RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review

RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review

Author
Discussion

Bill

41,379 posts

208 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
100 said:
what Can a defender do that a Range Rover can’t????
Carry 6/7, cost <£50k, do more rough stuff before things break or wear out, not carry RR baggage.

dazmanultra

226 posts

45 months

Friday 27th March
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I actually really like the new Defender, the biggest downside it has against it in my mind is the cost. A decent spec seems to come to £60-£65k and there's a lot of other options in that bracket, not least from LR themselves - Discovery or a RR Sport for example.

Deranged Rover

478 posts

27 months

Friday 27th March
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I like it, I really do.

But I'm still struggling to see the point of it, or what its target market is.

AngryPartsBloke

964 posts

104 months

Friday 27th March
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dazmanultra said:
I actually really like the new Defender, the biggest downside it has against it in my mind is the cost. A decent spec seems to come to £60-£65k and there's a lot of other options in that bracket, not least from LR themselves - Discovery or a RR Sport for example.
A RRS starts at £64k, one with a similar amount of options as a defender in the £60-65k Mark will easily be high £80ks.

Definitely think there will be some crossover in potential customers for the Defender and Discovery, but not many.

LimaDelta

4,220 posts

171 months

Friday 27th March
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user0000001 said:
braddo said:
You're not being treated any differently by the way - just go read about PH's naming and shaming rules.

I didn't see your post but if you post similar stuff on other forums don't be surprised if it gets taken down again (clearly this depends on each forum's posting rules).

smile
I'm not that fussed, just wanted folks to know a bit more behind the scenes.
Part of sidestepping the non-compete is so I can make a small business offering fixes to some of the flaws, so it's in my best interest to stfu really.
You could always re-write it in a way which highlights the wonderfully progressive way JLR embraced form over function and didn't bother themselves with such outdated trivialities like fitness-for-purpose or practicality. Surely there is no 'shame' in that? You could praise the design team for requiring no input whatsoever from those bothersome engineers with their slide-rules and common sense. You could tell us how lucky we are that we didn't end up with a slightly larger, LWB Suzuki Jimny - who would want to park that outside their tanning salon! How about managements foresight to ensure a completely spare factory is available in case one of them is broken? A stroke of genius! Not to mention the environmental benefits of ensuring fewer RRs are built by tying up the production line with these new and totally worthy of the name Defenders? Would that work? And of course, should they fail to sell, then it will all be Covid19's fault, and nothing to do with the vehicle itself. Just bad timing and bad luck.

J4CKO

30,176 posts

153 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Shakermaker said:
How have so many of you missed the part that a commercial version is due, but hasn't been launched yet?
Here is a list of attributes that define what a "Defender" was, or indeed a list that could equally apply pretty much the entire line of Land Rover models from the 1948 80" Series 1 through the vehicles evolution (Series II, IIa, III, Stage 1), right up to the final 2016 Defender model.

  • Modular body design
  • Utilitarian premised
  • Ladder chassis
  • Live axles
  • Birmabright panels
  • Folding windscreen
  • Removable door tops
  • PTO capability
  • Manual gearboxes
  • V8 engines
  • Proper suspension flex and axle articulation
  • Heavy duty hub and PCD
  • Pickup variants
  • Boxy body design and flat panels
  • Relatively small vehicle foot print and narrow width
  • Function over form rather than form over function
  • Native off road capability of the design and platform without needing to rely on electronics to give it any ability in the rough
  • Non plush interiors (another function over form thing)
  • Simple and durable design
  • Sensible tough bumpers and a lack of painted plastic
  • A vehicle that you feel connected to your surroundings in, rather than distanced. On road and especially off road.

Does this new model share any of the above?
I wouldn't ever buy an old one, have driven them, largely purgatorial on road, not connected. they have some charm but having driven one some distance, that novelty wore off after 30 minutes.

This is a modern car, and it isnt aimed at the target market for the old model, which original was for the military, farmers and the like, JLR cottoned onto the fact that certain urban hipsters bought the old one and festooned them in stuff to make them look extra rusty tufty, then generally sold them fairly quickly as they are a pain in the arse irrespective of how nice the wheels are, how many LED lights are fitted and how much colour coordination goes on.


They cant make money out of farmers and those blokes who off road, as they generally either cant afford a new one, or buy something Japanese anyway.

JLR are manufacturers of premium vehicles, not farm and military equipment, this is just another SUV, albeit more capable than average and will sell to those who bought the old one at the end of its life and new buyers who want a bit of the Land Rover thing, all neatly and nicely packaged.

They were never going to produce something with that list of features, should perhaps called it something different to stop all the "Proper" Land Rover enthusiasts banging on, not that they care as it will sell very nicely, and that is what they want it to do, not please someone with a 1996 one, who would still moan anyway.





PushedDover

985 posts

6 months

Friday 27th March
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user0000001 said:
user0000001 said:
I've not removed it?
Does anyone else have a copy of it as it's been deleted from my replies etc

Edited by user0000001 on Friday 27th March 15:14
I've had this email from Pistonheads:-

Hi,

Your reply to the topic 'RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender | The short review' has been removed for the following reason:

As we cannot confirm whether your post is factually incorrect or not, we have taken your post down as it is defamatory to JLR. Please do not post in this manner again.

Thanks

Regards,
PistonHeads

I'm guessing this isn't the forum for free speech then?
What a great shame and disappointing way for a Moderator to stifle the informative post - it came across as an insightful view of the sequence of events that let to the Defender.

Why couldn't a 'warning shot' of - "this may be your experience, please prove it - or turn it down on the content.'

PH could have had a scoop.

