RE: Mk4 Ford Focus RS 'highly unlikely'
Discussion
MikeM6 said:
irocfan said:
apparently it's the way they calculate the emissions - IIRC a lighter car gets disproportionately hammered (which is perverse!)
I also imagine that an SUV will sell loads more than a hot hatch, especially in core markets like USA and China. Allocate more emissions budget to those that sell and it makes more senseI best start saving up for my next purchase then, an X5 M Competition, so I can join the gas-guzzzling, can't park it anywhere, 2 ton possee......
irocfan said:
apparently it's the way they calculate the emissions - IIRC a lighter car gets disproportionately hammered (which is perverse!)
Yes, its bizarre from a climate perspective, lf you have a heavier car fleet the average you need to meet goes up. Companies like fiat that make light and simple cars gets in trouble because of this, If i remember correctly their fleet average target is even below the 95g CO2 (93g or something like that). The germans where big driver behind those regulations.However not everyone seem to have understood how big implications the CO2 fleet average punishment taxes will have on "fun cars", since every car over 95g will add significant costs to the company. And also, not to forget that the latest Euro 6 homologation process is pretty massive and very costly, which isnt exactly helping to make small "special" series.
My wife's a big Ford fan and always wanted an FRS so we'd been considering buying a new next gen car when it's launched. Maybe I'll talk her into us getting a second (definitely not new!) Porsche and some little electric run around instead then :-/
David87 said:
Pretty sure with every generation of Focus RS has been denied by Ford at one point or another, but this does seem a bit more likely this time around, what with everything else going on. A shame as the Mk4 Focus is really good.
That did occur to me too. I suppose things are a little different this time but they've certainly cried wolf in the past.m444ttb said:
My wife's a big Ford fan and always wanted an FRS so we'd been considering buying a new next gen car when it's launched. Maybe I'll talk her into us getting a second (definitely not new!) Porsche and some little electric run around instead then :-/
We're only 1 year into the Mk4 Focus, so probably 6 years left for this shape to run. I wouldn't be surprised that there's a re-evaluation come facelift time - and anyway the last RS only arrived after the Mk3.5 was launched.David87 said:
Pretty sure with every generation of Focus RS has been denied by Ford at one point or another, but this does seem a bit more likely this time around, what with everything else going on. A shame as the Mk4 Focus is really good.
That did occur to me too. I suppose things are a little different this time but they've certainly cried wolf in the past.Apparently according to a ford salesman friend
Pre Covid focus sales have dramatically fallen in the U.K. as people are replacing them with kuga
So even if there was a new rs by the time it came about
It would be electric, but my thinking is and has been for some time now is that hatchbacks are basically finished
And on there last gasp, the focus will be canned along with the rest of them
Pre Covid focus sales have dramatically fallen in the U.K. as people are replacing them with kuga
So even if there was a new rs by the time it came about
It would be electric, but my thinking is and has been for some time now is that hatchbacks are basically finished
And on there last gasp, the focus will be canned along with the rest of them
Reciprocating mass said:
Apparently according to a ford salesman friend
Pre Covid focus sales have dramatically fallen in the U.K. as people are replacing them with kuga
So even if there was a new rs by the time it came about
It would be electric, but my thinking is and has been for some time now is that hatchbacks are basically finished
And on there last gasp, the focus will be canned along with the rest of them
The Focus is a global product for Ford and sells well in many countries, cant think its going anywhere, ditto the Golf and all the others.Pre Covid focus sales have dramatically fallen in the U.K. as people are replacing them with kuga
So even if there was a new rs by the time it came about
It would be electric, but my thinking is and has been for some time now is that hatchbacks are basically finished
And on there last gasp, the focus will be canned along with the rest of them
Just wont be an RS model by the sound of it.
J4CKO said:
The Focus is a global product for Ford and sells well in many countries, cant think its going anywhere, ditto the Golf and all the others.
Just wont be an RS model by the sound of it.
Not any more; you can’t buy the Focus in North America nowadays. Think it stopped with the end of the Mk3.Just wont be an RS model by the sound of it.
J4CKO said:
The Focus is a global product for Ford and sells well in many countries, cant think its going anywhere, ditto the Golf and all the others.
Just wont be an RS model by the sound of it.
Apart from they don't sell the Focus in North America - for the RS to happen it had to be a "Global" car to sell enough in numbers to make it profitable, sure they could have shipped the MK4 RS there as a one off performance model but that was unlikely as well to be honest.Just wont be an RS model by the sound of it.
ColdFusionX said:
Seems a shame considering the new Focus is actually quite nice and I would see it as being able to hold it's own against the german offerings in a way previous Foci couldn't, maybe they havnt developed the 4WD shell yet so are pulling the plug early.
