Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all (Vol. 2).
Discussion
catfood12 said:
Crikey, that's just nuts. What's that going to do to profit and volume?!? I guess it will just limit the ICE availability, if anything it looks like new ICE will become scarce. Surely the groups & manufacturers can't wear years of this, especially as I think they're all still geared up for majority ICE production.... Or is the global impact lesser, and the UK has just imposed another sanction on itself?!
UK and EU certainly down this route. Margins are lower on EV too, for both manufacturer and dealers. Used ICE product will continue to command strong pricing as fleets increase EV numbers due to tax advantages.I'm not against EV, most are great driving cars, but we're not yet ready for mass adoption.
papa3 said:
catfood12 said:
Crikey, that's just nuts. What's that going to do to profit and volume?!? I guess it will just limit the ICE availability, if anything it looks like new ICE will become scarce. Surely the groups & manufacturers can't wear years of this, especially as I think they're all still geared up for majority ICE production.... Or is the global impact lesser, and the UK has just imposed another sanction on itself?!
UK and EU certainly down this route. Margins are lower on EV too, for both manufacturer and dealers. Used ICE product will continue to command strong pricing as fleets increase EV numbers due to tax advantages.I'm not against EV, most are great driving cars, but we're not yet ready for mass adoption.
HTP99 said:
papa3 said:
catfood12 said:
Crikey, that's just nuts. What's that going to do to profit and volume?!? I guess it will just limit the ICE availability, if anything it looks like new ICE will become scarce. Surely the groups & manufacturers can't wear years of this, especially as I think they're all still geared up for majority ICE production.... Or is the global impact lesser, and the UK has just imposed another sanction on itself?!
UK and EU certainly down this route. Margins are lower on EV too, for both manufacturer and dealers. Used ICE product will continue to command strong pricing as fleets increase EV numbers due to tax advantages.I'm not against EV, most are great driving cars, but we're not yet ready for mass adoption.
MB aren't too bad at the moment, I think we're looking at a current mix of 18-19% of EV with the target being 22% for this year from memory. I can certainly see registration blocks towards the back end of the year if we're not at the right model mix.
Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
Fast Bug said:
MB aren't too bad at the moment, I think we're looking at a current mix of 18-19% of EV with the target being 22% for this year from memory. I can certainly see registration blocks towards the back end of the year if we're not at the right model mix.
Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
If incentives were done away with then prices would drop. You can see how much EVs could be when you look at what's available on Motability, and that includes maint, insurance and 20K/yr.Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
Or make salary sacrifice available to everyone on PAYE - although gross SS amounts often look like a massive rip-off.
Sheepshanks said:
Fast Bug said:
MB aren't too bad at the moment, I think we're looking at a current mix of 18-19% of EV with the target being 22% for this year from memory. I can certainly see registration blocks towards the back end of the year if we're not at the right model mix.
Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
If incentives were done away with then prices would drop. You can see how much EVs could be when you look at what's available on Motability, and that includes maint, insurance and 20K/yr.Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
Or make salary sacrifice available to everyone on PAYE - although gross SS amounts often look like a massive rip-off.
Why have an E Class and pay £500 pcm company car tax when you can can go electric and pay £100 pcm? For that kind of saving you'll put up with some of the downsides of running an EV
Sheepshanks said:
If incentives were done away with then prices would drop. You can see how much EVs could be when you look at what's available on Motability, and that includes maint, insurance and 20K/yr.
Or make salary sacrifice available to everyone on PAYE - although gross SS amounts often look like a massive rip-off.
This. I can't understand why the govt are trying to push mass EV adoption by giving big tax subsidies to company car drivers who are probably wealthier than average. Or make salary sacrifice available to everyone on PAYE - although gross SS amounts often look like a massive rip-off.
I'm a PAYE higher rate tax payer. No company car though. At present I avoid my higher rate tax by increased pension contributions. The household runs 2 petrol cars bought new. At present the plan is to run both cars for the next 5 to 10 years.
With current high prices and depreciation for EVs I don't think I would buy a new one even with salary sacrifice but I would look at the numbers.
Zippee said:
Surely all it's going to do is force up the price of used ICE cars?
That appears to have already happened with new ICE stuff, no discounts at all and no firm availability dates. I need to replace a high miler 21 plate diesel T-Roc, this is my wife's car and she's an account manager who regularly does 200-300 mile days out at clients. The T-Roc does 55+ MPG. EV won't fit, petrol versions are lower on consumption and not as well suited (in my opinion only) as the torquey diesels.