AngryPartsBloke

964 posts

104 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
PushedDover said:
What a great shame and disappointing way for a Moderator to stifle the informative post - it came across as an insightful view of the sequence of events that let to the Defender.

Why couldn't a 'warning shot' of - "this may be your experience, please prove it - or turn it down on the content.'

PH could have had a scoop.
No, it didn't. It came across as the delusional ramblings of an arrogant engineer at best.

Of course its enough for the likes of you to claim its some sort of smoking gun that validates your own delusions. It really speaks volumes about those who believe it.

PushedDover

985 posts

6 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
As it stands at the moment, lots of journalists with first hand experience driving the new defender through Nambia think it's great,
On an all expenses paid junket to Nambia to clown around, and try to trash a car, I'd imagine a Lada Riva would even score well.

AngryPartsBloke

964 posts

104 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
PushedDover said:
On an all expenses paid junket to Nambia to clown around, and try to trash a car, I'd imagine a Lada Riva would even score well.
Of course that must be it, but a random post on the Internet from someone who has never posted here before is undeniably accurate?

Have you suffered a head injury or are your critical thinking skills really this poor?

user0000001

14 posts

144 months

Friday 27th March
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AngryPartsBloke said:
Of course that must be it, but a random post on the Internet from someone who has never posted here before is undeniably accurate?

Have you suffered a head injury or are your critical thinking skills really this poor?
How does 903 posts of opinion improve your accuracy?

Like I said, what proof would you like?

LP670

569 posts

79 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
PushedDover said:
On an all expenses paid junket to Nambia to clown around, and try to trash a car, I'd imagine a Lada Riva would even score well.
Of course that must be it, but a random post on the Internet from someone who has never posted here before is undeniably accurate?

Have you suffered a head injury or are your critical thinking skills really this poor?
never trust a journalist, they are as bad as politicians. this guy might not have posted until now but hes been a member for 12 years so its not like hes just joined to pick fault with the car in question, hes just maintained silence, but this subject is obviously something he felt the need to speak up about.

user0000001

14 posts

144 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
LP670 said:
never trust a journalist, they are as bad as politicians. this guy might not have posted until now but hes been a member for 12 years so its not like hes just joined to pick fault with the car in question, hes just maintained silence, but this subject is obviously something he felt the need to speak up about.
Thank you.

I only found my way here from the review that popped up on my Google feed, and when I tried to reply it told me I already had a profile from when I sold a car on here in 2008.

Employees can and do get sacked for speaking about development projects, but now I've left I've got no issue with sharing.

I just don't want anyone thinking that JLR Engineering were responsible for what was launched; styling and engineering were virtually at civil war with each other over L663 since the DC100 days, but we lost. I was trying to explain why.

PushedDover

985 posts

6 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
Of course that must be it, but a random post on the Internet from someone who has never posted here before is undeniably accurate?

Have you suffered a head injury or are your critical thinking skills really this poor?
Why be rude to me ?

longblackcoat

4,338 posts

136 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
user0000001 said:
Thank you.

I only found my way here from the review that popped up on my Google feed, and when I tried to reply it told me I already had a profile from when I sold a car on here in 2008.

Employees can and do get sacked for speaking about development projects, but now I've left I've got no issue with sharing.

I just don't want anyone thinking that JLR Engineering were responsible for what was launched; styling and engineering were virtually at civil war with each other over L663 since the DC100 days, but we lost. I was trying to explain why.
It was exactly the same at Ford when I worked there - the engineers were convinced that they were right, that stylists/marketing/accountants were all tossers. Looks like nothing's changed; the arrogance of the engineers continues to be
absolutely breathtaking.

AngryPartsBloke

964 posts

104 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
PushedDover said:
Why be rude to me ?
I'm sorry, that was unfair of me. I don't wish to be rude, it's just very frustrating when these threads get derailed by people who are incapable of having a proper conversation and are adament that they're opinion is right regardless of all other objective evidence to the contrary and then latch on to a post by some person who claims to be something that on all liklihood they're not.

AngryPartsBloke

964 posts

104 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
longblackcoat said:
It was exactly the same at Ford when I worked there - the engineers were convinced that they were right, that stylists/marketing/accountants were all tossers. Looks like nothing's changed; the arrogance of the engineers continues to be
absolutely breathtaking.
I spend a lot of my time dealing with engineers and other, quite highly qualified and highly intelligent in a perticular field types. When you warn them or advise them they're are all of course, much smarter than everyone else and know best. When things go exactly as you told them they would, it's never their fault.

PushedDover

985 posts

6 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
PushedDover said:
Why be rude to me ?
I'm sorry, that was unfair of me. I don't wish to be rude, it's just very frustrating when these threads get derailed by people who are incapable of having a proper conversation and are adament that they're opinion is right regardless of all other objective evidence to the contrary and then latch on to a post by some person who claims to be something that on all liklihood they're not.
Ah gotcha. So you are more right than me on this. Understood.
And the JLR engineer. You’re more right than him too.




AngryPartsBloke

964 posts

104 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
PushedDover said:
Ah gotcha. So you are more right than me on this. Understood.
And the JLR engineer. You’re more right than him too.
Your reply says more about you than me.



user0000001

14 posts

144 months

Friday 27th March
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
then latch on to a post by some person who claims to be something that on all liklihood they're not.
Like I keep saying, what proof would you like?
My cdsid? My pay grade? (D), my office address (decX when at Gaydon, Gblock at CB, BIWmezz at Nitra), photos of me sleeping at Nitra factory when I was flown over there for the latest disaster mitigation? The names and inside leg measurements of the LL3+4 seniors I presented my issues to in the process chain reviews? I've got my letter from last year stating that I'm too business critical for VR due to the distressed nature of the L663 programme?

Just let me know what you want?