RE: McLaren seeks extra funding to mitigate losses
Discussion
A quick back of the envelope calculation makes me think that the 3 main owners of McLaren have a net worth of around $20bn (Mumtalakat owns 56.4%, Ojjeh 14.32% and Latifi 9.84%). This is a restructuring exercise, maybe a wake up call - but far far from the end.
There seem to have been 20 new models released since coming back with the 12c and the differences in their Sports Series seems limited - perhaps focusing on fewer models may help.
There seem to have been 20 new models released since coming back with the 12c and the differences in their Sports Series seems limited - perhaps focusing on fewer models may help.
I do not give the slightest of two s
ts that McL are a British company. That is just weak, jingoistic pish.
I do think that what they have achieved from effectively a standing start in a few short years is utterly amazing.
Not without some problems, which at this price level is difficult for owners to forgive, but look at the Porsche GT3 engine fiasco to see how established manufacturers can also drop the ball.
It would really be disappointing if they cannot refinance and ride out this storm.
ts that McL are a British company. That is just weak, jingoistic pish.I do think that what they have achieved from effectively a standing start in a few short years is utterly amazing.
Not without some problems, which at this price level is difficult for owners to forgive, but look at the Porsche GT3 engine fiasco to see how established manufacturers can also drop the ball.
It would really be disappointing if they cannot refinance and ride out this storm.
There are very few in the automotive industry who would shed a tear were they to disappear. An utterly hateful company to do business with, and they're absolutely despised by their suppliers. They treat their employees with total disdain and the management team have an arrogance that is far from deserved. A company completely lacking in any sort of character, and you could probably level the same at the products.
had ham said:
There are very few in the automotive industry who would shed a tear were they to disappear. An utterly hateful company to do business with, and they're absolutely despised by their suppliers. They treat their employees with total disdain and the management team have an arrogance that is far from deserved. A company completely lacking in any sort of character, and you could probably level the same at the products.
What a wonderful fact filled statement.This is the kind of post I am talking about...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever....like the guys whom have never sat in a McLaren but post they are crap to drive.
Almost like you sat down and thought ' i am going to join in here'.
I am not going to dispute any of of your sweeping 'facts' (as even Stevie Wonder could see they are ludicrous) with the exception of one.
After i had made about 5 posts in this thread, i recieved a PM from a senior member in the McLaren development team right out of the blue.
It was sent from a mclaren.com email and i googled the individual to verify whom they were.
The individual has been there for a long time, said thanks for speaking positively about McLaren on the forum as it is usually negative. He indicated he is very passionate about the firm, loves his workplace and loves being at the cutting edge.
We exchanged a few emails and he then said if there is anything i ever need regards McLaren, ping him an email straight away.
Ok, it is one individual, but it sure as hell doesn't seem to me he is an employee treated with 'disdain" or 'has an arrogance that is deserved'.
I personally thought it was really, really nice touch, and just backs up all my personal 1st class experience with Mclaren Glasgow, the warranty team and now a senior chap at Woking...so far each cog in the wheel has went that extra bit in order to be very helpful.
I know from Mac Glasgow that employees read pistonheads but are banned from getting sucked in and posting.
Maybe i am just lucky with my experiences though.
Always been looked after by both Ferrari and Porsche over the last 20 years...all have been helpful and no real issues.
Or maybe its because i have my own business and sometimes things do go wrong, and realise that if something does goes wrong you sort it out without a fuss rather than jumping on the tinternet and making a mountain out of a molehill.
Turn7 said:
Matty3 said:
Turn7 said:
Matty3 said:
Wierd UK attitude to British success that they should not to be successful?
Standard isnt it ? Love the underdog then hate the successfull version it becomes.I think we have become quite a vindictive and unpleasant version of ourselves lately.
One of the most uncomfortable things to ever introduce a British person in a work environment who has a skill or creative talent would be as an Artist..
"This is Dave our head engineer who is an Artist".
It's important to show to both Dave and those around you that your proffesional respect for him is reinforced by a personal one by adding "Well piss artist more like"
Simply walking away without adding it Dave may think you are being sarcastic or derogatory in a professional environment in Britain.
The McLaren moaning is how you show your love for the brand and anyone who has owned a TVR/Lotus/Jag/Morgan knows this is how the British male interacts in the wild.
They tell you how s
t something is about your car by using Jeremy Clarkson as a medium. You offer your openness by quoting from the Sunday Times article or Top Gear episode that they use to show your respect of their knowledge of the Oracle. It is not about the car itself.
For those wanting to take this to a higher level buy a new motorbike, preferably a Superbike and stop at a Pub on a popular route for Bikers.
