RE: Government ponders E10 petrol for 2021

RE: Government ponders E10 petrol for 2021

Wednesday 4th March 2020

Government ponders E10 petrol for 2021

Problems with compatibility likely to be dismissed in desperate scrabble for lower CO2 targets



This is nothing new. The UK has considered switching to E10 fuel previously. It has consulted on the subject before - and ultimately done nothing. The increased level of interest in the new grade has cropped up again because the government has become almost feverish in its attempts to reduce transport-based CO2 emissions. Shifting to 10 per cent bioethanol in unleaded petrol would, it says, result in the absorption of more CO2 and reduce greenhouse gas emissions at the tailpipe by as much as two per cent - equating to the removal of 350,000 vehicles from UK roads.

A win-win as far as sustaining petrol power for a few more years, you might think - and a quick-fix solution to an emissions problem that's only being exacerbated by the growing demand for heavy, blunt-faced SUVs. But engines not designed to run on this higher concentration of ethanol risk serious internal damage - an issue which helped stall the previously mooted introduction of E10. The question of whether or not older cars are safe to run on the higher mix is one of the reasons the fuel hasn't been fully rolled out in Germany, where E5 is still offered at the pumps.

This would continue in the UK - but only in super-unleaded grades. Fine if you're happy to pay the premium - but not much fun if you simply run an older model which isn't configured to deal with E10. The European Automobile Manufacturers Association has a list of the models that can and can't function - and the number in the latter camp is surprisingly high, including several common, modern variants.

The government breezily dismisses this fact, and says that most of these cars will soon be economically unviable anyway. It also downplays the controversial effect bioethanol has on farming, notably the displacement of land which would otherwise be used for the production of food. Indulging an even breezier tone, it predicts a boost in business for farmers, particularly those in the north east of England. Well, that's that sorted then.

Naturally all this is aimed at solving the unsolvable problem of how to neutralise the UK's production of greenhouse gases by 2050, and follows on from the breeziest strategy of all - new cars becoming electric-only from 2035 onwards. That subject has already presented the industry with many, many polite points of discussion. This will add a few more. Get consulting below.

Author
Discussion

romac

Original Poster:

599 posts

147 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Bring it on!
(so long as it doesn't cost me any more wink )

speedhunter1992

19 posts

70 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
As I read this article, the ad on the page informed me I can have a brand new KIA Picanto for £139/month with 0% APR. Annual road tax for one of these is £145. Fuel consumption on WLTP is listed at 50.4mpg for the 1.25-litre version so, with unleaded at £1.30/litre for argument's sake, fuel cost for 6,000 miles (annual mileage I do in my main car) is £703.55, or £58.63/month. Total so far: £209.71. And that's not including the deposit or insurance or servicing. My main car is a 1997 Fiesta, also with a 1.25-litre engine. It only does an average of 39mpg these days (although that's only 2mpg less than the quoted combined figure) but last year it cost me £155/month to run, all-in. That's £165 VED, insurance, fuel (Shell V-Power), servicing, repairs and an MOT. Old cars no longer being economically viable? I don't think so!

andyj007

305 posts

179 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
like that speedhunter..
the problem is the people who make these diecisons are just idiot and out of touch with reality.. too many idiotic green loving tree hugging pansys who also live in an alternative reality..


Hitch

6,107 posts

195 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
speedhunter1992 said:
As I read this article, the ad on the page informed me I can have a brand new KIA Picanto for £139/month with 0% APR. Annual road tax for one of these is £145. Fuel consumption on WLTP is listed at 50.4mpg for the 1.25-litre version so, with unleaded at £1.30/litre for argument's sake, fuel cost for 6,000 miles (annual mileage I do in my main car) is £703.55, or £58.63/month. Total so far: £209.71. And that's not including the deposit or insurance or servicing. My main car is a 1997 Fiesta, also with a 1.25-litre engine. It only does an average of 39mpg these days (although that's only 2mpg less than the quoted combined figure) but last year it cost me £155/month to run, all-in. That's £165 VED, insurance, fuel (Shell V-Power), servicing, repairs and an MOT. Old cars no longer being economically viable? I don't think so!
I'm not sure what is more strange; that you consider the above to be some sort of sensible comparison or that you're putting V-Power in a 1997 Fiesta!

Interesting that the new car is 20% more fuel efficient (quoted figure to quoted figure) than the 1997 car despite presumably being 20ish% heavier.

Mammasaid

3,883 posts

98 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Farmers won't be able to afford to grow bio crops anyway, as the government are going to take the red diesel subsidy away...

IforB

9,840 posts

230 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
andyj007 said:
like that speedhunter..
the problem is the people who make these diecisons are just idiot and out of touch with reality.. too many idiotic green loving tree hugging pansys who also live in an alternative reality..
Don't blame the Greens for this, this has literally naff all to do with saving the environment, this is a Government who knows they have failed to meet their legal obligations on emissions and are desperately casting around for anyway to do that without understanding the consequences.

We have a crap Government, they make crap decisions. This looks to be another one of them.

speedhunter1992

19 posts

70 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Hitch said:
speedhunter1992 said:
As I read this article, the ad on the page informed me I can have a brand new KIA Picanto for £139/month with 0% APR. Annual road tax for one of these is £145. Fuel consumption on WLTP is listed at 50.4mpg for the 1.25-litre version so, with unleaded at £1.30/litre for argument's sake, fuel cost for 6,000 miles (annual mileage I do in my main car) is £703.55, or £58.63/month. Total so far: £209.71. And that's not including the deposit or insurance or servicing. My main car is a 1997 Fiesta, also with a 1.25-litre engine. It only does an average of 39mpg these days (although that's only 2mpg less than the quoted combined figure) but last year it cost me £155/month to run, all-in. That's £165 VED, insurance, fuel (Shell V-Power), servicing, repairs and an MOT. Old cars no longer being economically viable? I don't think so!
I'm not sure what is more strange; that you consider the above to be some sort of sensible comparison or that you're putting V-Power in a 1997 Fiesta!

Interesting that the new car is 20% more fuel efficient (quoted figure to quoted figure) than the 1997 car despite presumably being 20ish% heavier.
Isn't it a sensible comparison? Both are small, cheap 1.25-litre cars. If they'd been built at the same time, they'd be competitors, surely. If, hypothetically speaking, I was shopping for a brand new, like-for-like car to replace the Fiesta, the Picanto might make the shortlist. Why shouldn't it?

I put V-Power in the Fiesta because it does what it says on the tin: improves low-end torque and cleans the fuel system while it's at it. It's good for the car, even if it's unnecessary. Plus, with a ShellGo+ card I get some of the extra I spend back.

It's not so interesting when you consider that the two cars weigh about the same. Both in the 950-1000kg range (I can't remember the exact numbers). Don't forget the official figures were derived from different tests, though. Not to mention that the Fiesta has 132,000 miles of wear and tear on it.

can't remember

1,079 posts

129 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Misread that as Government ponders £10 petrol for 2021. yikes

cuprabob

14,716 posts

215 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
can't remember said:
Misread that as Government ponders £10 petrol for 2021. yikes
Me too smile

cannedheat

947 posts

276 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
When I’ve used E10 in France (where it’s commonly available alongside E5, and around 10c/L cheaper) I’ve got noticeable worse fuel economy - around 3-4mpg less.

I wonder if the ‘green savings’ take into account the worse fuel economy that’s achieved. I also wonder if it’ll be sold cheaper in the UK (as in France) to compensate...

treeroy

564 posts

86 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
I'm really surprised at how many cars are on that list that can't run on e10. Reading the news today it indicated that it was "classic" cars, so I thought that meant you know 40 year old cars that are classics.

I didn't think it meant 2008 Ford Mondeo, 2004 Audi A4, 2006 vw Golf, etc...

Quite concerning if they were to replace the current fuel with this more eco friendly stuff.

Jim the Sunderer

3,239 posts

183 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
That's a clanger for the Lexus LS460.

u33db

126 posts

57 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
treeroy said:
I'm really surprised at how many cars are on that list that can't run on e10. Reading the news today it indicated that it was "classic" cars, so I thought that meant you know 40 year old cars that are classics.

I didn't think it meant 2008 Ford Mondeo, 2004 Audi A4, 2006 vw Golf, etc...

Quite concerning if they were to replace the current fuel with this more eco friendly stuff.
It doesn't say if my Rover 45 is safe?!

BuzzBravado

2,944 posts

172 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
I wonder what this will do to petrol tanks. With motorbikes with plastic tanks ethanol is known to cause swelling which the leads to fitment issues etc. Ducati's had this problem.

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
speedhunter1992 said:
As I read this article, the ad on the page informed me I can have a brand new KIA Picanto for £139/month with 0% APR. Annual road tax for one of these is £145. Fuel consumption on WLTP is listed at 50.4mpg for the 1.25-litre version so, with unleaded at £1.30/litre for argument's sake, fuel cost for 6,000 miles (annual mileage I do in my main car) is £703.55, or £58.63/month. Total so far: £209.71. And that's not including the deposit or insurance or servicing. My main car is a 1997 Fiesta, also with a 1.25-litre engine. It only does an average of 39mpg these days (although that's only 2mpg less than the quoted combined figure) but last year it cost me £155/month to run, all-in. That's £165 VED, insurance, fuel (Shell V-Power), servicing, repairs and an MOT. Old cars no longer being economically viable? I don't think so!
The advert you saw on this page bears no relation to the subject of the article. It's served to you personally based on your browsing data/cookies. It wasn't put there by PH and wasn't seen by all who are reading this news story. Not sure what this has to do with E10!

Jamescrs

4,497 posts

66 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Just looking on the list at my own cars as I'm sure many will do, I own a Pistonheads favourite MX-5 and it states only Mazda's made after 2002, ok mines an 04 plate but it will exclude every MK1 MX-5 and a good portion of Mk2's

Evanivitch

20,182 posts

123 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Jamescrs said:
Just looking on the list at my own cars as I'm sure many will do, I own a Pistonheads favourite MX-5 and it states only Mazda's made after 2002, ok mines an 04 plate but it will exclude every MK1 MX-5 and a good portion of Mk2's
Supposedly there's be no issue with the NA MX5 owners in E10 countries around Europe and North America.

I'm not bothered personally, if I could run it on e85 tomorrow (i.e. a filling station nearby) then I would.

A500leroy

5,143 posts

119 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
BuzzBravado said:
I wonder what this will do to petrol tanks. With motorbikes with plastic tanks ethanol is known to cause swelling which the leads to fitment issues etc. Ducati's had this problem.
most modern cars have plastic tanks.

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 4th March 2020
quotequote all
Nice and simple for Hondas. All fuel injected models work with E10. Job done smile