RE: First details of Aston Martin's all-new V6
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
The biggest challenge for AML with this new engine is going to be the productionisation of it. When you buy a high performance engine from Merc, you buy the benefit of an absolutely enourmous amount of reliability and manufacturing investment, runing to the tune of many, mnay millions, meaning your 150bhp/litre engine is relatively speaking, bomb proof and easy to build. This new engine looks mostly like a race engine (certainly at the moment where everything is soft tooled (ie CNC'd not cast) and turning it into an engine that can be built on a line (even at low volume) and an engine that is totally reliable is an enourmous challenger for a small team, certainly way more of a challange than extracting the target amount of power from it (which these days is trivial tbh)
Indeed - and the Hot V idea has proven a struggle even for BMW. The warranty costs in the USA where the V8 is far more common than here is startling, both N63 and the M5's S63 offshoot. It sounds a great idea but it just cooks everything alive and the heat soak is so great that BMW had to have a separate cooling system for the turbos. A separate coolant pump has to pump coolant around the turbos after the engine is switched off to get some of the heat away. That in turn put massive strain on the battery. BMW have worked hard and made Hot V just this side of reliable.
This has got TVR written all over it.
Touring442 said:
Indeed - and the Hot V idea has proven a struggle even for BMW. The warranty costs in the USA where the V8 is far more common than here is startling, both N63 and the M5's S63 offshoot. It sounds a great idea but it just cooks everything alive and the heat soak is so great that BMW had to have a separate cooling system for the turbos. A separate coolant pump has to pump coolant around the turbos after the engine is switched off to get some of the heat away. That in turn put massive strain on the battery.
BMW have worked hard and made Hot V just this side of reliable.
Mercedes well AMG specifically seem to do quite well with the Hot V design, are they not particularly reliable?BMW have worked hard and made Hot V just this side of reliable.
Touring442 said:
Max_Torque said:
The biggest challenge for AML with this new engine is going to be the productionisation of it. When you buy a high performance engine from Merc, you buy the benefit of an absolutely enourmous amount of reliability and manufacturing investment, runing to the tune of many, mnay millions, meaning your 150bhp/litre engine is relatively speaking, bomb proof and easy to build. This new engine looks mostly like a race engine (certainly at the moment where everything is soft tooled (ie CNC'd not cast) and turning it into an engine that can be built on a line (even at low volume) and an engine that is totally reliable is an enourmous challenger for a small team, certainly way more of a challange than extracting the target amount of power from it (which these days is trivial tbh)
Indeed - and the Hot V idea has proven a struggle even for BMW. The warranty costs in the USA where the V8 is far more common than here is startling, both N63 and the M5's S63 offshoot. It sounds a great idea but it just cooks everything alive and the heat soak is so great that BMW had to have a separate cooling system for the turbos. A separate coolant pump has to pump coolant around the turbos after the engine is switched off to get some of the heat away. That in turn put massive strain on the battery. BMW have worked hard and made Hot V just this side of reliable.
This has got TVR written all over it.
832ark said:
ManyMotors said:
The V6 in the 1986/87 Buick Grand National was a wonderfully powerful lump. AM is making their own, similar, and maybe perfect, example. I hope they sell...
A whopping 64bhp/litre from a forced induction motor? That was s
t even in late 80s.The V6 engine, when you look beyond F1, has been very under utilised over the years, but if a compact, punchy, lightweight engine is required, it's near-perfect. I expect the problem for some will be they've become accustom to more, and the "bigger is better" mentality is fine in the old world, but the new, small capacity, efficient engines will outperform the larger, older, heavier engines, and in Aston's case, without losing any of the character and sound.
Touring442 said:
As long as that?
It'll be fine then.
I think because of the fascination / obsession with the share price, the actual work going at the company, and the products it's designing, building and selling, is often seen as secondary, or even not worthy of conversation. As the Valkyrie thread demonstrated, some think that car's somehow evolved from an straight six DB7...It'll be fine then.
There's some utterly fantastic things in the pipeline, but it'll likely never be given a fair hearing on this forum, but that's alright, some of us will enjoy them (assuming I'm around to see it)
I'd like to see inside one of these engines. The problem with most modern engines is cost cutting - ste Jwis timing chains, plastic guides, rubber seals in place of proper steel gaskets, that kind of thing. If they can make it properly and run the engine at a temperature that doesn't cook the thing to death then it might be OK.
It's good to see there isn't the usual plethora of plastic housings to be seen.
te Jwis timing chains, plastic guides, rubber seals in place of proper steel gaskets, that kind of thing. If they can make it properly and run the engine at a temperature that doesn't cook the thing to death then it might be OK. It's good to see there isn't the usual plethora of plastic housings to be seen.
Touring442 said:
I'd like to see inside one of these engines. The problem with most modern engines is cost cutting - ste Jwis timing chains, plastic guides, rubber seals in place of proper steel gaskets, that kind of thing. If they can make it properly and run the engine at a temperature that doesn't cook the thing to death then it might be OK.
It's good to see there isn't the usual plethora of plastic housings to be seen.
Rubber seals and metal gaskets serve two different purposes. Up until the point where they age hardened a rubber seal will provide a better seal than steel. But, it can’t cope with high pressure or temperature, then you move to a metal gasket.te Jwis timing chains, plastic guides, rubber seals in place of proper steel gaskets, that kind of thing. If they can make it properly and run the engine at a temperature that doesn't cook the thing to death then it might be OK. It's good to see there isn't the usual plethora of plastic housings to be seen.
ducnick said:
Maserati did the same thing in the 80’s:
Take the 90 degree V8... cut it short. Add 2 turbos, hey presto... 90 degree biturbo v6. It worked well for them and resulted in a truly epic little engine. Hopefully this works out for Aston and Merc don’t sue them for too much.
On what basis would Mercedes be able to sue?Take the 90 degree V8... cut it short. Add 2 turbos, hey presto... 90 degree biturbo v6. It worked well for them and resulted in a truly epic little engine. Hopefully this works out for Aston and Merc don’t sue them for too much.
I see no evidence that this is related to any Mercedes engine
George Smiley said:
Conversely, BEV's have the same lack of tactile feedback yet it works as an overall package as they are built on the promise of less driver involvement. I cannot help but feel that AM should be developing a BEV supercar as ICE is just dull in comparison
What is the point of a supercar designed to have less driver involvement? Surely thats the antithesis of the supercar? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff