totally different chassis? By claiming "reskinned", the part should be different is the skin, right? You didn't claim it's a "rechassised I3s", did you?

Audi A1 is a reskinned VW Polo, correct. Citroen Berlingo is a reskinned Peugeot Partner, correct. Ford Expedition is a reskinned Lincoln Navigator, again correct... But, Mini Electric is not a reskinned I3s, full stop.

[NGK210]

At least it looks OK.
However, it’s heavy, it has feeble range, takes ages to ‘refuel’, and the recharging network - as highlighted recently by Harry’s Garage, among many others - is alarmingly inadequate.
So, it’s a typical EV.
But, can someone please explain why there seems to be little apparent awareness, adoption or interest in carbon-neutral fuels? Surely it’s a more realistic, and simpler, solution?
https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/

[Jex]

mikeswagon said:

TomTVR500 said:

Forgetting for a second that electric cars aren't the answer or the future. My biggest problem with this is the use of a Cooper S badge.... what's all that about?
For a start it's an insult to Mini Heritage and secondly, for the people buying this sort of car surely a badge signifying (at least until now) the hot petrol model in the lineup holds no allure? It's both insulting and nonsensical. Just put a badge saying "Expensive Model" or "Oh so virtuous" on the back so their neighbors know they are both keeping up with the Joneses and responsible "right thinking" middle class moral compasses and have done.

Edited by TomTVR500 on Friday 28th February 08:48

Cooper: 134bhp 162lb ft 7.9s
Cooper S 189bhp 207lb ft 6.8s
Cooper SE 184bhp 199lb ft 7.3s

I don't see it as an insult to the heritage, and you can understand the badging based on the power and torque figures, obviously the extra kgs blunt the performance slightly. Those wanting to keep up with the Jones's will probably tell their neighbours it stands for Special Equipment anyway.

Better than the Porsche Taycan having Turbo and Turbo S models though.

[spikyone]

cerb4.5lee said:

FA57REN said:

spikyone said:

This might work as a commuter car, but the range is pitiful for anyone that lives in the real world where you need to make longer journeys that aren't practical by public transport. .

Blah blah blah

And an E63 would suck as a city car.

Why can't people understand that not every car is aimed at them? Seems to be a particular flaw of people who chose to live out in the country and feel they must loudly proclaim how awful the bus service is.

I agree and the Mini has always been a shopping car and something you buy to nip around locally in imo. It doesn't need a massive range for me, and if you are doing a meaningful amount of miles a Mini of any description wouldn't be in the running anyway.

I actually live in a large town, rather than out in the country - the bus services are still awful though, my 7 mile commute is considerably faster on a bicycle. But sometimes I need to go to other towns, visit friends or family, that sort of thing. And when I do, I take passengers and luggage, which makes public transport expensive and inconvenient. I think I'm far from a minority in that respect.

You don't have to be doing meaningful miles for an ICE Mini to be better and cheaper than this electric version. It's £25k before you tick any options, and the vast majority of the population will need to own another car for longer journeys before it makes sense. So this is a very expensive second car, at best. You could buy an entry level Mini for £9k less, and not be at all compromised in how you use it.

For electric cars to be worthwhile, they need to serve all of our transport needs, not "some" or "most". And if they cost 50% more than an ICE car whilst failing to meet all of our needs, they're a white elephant. I want electric cars to work. A 140 mile range is useless for most people.

[Pumpsmynads]

spikyone said:

This might work as a commuter car, but the range is pitiful for anyone that lives in the real world where you need to make longer journeys that aren't practical by public transport. That range wouldn't get me from my home to where my parents live, so in reality I'd need it to be a second car.
Even the e208 only has a range of 211 miles. Throw in a hot/cold day where you need to use the air con or heater, and I wouldn't be surprised if a 150 mile journey became a nervy affair in the Peugeot.
I don't buy the idea that it's fine because "70 miles is half a tank" either - 70 miles is 70 miles, no matter what your overall range is, and you're currently going to be much closer to a petrol pump than a fast charger.

For £25k I'd rather have a hot hatch with a 400-500 mile range and not need something else for non-commuting miles. It'd probably be 200kg lighter and much better to drive too.

Exactly! I’ve just written to BMW telling them that their 10 years of research was a waste because this car doesn’t meet the needs of one man on the internet.

[AlexIT]

spikyone said:

A 140 mile range is useless for most people.

