Coronavirus = empty roads

[Antony Moxey]

sparkyhx said:

Antony Moxey said:

While we’re all on here being smartarses about going for drives on empty roads, visiting deserted wilderness or cycling for ten hours, is there any genuine reason why we can’t do as the government insists and simply stay at home? Most people seem to be managing, why do some think they’re a special case that the rules don’t apply to?

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no arguement.

......... But of course the suicide rate and domestic abuse rate will rocket.

I didn't think it necessary to quote all the caveats to the 'stay at home' message, I'm more on about those in my first sentence above.

[Evoluzione]

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

[markyb_lcy]

LM24Nut said:

markyb_lcy said:

I’m also interested in what shootings and stabbings have actually taken place in SE London during the crisis because I’m not seeing that at all. Crime by all accounts is down by rather staggering amounts. I live in SE London too (for my sins) and I’m generally on top of local news. Admittedly some of that may be much further down the news agenda but I’d still expect to see it if it was happening.

There was a crackdown during the lockdown last week

Operation Sceptre in numbers in Croydon, Sutton and Bromley:

230 weapon sweeps
225 stop and searches
63 arrests – for possession of knives and weapons, possession of drugs, robbery, knife crime, violence and burglary.
50 seizures – this includes 15 knives, four knuckle dusters, two axes, one taser, two imitation firearms, £30,000 in cash and 26 separate drug seizures of large amounts of cocaine and cannabis

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/18358649.violen...

225 stop and searches? Can’t all be joggers, surely?

This is some good news then. I guess a drop in the rate of street crime has enabled the usually overwhelmed police to get more proactive. “Every cloud” etc.

[DonkeyApple]

Evoluzione said:

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

I would think that exercise has never been more important given the circumstances. I also suspect that as data is collated and analysed over the coming months it may also show that voluntarily unhealthy individuals are higher risk given that this disease attacks the lungs.

[cerb4.5lee]

Evoluzione said:

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

It is also a great excuse for people to take the piss though(driving to parks to exercise/walk dogs for example) and that is what annoys me about it.

I think that exercise should be banned too. When I was out food shopping on Saturday morning I saw more cyclists than I did cars on the roads...people just taking the piss again.

[DonkeyApple]

cerb4.5lee said:

Evoluzione said:

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

It is also a great excuse for people to take the piss though(driving to parks to exercise/walk dogs for example) and that is what annoys me about it.

I think that exercise should be banned too. When I was out food shopping on Saturday morning I saw more cyclists than I did cars on the roads...people just taking the piss again.

I feel that it is a fair trade off. Of course some people will take the piss but I think it is preferable to the Spanish or Italian situation which has been essential probably because of their culture.

And let’s not forget that our Govt fully sanctioned cycling and has gone so far as to allow bike shops to remain open as essential businesses while on the other hand they have specifically told people not to drive other than for essential shopping, medical or work requirements and closed all car businesses.

[sparkyhx]

DonkeyApple said:

Evoluzione said:

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

I would think that exercise has never been more important given the circumstances. I also suspect that as data is collated and analysed over the coming months it may also show that voluntarily unhealthy individuals are higher risk given that this disease attacks the lungs.

Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.

[donkmeister]

sparkyhx said:

Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.

Why do you think space missions of any significant duration go to such lengths to ensure sufficient physical activity for the astro/cosmo/taiko/othernauts involved?

What happens when you don't exercise in space is an accelerated version of what happens when you don't exercise on earth.

Your prerogative at the end of the day, but this is up there with "I smoke 40 a day, why shouldn't I?" ie it's up to you, but it isn't a good idea.

[sparkyhx]

DonkeyApple said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Evoluzione said:

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

It is also a great excuse for people to take the piss though(driving to parks to exercise/walk dogs for example) and that is what annoys me about it.

I think that exercise should be banned too. When I was out food shopping on Saturday morning I saw more cyclists than I did cars on the roads...people just taking the piss again.

I feel that it is a fair trade off. Of course some people will take the piss but I think it is preferable to the Spanish or Italian situation which has been essential probably because of their culture.

And let’s not forget that our Govt fully sanctioned cycling and has gone so far as to allow bike shops to remain open as essential businesses while on the other hand they have specifically told people not to drive other than for essential shopping, medical or work requirements and closed all car businesses.

They haven't sanctioned the lycra brigade level of cycling. I don't believe for one second the cyclists I have seen are out for a quick 1hr cycle.

Keeping cycle shops open and closing garages (really?) is also inconsistent and illogical, most people NEED cars to go to the shops, very few people NEED a bike to do anything.

I desperately want to get out, get the roof down and get into the countryside in my car, I need to for my mental health, its how I relax, that and shooting although I've managed to set myself up a 'fair weather' range in the garden.