BOR said:
Not without some problems, which at this price level is difficult for owners to forgive, but look at the Porsche GT3 engine fiasco to see how established manufacturers can also drop the ball.
In 2013 couple of initial run European gen 1 GT3s had engine fires the result of which all existing cars received revised replacement engines generous compensation and brand new unlimited use mileage Porsche loan cars for up to 8 months.Porsche subsequently extended the engine warranty to 10 years.
Question of is McLaren in trouble is put wrong way round. Real question is how could they not be in trouble. If they were not in trouble only explanation would be that owners are pumping in big money to keep them off trouble. Its virtually impossible for them not be in trouble at current situation. They have spend ton of money to build their current lineup and cannot have made enough extra to have rainy day reserves.
650spider said:
I expect this topic will turn into the usual McLaren thread ie; why i won't buy one, unreliable, same carbon tub, same engine, unreliable, rubbish engine noise, rubbish dealers blah blah blah and blah.
Some belters will even pitch up and state they are boring to drive.
Not sure what disappoints me the most about my McLaren; 0-60 in the 2s, 0-100 in the 5s, 0-124 in the 7s, fantastic service from McLaren Glasgow, or that it has never broken down or caused me any problems?
Maybe it is the pure theatre doors?
I cannot put my finger on it.
Hopefully some non owners can put me right.
Some belters will even pitch up and state they are boring to drive.
Not sure what disappoints me the most about my McLaren; 0-60 in the 2s, 0-100 in the 5s, 0-124 in the 7s, fantastic service from McLaren Glasgow, or that it has never broken down or caused me any problems?
Maybe it is the pure theatre doors?
I cannot put my finger on it.
Hopefully some non owners can put me right.
I’m sure some non owners will 650spider said:
had ham said:
An utterly hateful company to do business with, and they're absolutely despised by their suppliers. They treat their employees with total disdain and the management team have an arrogance that is far from deserved.
This is the kind of post I am talking about...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever...McLaren: 2.6
JLR: 3.6
Aston Martin: 3.3
Ford: 3.9
Bentley: 4.0
Rolls Royce: 3.6
Mini plant: 3.7
Vauxhall: 2.9
And if I recall correctly, that 2.6 is a vast improvement from a year or two ago.
Oilchange said:
The manufacturer has apparently had a request for a £150m government loan turned down.
Was the Governments reply ‘hahahahahahahaha, f**k off.
I mean, F1 and the money tap suddenly dries so turn on the taxpayer one?
I believe the government watched 2 minutes (all that's needed really) of Jayemms video to determine that verdict.Was the Governments reply ‘hahahahahahahaha, f**k off.
I mean, F1 and the money tap suddenly dries so turn on the taxpayer one?
JxJ Jr. said:
650spider said:
had ham said:
An utterly hateful company to do business with, and they're absolutely despised by their suppliers. They treat their employees with total disdain and the management team have an arrogance that is far from deserved.
This is the kind of post I am talking about...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever...McLaren: 2.6
JLR: 3.6
Aston Martin: 3.3
Ford: 3.9
Bentley: 4.0
Rolls Royce: 3.6
Mini plant: 3.7
Vauxhall: 2.9
And if I recall correctly, that 2.6 is a vast improvement from a year or two ago.
If i was very happy in an employed job it wouldn't even be a consideration to go onto a platform like glass doors and review my job....why would i?
Is it disgruntled employees that are most likely to post giving an inaccurate balance of opinions?
Its a bit like when a poster has an issue with their McLaren...they post it and people read into it as another problematic car from a problematic brand.
If the car is great and reliable it is a non story so people do not post about that...they just get on with enjoying it.
Again, an inaccurate balance of opinions.
Not a McLaren thing...it is the same for most reviews of any subject.
I almost did not buy one as i was being sucked into thread after thread about them being crap; i am very glad i stuck to deciding for myself rather than my decision being swayed by others.
I certainly wouldn't choose not to work for a company based on reviews like glass doors rather than actually suck it and see; just like choosing a car etc etc.
650spider said:
What a wonderful fact filled statement.
This is the kind of post I am talking about...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever....like the guys whom have never sat in a McLaren but post they are crap to drive.
Almost like you sat down and thought ' i am going to join in here'.
I am not going to dispute any of of your sweeping 'facts' (as even Stevie Wonder could see they are ludicrous) with the exception of one.
After i had made about 5 posts in this thread, i recieved a PM from a senior member in the McLaren development team right out of the blue.
It was sent from a mclaren.com email and i googled the individual to verify whom they were.
The individual has been there for a long time, said thanks for speaking positively about McLaren on the forum as it is usually negative. He indicated he is very passionate about the firm, loves his workplace and loves being at the cutting edge.