You are not most people.


Taking as correct what's reported here: https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobili...

Annual average mileage in the UK is 7.600 miles, i.e. 633 miles per month. That equals to recharging the Mini 5 times per month on average.


Would this fulfil MY needs for a car? No it doesn't, I drive about 20.000 miles per year and very often it happens that I drive 500 miles in a single day, so for sure at the moment EVs are not an option for me.
Would this fulfil my OH needs for a car? yes it does, she drives 400 ish miles per month, so this is perfect for her.

[Dave Hedgehog]

NGK210 said:

At least it looks OK.
However, it’s heavy, it has feeble range, takes ages to ‘refuel’, and the recharging network - as highlighted recently by Harry’s Garage, among many others - is alarmingly inadequate.
So, it’s a typical EV.
But, can someone please explain why there seems to be little apparent awareness, adoption or interest in carbon-neutral fuels? Surely it’s a more realistic, and simpler, solution?
https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/

it is by far the most complex solution, and as they are creating a hydro carbon presumably nox and other crap will be created when burnt

1) Make green electricity, transfer it to car over existing infrastructure to an EV, after cable and charging losses about 90% of the energy is used for movement.

2) Take 3 energy units of green electricity, make 1 energy unit of hydrogen, use a lot of resources to transport, store and to deliver it. Use it to power Fuel Cell transport, probably the best solution for large vehicles and even shipping. That one unit of hydrogen that a fuel cell uses gives about 60% of the energy for movement.

3) Take the result from 2 add a lot more energy for processing, then use even more resources for transport storage and delivery, using 6+ times as much energy as a a pure EV to create the fuel you then put it in a ICE vehicle that is at best 25-30% of the energy is used for movement, plus some nice pollution out the back.

Its a fantasy of a doomed car industry desperately trying to stay relevant

[The Cardinal]

I think it fits the bill perfectly as a characterful city car. I really like it.

We have another vehicle for long distances and do around 3-4,000 miles per year in a hatchback, mainly around town, so I'm considering the Mini very carefully.

While it's certainly compromised, much of it's to do with the fact it's a small rather than electric car. Some of the downsides - size, range - are also upsides... easy parking, quick charging.

The main obstacle for me has been charging, which affects electric cars in general rather than the Mini. We live in a Victorian terraced street and so installing a charger isn't possible. However, a local 50kw rapid charger recently opened about 400m from the house - and some of our EV-driving neighbours are just making do with cables extended from 3-pin sockets.

I can see it making do around town for ferrying kids and for various activities over the weekend and half terms, being charged occasionally from the local public charger or from a 3-pin when I'm working from home.

Even a pessimistic sub 100-mile range would be fine for visiting relatives. Everything else would be covered by our van, except for some business miles, which I am mostly doing by train nowadays anyway. We cycle to work, so there's no commuter mileage.

A 200-mile range small EV like a Zoe or 208 would cost very similar, but we wouldn't benefit from the range. I don't fancy a 4-up 200 mile journey in a Zoe anyway!

So, if I can get my head around the small size and take a punt on charging, it's the Mini I'd go for.

[900T-R]

The review sounds all good - at least for those who can afford Cooper S money for what is effectively strictly a second car (my Cooper S was the most expensive company lease car I had, and had to work rather harder for its keep).

Until you realise, then, that the current iteration of the Cooper S gets a distinctly mediocre 3.5 stars in Evo, and this is supposed to be only 'nearly' as good dynamically - indicating, that BEVs still have some way to go when it comes to driver appeal.

[ghost83]

Filibuster said:

But these come with a better spec! Like for like, the EV is slightly cheaper than the petrol one.

As a F56 Cooper S owner, I'd love one of these. But unfortunately I have no possibility to charge it....
Also since I don't commute by car, and sometimes doesn't need a car for a whole week!
This means that mostly, also the Mini gets used for trips on the weekend of 100+miles. Also, while the holiday home is just within reach for the Mini, since there are again no charging capabilities, it's also not suited for that....

If I'd be commuting by car, I'd have one in a heartbeat! Bravo Mini, well done!!

Still rather have a petrol Cooper s, what happens when the battery is goosed after 10yrs?

[Jex]

It works if:

You have off road parking and can install a charging point
Do many short or shortish journeys
You have another car for longer journeys (although you could always hire one - cheaper than owning two cars)

If not, it is still problematic.