They no longer make a diesel model T-Roc though. Wanted a new shape X2 diesel, but the diesel engine model release date hasn't been announced. Looking to buy a new X1 2.0 diesel. No discounts available! They start to get dear with a few options! Who has never got a discount on a new cooking BMW ?! Sucking in through teeth trying to get availability.
Is the whole industry like this !!?
catfood12 said:
That appears to have already happened with new ICE stuff, no discounts at all and no firm availability dates.
I need to replace a high miler 21 plate diesel T-Roc, this is my wife's car and she's an account manager who regularly does 200-300 mile days out at clients. The T-Roc does 55+ MPG. EV won't fit, petrol versions are lower on consumption and not as well suited (in my opinion only) as the torquey diesels.
The 1.5TSi wouldn't e far away from that, esp on the motorway in eco mode (I can get 55 from wife's Karoq). Around town it's 38, exactly same as her diesel Tiguan was. 150PS turbo petrol has decent low down torque.I need to replace a high miler 21 plate diesel T-Roc, this is my wife's car and she's an account manager who regularly does 200-300 mile days out at clients. The T-Roc does 55+ MPG. EV won't fit, petrol versions are lower on consumption and not as well suited (in my opinion only) as the torquey diesels.
I was OK with the deisel Tiguan but the petrol is amazingly quiet.
Just going to quote myself from another thread, because I think the inevitable consequences haven't been aired yet:
Newc said:
If they stick to the increasing ratio of EV to ICE, and infrastructure isn't resolved somehow (esp people with no way to charge at home), it's going to be chaos when people catch on
You wander in to order an ICE in September, and are told no more quota till next year, have an EV. You don't want/can't use an EV so you either order now for next year, or if they won't open the order books till 1 Jan you come back on on New Year's Day and get your order in.
But so does everyone else who got knocked back, so now the whole of the (steadily reducing) ICE allocation for the year gets sold on 1st Jan. Rinse and repeat.
All the remaining ICE quota is going to be ordered up front in 2025 for delivery through to 2035. People will be ordering on spec just to lock in a build slot. One litre shopping trollies are going to be fetching overs.
You wander in to order an ICE in September, and are told no more quota till next year, have an EV. You don't want/can't use an EV so you either order now for next year, or if they won't open the order books till 1 Jan you come back on on New Year's Day and get your order in.
But so does everyone else who got knocked back, so now the whole of the (steadily reducing) ICE allocation for the year gets sold on 1st Jan. Rinse and repeat.
All the remaining ICE quota is going to be ordered up front in 2025 for delivery through to 2035. People will be ordering on spec just to lock in a build slot. One litre shopping trollies are going to be fetching overs.
trumpton7291 said:
Absolutely. ZEV mandate is absolute lunacy hence expect it's removal as soon as it actually starts to affect people...
Things is unless other governments around the world pull the EV mandate then it won't make a jot of difference. Manufacturers are full steam ahead with EV for numerous markets. And if all of the governments around the world pulled the mandate it'll be like stopping an oil tanker and will take a good few years before new ICE product lands in the showrooms.Timely in the Telegraph just now:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...
Sales of battery-powered cars dropped by 11.3pc as demand in Germany, Europe’s largest economy, plunged by 28.9pc, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA). Only 13pc of new registrations were electric, down from 13.9pc in March last year and down from 14.6pc for all of 2023.
Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Tesla have all reported falling electric vehicle sales in the first three months of the year. It came as new vehicle registrations overall fell by 5.3pc across the European Union to 1m last month. Hybrid cars accounted for 29pc of the market in March, up from 24.4pc in the same month a year ago.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...
Sales of battery-powered cars dropped by 11.3pc as demand in Germany, Europe’s largest economy, plunged by 28.9pc, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA). Only 13pc of new registrations were electric, down from 13.9pc in March last year and down from 14.6pc for all of 2023.
Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz and Tesla have all reported falling electric vehicle sales in the first three months of the year. It came as new vehicle registrations overall fell by 5.3pc across the European Union to 1m last month. Hybrid cars accounted for 29pc of the market in March, up from 24.4pc in the same month a year ago.
catfood12 said:
That appears to have already happened with new ICE stuff, no discounts at all and no firm availability dates.
I need to replace a high miler 21 plate diesel T-Roc, this is my wife's car and she's an account manager who regularly does 200-300 mile days out at clients. The T-Roc does 55+ MPG. EV won't fit, petrol versions are lower on consumption and not as well suited (in my opinion only) as the torquey diesels.
They no longer make a diesel model T-Roc though. Wanted a new shape X2 diesel, but the diesel engine model release date hasn't been announced. Looking to buy a new X1 2.0 diesel. No discounts available! They start to get dear with a few options! Who has never got a discount on a new cooking BMW ?! Sucking in through teeth trying to get availability.
Is the whole industry like this !!?
Don't get a diesel X1I need to replace a high miler 21 plate diesel T-Roc, this is my wife's car and she's an account manager who regularly does 200-300 mile days out at clients. The T-Roc does 55+ MPG. EV won't fit, petrol versions are lower on consumption and not as well suited (in my opinion only) as the torquey diesels.
They no longer make a diesel model T-Roc though. Wanted a new shape X2 diesel, but the diesel engine model release date hasn't been announced. Looking to buy a new X1 2.0 diesel. No discounts available! They start to get dear with a few options! Who has never got a discount on a new cooking BMW ?! Sucking in through teeth trying to get availability.
Is the whole industry like this !!?
Got one as a company car. Absolutely awful
See thread on BMW sub forum.Not alone in my views
I don't know about actual availability when you walk into a dealership, but Volkswagen's online configurator shows the T Roc as still being available with a diesel engine.
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/configurator.html/...
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/configurator.html/...
Fast Bug said:
MB aren't too bad at the moment, I think we're looking at a current mix of 18-19% of EV with the target being 22% for this year from memory. I can certainly see registration blocks towards the back end of the year if we're not at the right model mix.
Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
MB service and knowledge is at an all time low, it’s gaining wider exposure how they just can’t look after the cars. I was quoted a 5 week wait for a 2 hour inspection on a brand new car so I threatened to reject it and nobody cared. In the end I did a social media post and was offered a slot same day while I wait. I said could you fix it (eqc coolant cap and bleed) instead of inspecting the cap and they are going to try.Retail EV sales are nowhere near the right level, it's fleet that's pushing the model mix as we're at around 70% EV at the moment. If the government remove the incentives for company car users it's going to be nigh on impossible to hit the right model mix.
If I was MB I’d start pulling in mechanics from anywhere to cope.
DSLiverpool said:
.
If I was MB I’d start pulling in mechanics from anywhere to cope.
Isn’t a huge problem at the moment is that there is nowhere to pull mechanics from?If I was MB I’d start pulling in mechanics from anywhere to cope.
There is a shortage with many garages and dealerships crying out for decent knowledgeable staff but it seems that they’re still unwilling to pay decent money to attract new blood into the industry.
valiant said:
DSLiverpool said:
.
If I was MB I’d start pulling in mechanics from anywhere to cope.
Isn’t a huge problem at the moment is that there is nowhere to pull mechanics from?If I was MB I’d start pulling in mechanics from anywhere to cope.
There is a shortage with many garages and dealerships crying out for decent knowledgeable staff but it seems that they’re still unwilling to pay decent money to attract new blood into the industry.
The problem lies in the perceived value by the customer. We see posts on here regularly complaining about the cost of dealership servicing but in the same breath criticising the industry for poor staff retention and pay rates.
Our workshop rate has been unchanged since 2020 as we resist passing a certain £/h level. Since 2016 it has only risen 7% BUT remains nearly double the rate charged by the small, non franchised businesses local to us. This difference is cited on forums endlessly but is never considered in light of the massive costs associated with the franchised network.
When I joined the industry in 1997 the aftersales business was expected to absorb 110% of the business overhead. Today that figure averages at 55%. Today a great franchised operator will return 3% of turnover, most manage only 1%.
Despite this we train apprentices to internationally recognised standards, offer (now) normal working hours and provide premises of the highest standards. Our tools and equipment are audited to ensure we comply with the brand standards AND our CSI is monitored in near real time with failures often carrying significant financial penalties.
There are good and bad in any industry and the motor trade has itself to blame for much of the poor reputation it suffers, but, it has progressed as an industry, one which changes constantly, and provides a complex range of services which are cash and investment intensive for low returns.
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