We exchanged a few emails and he then said if there is anything i ever need regards McLaren, ping him an email straight away.
Ok, it is one individual, but it sure as hell doesn't seem to me he is an employee treated with 'disdain" or 'has an arrogance that is deserved'.
I personally thought it was really, really nice touch, and just backs up all my personal 1st class experience with Mclaren Glasgow, the warranty team and now a senior chap at Woking...so far each cog in the wheel has went that extra bit in order to be very helpful.
I know from Mac Glasgow that employees read pistonheads but are banned from getting sucked in and posting.
Maybe i am just lucky with my experiences though.
Always been looked after by both Ferrari and Porsche over the last 20 years...all have been helpful and no real issues.
Or maybe its because i have my own business and sometimes things do go wrong, and realise that if something does goes wrong you sort it out without a fuss rather than jumping on the tinternet and making a mountain out of a molehill.
I've been involved in the Auto industry for 33 years now, mostly at a senior level, and have had the misfortune to interact with Mclaren as an advisor and supplier on a number of occasions over the years, again mostly at Director level and up. I know many of their suppliers senior folk on a personal level, and I also know many people who have worked there, at all levels.This is the kind of post I am talking about...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever....like the guys whom have never sat in a McLaren but post they are crap to drive.
Almost like you sat down and thought ' i am going to join in here'.
I am not going to dispute any of of your sweeping 'facts' (as even Stevie Wonder could see they are ludicrous) with the exception of one.
After i had made about 5 posts in this thread, i recieved a PM from a senior member in the McLaren development team right out of the blue.
It was sent from a mclaren.com email and i googled the individual to verify whom they were.
The individual has been there for a long time, said thanks for speaking positively about McLaren on the forum as it is usually negative. He indicated he is very passionate about the firm, loves his workplace and loves being at the cutting edge.
We exchanged a few emails and he then said if there is anything i ever need regards McLaren, ping him an email straight away.
Ok, it is one individual, but it sure as hell doesn't seem to me he is an employee treated with 'disdain" or 'has an arrogance that is deserved'.
I personally thought it was really, really nice touch, and just backs up all my personal 1st class experience with Mclaren Glasgow, the warranty team and now a senior chap at Woking...so far each cog in the wheel has went that extra bit in order to be very helpful.
I know from Mac Glasgow that employees read pistonheads but are banned from getting sucked in and posting.
Maybe i am just lucky with my experiences though.
Always been looked after by both Ferrari and Porsche over the last 20 years...all have been helpful and no real issues.
Or maybe its because i have my own business and sometimes things do go wrong, and realise that if something does goes wrong you sort it out without a fuss rather than jumping on the tinternet and making a mountain out of a molehill.
So my statements were based on direct personal experience. I've also driven most of their models since the 12c onwards, fast and drove well, but didn't do anything for me at all.
Perhaps the next time you might stop and think before you make such sweeping assumptions? I suspect not though, fanbois are all pretty consistent in their inability to recognise anything negative with their chosen brand, vehicle, etc.
650spider said:
JxJ Jr. said:
Glassdoor reviews (stars out of 5).
McLaren: 2.6
JLR: 3.6
Aston Martin: 3.3
Ford: 3.9
Bentley: 4.0
Rolls Royce: 3.6
Mini plant: 3.7
Vauxhall: 2.9
And if I recall correctly, that 2.6 is a vast improvement from a year or two ago.
Here is the thing.McLaren: 2.6
JLR: 3.6
Aston Martin: 3.3
Ford: 3.9
Bentley: 4.0
Rolls Royce: 3.6
Mini plant: 3.7
Vauxhall: 2.9
And if I recall correctly, that 2.6 is a vast improvement from a year or two ago.
If i was very happy in an employed job it wouldn't even be a consideration to go onto a platform like glass doors and review my job....why would i?
Is it disgruntled employees that are most likely to post giving an inaccurate balance of opinions?
650spider said:
JxJ Jr. said:
650spider said:
had ham said:
An utterly hateful company to do business with, and they're absolutely despised by their suppliers. They treat their employees with total disdain and the management team have an arrogance that is far from deserved.
This is the kind of post I am talking about...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever...McLaren: 2.6
JLR: 3.6
Aston Martin: 3.3
Ford: 3.9
Bentley: 4.0
Rolls Royce: 3.6
Mini plant: 3.7
Vauxhall: 2.9
And if I recall correctly, that 2.6 is a vast improvement from a year or two ago.
If i was very happy in an employed job it wouldn't even be a consideration to go onto a platform like glass doors and review my job....why would i?
Is it disgruntled employees that are most likely to post giving an inaccurate balance of opinions?
