Will Coronavirus hit used car prices?
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Exactly. It is about balance. Save a little, spend a little, like most people do.
I think the problem is that for society as a whole, that balance is tipping ever further away from saving towards borrowing. With interest rates being so low for so long it was inevitable and arguably even necessary, but it's still going to cause a lot of pain when inflation picks up again and interest rates start to rise. It feels like we're getting to the point in the UK where increasing debt is being viewed as a replacement for actual economic productivity and that's not sustainable long-term.
Earthdweller said:
I’ve seen quite a few people I know get into significant difficulty over the cumulative payments they’ve signed up to. It’s only £50 here £100 there etc add it all up and suddenly it’s an “oh f
k moment”
Very true. At the start of this year I was feeling uneasy about a few things - had a car on lease at £300 a month and a monthly phone bill for an iphone of around £55. I swapped the car out early and now pay £200/month for a similar car and for the first time ever, did not take a new phone when my contract expired in March - result: total saving £140 a month.k moment”nickfrog said:
So you never buy anything new presumably.
I wouldn't go that far, but I tend to buy practical things these days and don't really expect new things to make a big impact on my happiness - for me the buzz wears off so quickly there's no point, and I'd just end up staring at an expensive liability parked up outside. And given that despite unprecedented material wealth our society seems to be making lots of people mentally ill, I think it's worth being sceptical about consumerism. There does seem to be a trend towards more traditional pursuits i.e. baking, gardening etc. that aren't so completely focused on mindless consumption, so perhaps there's hope.Camelot1971 said:
What do you determine as a worthwhile career? Who are you to determine what other people do with their lives?
If you remove credit from the economy, there will be little return on investments or savings either. Lending pays the returns for savings and investments.
Probably not worth us getting into a debate on Utilitarianism etc., but you seem to want to shut down the question entirely - whereas I'd suggest that unless you think we are living in a utopia already it's worthwhile - indeed healthy - to question whether society is employing the potential of its population to the maximum good of all. Which is all that I'm doing.If you remove credit from the economy, there will be little return on investments or savings either. Lending pays the returns for savings and investments.
On credit it's a question of where you draw the line. Presumably you are not suggesting that all credit is good, and thus by extrapolation we should all therefore have infinite credit?
Deep Thought said:
Sneering contempt and schadenfreude have never been celebrated.
You seem extremely hostile to the mere expression of an opposing point of view, to the extent of throwing slurs around. All it took was for me to suggest that disconnecting from debt might enable society to revert to a simpler, happier state.There. I said it again.
growlerowl said:
Deep Thought said:
Sneering contempt and schadenfreude have never been celebrated.
You seem extremely hostile to the mere expression of an opposing point of view, to the extent of throwing slurs around. All it took was for me to suggest that disconnecting from debt might enable society to revert to a simpler, happier state.There. I said it again.
growlerowl said:
Deep Thought said:
Sneering contempt and schadenfreude have never been celebrated.
You seem extremely hostile to the mere expression of an opposing point of view, to the extent of throwing slurs around. All it took was for me to suggest that disconnecting from debt might enable society to revert to a simpler, happier state.There. I said it again.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 29th May 12:04
Throttlebody said:
nickfrog said:
Throttlebody said:
More detail on how the Govt is going to trim furlough from Aug will now be starting to concentrate business minds.
Not sure what business minds you're talking about but people in business have been concentrating for a long time before you came along. And particularly since the start of the crisis. And before furlough was announced. And before the way it was going to be tapered was mentionned a few weeks ago already. zainster said:
OddCat said:
Why did you sell after just 4 months ?
Combination of things really. Recent redundancies at work made me start to feel uneasy. Also I've been working from home ever since the lockdown and unlikely to be back in the office this year so it wasn't getting used. Then I'm hearing/ reading about impending recessions, likely to be the worst ever and just thought sell now, money in bank and see what happens but without any worries really. Did love it and that fantastic 4.0TT V8 but I could always get another in the future. Burnham said:
So, other people may have the same thoughts right...does that mean Coronavirus may hit used car prices?
But on the other hand, how many people will have decided to keep their existing car rather than replacing it with a brand new one, thus stifling supply of second hand vehicles; or have decided to buy a second-hand car instead of a new one due to change in circumstances. The current situation will put pressure on the second hand market in both directions; I don't think it's at all clear which pressure will have the greater effect. I rather suspect the overall effect will be pretty small either way.
From a personal standpoint I hope prices do fall because our family car is reaching the end of its life and needs replacing. I can see no evidence of it happening so far, though.
Edited by kambites on Friday 29th May 12:16
kambites said:
Burnham said:
So, other people may have the same thoughts right...does that mean Coronavirus may hit used car prices?