Agree it is very nice and given some Rs styling it would of looked some machine, I would of had my name down for the final , final edition to add to the collection It’s worth noting a few things:
During the lead up to the last Focus RS launch autocar and their affiliates, assured us that there would be no all wheel drive focus coming. I remember I had a source at ford at the time, and I’d comment on the weakness in their stories about no all wheel drive, to no avail.
If this new RS would get electric drive, we are looking at a significant weight gain, over an already very portly RS; this would not work out well for the handling. An electric RS does not make sense on any level in what is basically an economy hatch built using not enough ultra lightweight steel. Could Porsche do this, yes, and indeed Porsche likely will in the next 5 years or so; using a mostly aluminum structure.
The best new Audi/VW awd’s will use the next gen torque apportioning Haldex systems, which work rather similarly to what Ford use in their current gen Focus RS. In addition, VW use much lighter materials than what Ford are willing or able to use on the Focus- or any other car they make.
Any new RS going forward, using electric drive or not, is just about a non starter; it is a car that is too heavy and born of an attitude and/or cost cutting that does not allow for proper lightweight design.
Ford as a car maker, is on its very last legs. The bottom line is that Ford really never kept up with the Germans in the designs of their car structures. They chose to continue to use below average quality materials, both inside and out. Now after years of trying to cut costs, they are way behind.
Obviously you won’t be reading words like these on auto sites. Thanks j
During the lead up to the last Focus RS launch autocar and their affiliates, assured us that there would be no all wheel drive focus coming. I remember I had a source at ford at the time, and I’d comment on the weakness in their stories about no all wheel drive, to no avail.
If this new RS would get electric drive, we are looking at a significant weight gain, over an already very portly RS; this would not work out well for the handling. An electric RS does not make sense on any level in what is basically an economy hatch built using not enough ultra lightweight steel. Could Porsche do this, yes, and indeed Porsche likely will in the next 5 years or so; using a mostly aluminum structure.
The best new Audi/VW awd’s will use the next gen torque apportioning Haldex systems, which work rather similarly to what Ford use in their current gen Focus RS. In addition, VW use much lighter materials than what Ford are willing or able to use on the Focus- or any other car they make.
Any new RS going forward, using electric drive or not, is just about a non starter; it is a car that is too heavy and born of an attitude and/or cost cutting that does not allow for proper lightweight design.
Ford as a car maker, is on its very last legs. The bottom line is that Ford really never kept up with the Germans in the designs of their car structures. They chose to continue to use below average quality materials, both inside and out. Now after years of trying to cut costs, they are way behind.
Obviously you won’t be reading words like these on auto sites. Thanks j
Edited by jl4069 on Friday 17th April 21:12
This is a crying shame. The new Focus RS was likely to be my preferred option for a new car next, pitted against some 2nd hand options such as an M3 or Giulia QV. Looks like Ford will miss out on the opportunity to compete for cash..
Also agree with some totter posters - surely an RS range topper helps to make the Focus (and Ford) more attractive as a whole?
Also agree with some totter posters - surely an RS range topper helps to make the Focus (and Ford) more attractive as a whole?
David87 said:
Pretty sure with every generation of Focus RS has been denied by Ford at one point or another, but this does seem a bit more likely this time around, what with everything else going on. A shame as the Mk4 Focus is really good.
We have gone through the same cycle for every Focus RS. It always starts off with there won't be one. Then the rumours will be it'll be the best thing ever and it'll be a Cosworth.
It turns out to fall far short of the rumours, but it always happens.
I remember watching a American youtuber state Ford USA would be streamlining to just the the Pickup and Mustang (big sellers).
Checking the Ford US site today, shows no hatch backs just an array of SUVs, picksup, Mustang and the Fusion (Mondeo like).
Does Ford US lead the world market for the brand?
The new regulations seem crazy with the allowance for weight to up the emissions limit.
Toyota with their vast hybrid range are okay to continue with Aygos but the C1 and Pug 10x are doomed in petrol form, so small cars that don't produce too many nasty emissions are being canned or going full (too expensive) electric.
Checking the Ford US site today, shows no hatch backs just an array of SUVs, picksup, Mustang and the Fusion (Mondeo like).
Does Ford US lead the world market for the brand?
The new regulations seem crazy with the allowance for weight to up the emissions limit.
Toyota with their vast hybrid range are okay to continue with Aygos but the C1 and Pug 10x are doomed in petrol form, so small cars that don't produce too many nasty emissions are being canned or going full (too expensive) electric.
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