[thelostboy]

sparkyhx said:

I don't exercise, generally never have, never will.

I don't suspect many people would respect your opinions after that.

The fact you don't exercise - ever - shows a lack of education and/or ignorance of the importance of good health and how it affects you. It will cumulatively affect you in your later life whether you realise the actions of a lifetime are the cause, or not.

We aren't sedentary creatures - we are designed to move. I certainly haven't had an issue exercising away from others, and I don't see an issue with people going for a cycle.

Without any other figures to relate to, the assumption seems to be that you can catch the Coronavirus by glancing at someone. Do people really think a cyclist is some kind of fast-moving cloud of infection, leaving a trail of victims in their wake?

[sparkyhx]

donkmeister said:

sparkyhx said:

Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.

Why do you think space missions of any significant duration go to such lengths to ensure sufficient physical activity for the astro/cosmo/taiko/othernauts involved?

What happens when you don't exercise in space is an accelerated version of what happens when you don't exercise on earth.

Your prerogative at the end of the day, but this is up there with "I smoke 40 a day, why shouldn't I?" ie it's up to you, but it isn't a good idea.

What?????????? what a completely specious argument

We are not in space, nobodies muscles are going to atrophy in a couple of months, I've had 40 years of general inactivity, I'm still managing to walk around without aid

[donkmeister]

sparkyhx said:

donkmeister said:

sparkyhx said:

Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.

Why do you think space missions of any significant duration go to such lengths to ensure sufficient physical activity for the astro/cosmo/taiko/othernauts involved?

What happens when you don't exercise in space is an accelerated version of what happens when you don't exercise on earth.

Your prerogative at the end of the day, but this is up there with "I smoke 40 a day, why shouldn't I?" ie it's up to you, but it isn't a good idea.

What?????????? what a completely specious argument

We are not in space, nobodies muscles are going to atrophy in a couple of months, I've had 40 years of general inactivity, I'm still managing to walk around without aid

I see the word "accelerated" passed you by... It's not just muscle atrophy, it's osteoporosis, it's stiff ligaments, it's visceral fat. I'm far from a shining example of what to do with a human body and I've not died but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have a longer, happier life if I got off my butt a bit more often.
Yes, I'm frustrated that I can't enjoy these empty roads in my car but I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram about it.

[swisstoni]

Just to clarify, I'm with those who think that the need for external exercise is being overplayed by people who just want to go out and nose around.
Most of them would have sat on their behinds if it wasn't for the fact that they are being asked to do just that.

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 6th April 12:26

[markyb_lcy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

outdoor exercise was not only allowed in the guidance but recommended. Your body should be exposed to sunlight daily. Ok, sure, some can use gardens but not all.

Those of you who want to "go further" and not leave your house whatsoever, that's fine, it's your right to, though I wouldn't personally recommend it and it would appear that the chief governmental scientists wouldn't either (or their advice would reflect that).

So sure, do what you want to do within the advice and the law, but please (and this isn't directed at you personally) don't criticise others who make other choices but are still within the advice and law.

Why would they remove the advice to exercise because people are following the advice and exercising? They might issue further guidance, around times and distance travelled from home etc, but I cannot see them rescinding their advice to do daily outdoor exercise.

[cerb4.5lee]

sparkyhx said:

DonkeyApple said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Evoluzione said:

sparkyhx said:

I refer you to my previous post, the rules aren't "stay at home" they allow for shopping and exercise. This is illogical, exercise is NOT necessary. For what reason is exercise allowed? It is far more logical and consistent to ban exercise and then there is no argument.

Because it's good for both physical and mental health and well being.

It is also a great excuse for people to take the piss though(driving to parks to exercise/walk dogs for example) and that is what annoys me about it.

I think that exercise should be banned too. When I was out food shopping on Saturday morning I saw more cyclists than I did cars on the roads...people just taking the piss again.

I feel that it is a fair trade off. Of course some people will take the piss but I think it is preferable to the Spanish or Italian situation which has been essential probably because of their culture.

And let’s not forget that our Govt fully sanctioned cycling and has gone so far as to allow bike shops to remain open as essential businesses while on the other hand they have specifically told people not to drive other than for essential shopping, medical or work requirements and closed all car businesses.

They haven't sanctioned the lycra brigade level of cycling. I don't believe for one second the cyclists I have seen are out for a quick 1hr cycle.

Keeping cycle shops open and closing garages (really?) is also inconsistent and illogical, most people NEED cars to go to the shops, very few people NEED a bike to do anything.

I desperately want to get out, get the roof down and get into the countryside in my car, I need to for my mental health, its how I relax, that and shooting although I've managed to set myself up a 'fair weather' range in the garden.

I'm another one that thoroughly enjoys driving roof down just for fun, and I'm pretty frustrated that I can't do it now because it is one of the things that I enjoy doing the most. In some ways I wished that I'd not purchased it(only had it a year) because everytime I go in the garage and see it just sitting there it winds me up...because I can't make the best of the clear blue skys that we have currently.

Maybe I'm just being too silly about it and I need to just get a grip...but I am very frustrated by it though for sure.

[thelostboy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not so helpful if you're in a bedsit.

And has been covered, there is mental well-being to consider. Taking away someone's right to move around is a big deal. Then you have people with pre-existing mental health issues, anxiety etc. Your inability to work this out other than purely viewing things against your own way of life is letting you down here.

Saying "the health downsides of going outdoors and either spreading coronavirus or catching it yourself are much worse than the benefits of exercise" is a fact-free argument. It is merely your opinion, yet you are stating it as if it's factual.

[markyb_lcy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You're forgetting daily exposure to sunlight, which is important for general all round health and the immune system particularly. That's not possible in a bedsit, and I surmise why it is included in the official govt guidance to take "outdoor" exercise.

If we all stay in 24/7 for a year and those without gardens or indoor space don't take exercise, we might avoid the use of a few ventilators now but we will precipitate the use of ventilators (for some) further down the line.

I appreciate that you're putting your arguments across with some finesse and logic and therefore you're not in the #stayathome ranting brigade imo, and for that you deserve credit, however the government scientists are more qualified and more authoritative than you, so you shouldn't be surprised people are following their advice rather than your (slightly more restrictive) advice.

[sparkyhx]

thelostboy said:

sparkyhx said:

I don't exercise, generally never have, never will.

I don't suspect many people would respect your opinions after that.

The fact you don't exercise - ever - shows a lack of education and/or ignorance of the importance of good health and how it affects you. It will cumulatively affect you in your later life whether you realise the actions of a lifetime are the cause, or not.

We aren't sedentary creatures - we are designed to move. I certainly haven't had an issue exercising away from others, and I don't see an issue with people going for a cycle.

Without any other figures to relate to, the assumption seems to be that you can catch the Coronavirus by glancing at someone. Do people really think a cyclist is some kind of fast-moving cloud of infection, leaving a trail of victims in their wake?

I used to get my exercise walking to and from work from bus stop/tube car park, and walking round work however I don't do sport (other than shooting) and I don't go to the gym.

but you miss the point, the exercise rule is nonsense and illogical , nothing is going to drastically happen physically if you don't exercise for 2 months. Your mental health may suffer more than your physical health, that I agree on. However there are lots of self isolating activities that would aid mental health but do not come under 'exercise' and are therefore 'advised against' e.g. going for a drive. Why is that solution to mental health not allowed?. Why is driving to somewhere to have a walk not allowed, but cycling for miles and miles allowed. Its the inconsistency, and lack of logic.

I don't have a problem with cyclists or people driving to a location or 10 hr walks along the pennine way etc etc as long as they isolate.

I have a problem with the inconsistency and lack of logic.

[sparkyhx]

donkmeister said:

sparkyhx said:

donkmeister said:

sparkyhx said:

Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.

Why do you think space missions of any significant duration go to such lengths to ensure sufficient physical activity for the astro/cosmo/taiko/othernauts involved?

What happens when you don't exercise in space is an accelerated version of what happens when you don't exercise on earth.

Your prerogative at the end of the day, but this is up there with "I smoke 40 a day, why shouldn't I?" ie it's up to you, but it isn't a good idea.

What?????????? what a completely specious argument

We are not in space, nobodies muscles are going to atrophy in a couple of months, I've had 40 years of general inactivity, I'm still managing to walk around without aid

I see the word "accelerated" passed you by... It's not just muscle atrophy, it's osteoporosis, it's stiff ligaments, it's visceral fat. I'm far from a shining example of what to do with a human body and I've not died but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have a longer, happier life if I got off my butt a bit more often.
Yes, I'm frustrated that I can't enjoy these empty roads in my car but I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram about it.

Are you being deliberately dumb, I said specious, I didn't say your argument is wrong, just irrelevant to the situation. NOTHING IS GOING TO DRASTICALLY HAPPEN PHYICALLY TO ANYONE IF THEY DONT DO EXERCISE IN THE FEW MONTHS WE WILL BE IN LOCKDOWN.
Please disabuse me of this if you have evidence to the contrary.

and as for toys out the pram, the car is still outside the house exactly where it has been since end of Feb quite possibly with a flat battery., my other car is in the garage and its been on a battery conditioner since mid September last year.

[sparkyhx]

[redacted]