But on the other hand, how many people will have decided to keep their existing car rather than replacing it with a brand new one, thus stifling supply of second hand vehicles; or have decided to buy a second-hand car instead of a new one due to change in circumstances. The current situation will put pressure on the second hand market in both directions; I don't think it's at all clear which pressure will have the greater effect.
And also people may well still change their car - to right size, downsize or to something more economical or cheaper to insure.
Which will still generate movement in the market, but may put pressure on certain types of car, either in a + or - way.
Camelot1971 said:
You've still not explained why you want the car industry to be punished? Why do YOU care so much about an industry you don't work in and have no means by which to even buy a new car? It's almost like a personal vendetta.
Aren't we here to discuss CV and user car prices? What does it matter what motivates him?Welshbeef said:
paddy1970 said:
Why has my car depreciated the most? FFS. 
growlerowl said:
You seem extremely hostile to the mere expression of an opposing point of view, to the extent of throwing slurs around. All it took was for me to suggest that disconnecting from debt might enable society to revert to a simpler, happier state.
There. I said it again.
That's assuming that your opinion that "society is broken" is true. I don't share that view. There. I said it again.
Personaly I find that buying new things can make my life (even) happier. But I also really enjoy the simple and almost free activities that you mention, like gardening or a daily walk in the countryside right behind my house.
The two are not incompatible. It's about balance. No need for binary views or sweeping statements or entranched views, once again.
Edited by nickfrog on Friday 29th May 13:56
tinyboytim said:
I sense that access to credit will be harder to come by very soon. Have you seen the profit warnings and share price of the main financial institutions recently. Not good. Their operating margins will need to increase. Bad news for lenders. Bad news for cheap car deals. Less demand going forward.
Couple that in with the raft of profit warnings, restructuring and redundancies from the major car manufacturers, who are wise enough to know demand will be reducing, and you have a potential serious financial liquidity and low consumer demand cocktail.Interesting insight here from Nationwide about the profile of people applying for payment breaks to mortgages and loans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52847131
Mr Garner said that 280,000 of its members had taken a payment break, the vast majority of which were mortgage holders.
"Probably the very first people to apply would be those who are really on top of their financial position and we know there are a lot of people who have taken them as a precaution, and will go back to paying in full at the first opportunity," he said.
Of further interest -
"The UK banking sector has approved 1.8 million mortgage holidays during the crisis, according to figures from trade body UK Finance.
There have also been 877,800 freezes on credit cards, up 26% since the start of the month, and 608,000 payment holidays on personal loans, up 30% over the same period."
So not just affecting the car industry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52847131
Mr Garner said that 280,000 of its members had taken a payment break, the vast majority of which were mortgage holders.
"Probably the very first people to apply would be those who are really on top of their financial position and we know there are a lot of people who have taken them as a precaution, and will go back to paying in full at the first opportunity," he said.
Of further interest -
"The UK banking sector has approved 1.8 million mortgage holidays during the crisis, according to figures from trade body UK Finance.
There have also been 877,800 freezes on credit cards, up 26% since the start of the month, and 608,000 payment holidays on personal loans, up 30% over the same period."
So not just affecting the car industry.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 29th May 14:19
Deep Thought said:
Interesting insight here from Nationwide about the profile of people applying for payment breaks to mortgages and loans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52847131
Mr Garner said that 280,000 of its members had taken a payment break, the vast majority of which were mortgage holders.
"Probably the very first people to apply would be those who are really on top of their financial position and we know there are a lot of people who have taken them as a precaution, and will go back to paying in full at the first opportunity," he said.
Of further interest -
"The UK banking sector has approved 1.8 million mortgage holidays during the crisis, according to figures from trade body UK Finance.
There have also been 877,800 freezes on credit cards, up 26% since the start of the month, and 608,000 payment holidays on personal loans, up 30% over the same period."
So not just affecting the car industry.
A quick Google suggests there are roughly 11m mortgages in the UK. So nearly 20% have taken a payment holiday!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52847131
Mr Garner said that 280,000 of its members had taken a payment break, the vast majority of which were mortgage holders.
"Probably the very first people to apply would be those who are really on top of their financial position and we know there are a lot of people who have taken them as a precaution, and will go back to paying in full at the first opportunity," he said.
Of further interest -
"The UK banking sector has approved 1.8 million mortgage holidays during the crisis, according to figures from trade body UK Finance.
There have also been 877,800 freezes on credit cards, up 26% since the start of the month, and 608,000 payment holidays on personal loans, up 30% over the same period."
So not just affecting the car industry.
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 29th May 14:19
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