Again, an inaccurate balance of opinions.
Not a McLaren thing...it is the same for most reviews of any subject.
So why are some companies like Ford and Bentley being rated 3.9 and 4.0 out of 5? I guess their disgruntled employees are just not as unhappy and disgruntled as McLaren's. Some people have excuses for everything.
had ham said:
I've been involved in the Auto industry for 33 years now, mostly at a senior level, and have had the misfortune to interact with Mclaren as an advisor and
Blah blah
Perhaps the next time you might stop and think before you make such sweeping assumptions? I suspect not though, fanbois are all pretty consistent in their inability to recognise anything negative with their chosen brand, vehicle, etc.
What sweeping assumptions?Blah blah
Perhaps the next time you might stop and think before you make such sweeping assumptions? I suspect not though, fanbois are all pretty consistent in their inability to recognise anything negative with their chosen brand, vehicle, etc.
All i have spoke about has been my personal experience with McLaren and a very reasonable response to a 'glass floor' post.
You know what, even if you reply it is a post i won't be interested in engaging with.
The credibility you were trying to build up for yourself was lost when you start the name calling.
If you cannot engage with dignity on an easy going forum, i am not sure how you would of performed at the senior management level you talk about; maybe that created the issues you speak of.
650spider said:
What sweeping assumptions?
How about this one?650spider said:
...you have stated many far reaching 'facts' but not one backed up with any evidence or personal experience whatsoever....
The rest of your post doesn't warrant the effort to respond. Such a poor attempt, I'm afraid.650spider said:
Here is the thing.
If i was very happy in an employed job it wouldn't even be a consideration to go onto a platform like glass doors and review my job....why would i?
Is it disgruntled employees that are most likely to post giving an inaccurate balance of opinions?
Its a bit like when a poster has an issue with their McLaren...they post it and people read into it as another problematic car from a problematic brand.
If the car is great and reliable it is a non story so people do not post about that...they just get on with enjoying it.
Again, an inaccurate balance of opinions.
Not a McLaren thing...it is the same for most reviews of any subject.
You could say that about the other workplaces listed. If we were to consider McLaren as achieving a lot in recent years that has to come at some cost - a hectic workplace and getting crunched to achieve targets - and that pace has to be tempered with the mistakes which can slip in when a company is like that. The evidence of that all being out of kilter is right there! Poor Glassdoor rating, youtubers pumping out videos about the company and its product...If i was very happy in an employed job it wouldn't even be a consideration to go onto a platform like glass doors and review my job....why would i?
Is it disgruntled employees that are most likely to post giving an inaccurate balance of opinions?
Its a bit like when a poster has an issue with their McLaren...they post it and people read into it as another problematic car from a problematic brand.
If the car is great and reliable it is a non story so people do not post about that...they just get on with enjoying it.
Again, an inaccurate balance of opinions.
Not a McLaren thing...it is the same for most reviews of any subject.
People also don't yet have the emotional investment in McLaren to produce a heap of fanbois, and nor are they profitable enough to do the sorts of PR things which drive fanbois onwards in their battle to defend the brand. Porsche have something like the highest margin on their product and the investment of some free engines and loaning people cars while they repaired ones which caught fire would have been a no-brainer. Similarly with Tesla endlessly replacing all sorts of components in their cars multiple times seems to not dent peoples enthusiasm about that brand.
Edited by rodericb on Saturday 16th May 15:37
rodericb said:
You could say that about the other workplaces listed. If we were to consider McLaren as achieving a lot in recent years that has to come at some cost - a hectic workplace and getting crunched to achieve targets - and that pace has to be tempered with the mistakes which can slip in when a company is like that. The evidence of that all being out of kilter is right there! Poor Glassdoor rating, youtubers pumping out videos about the company and its product...
People also don't yet have the emotional investment in McLaren to produce a heap of fanbois, and nor are they profitable enough to do the sorts of PR things which drive fanbois onwards in their battle to defend the brand. Porsche have something like the highest margin on their product and the investment of some free engines and loaning people cars while they repaired ones which caught fire would have been a no-brainer. Similarly with Tesla endlessly replacing all sorts of components in their cars multiple times seems to not dent peoples enthusiasm about that brand.
Good post with all very relevant points.People also don't yet have the emotional investment in McLaren to produce a heap of fanbois, and nor are they profitable enough to do the sorts of PR things which drive fanbois onwards in their battle to defend the brand. Porsche have something like the highest margin on their product and the investment of some free engines and loaning people cars while they repaired ones which caught fire would have been a no-brainer. Similarly with Tesla endlessly replacing all sorts of components in their cars multiple times seems to not dent peoples enthusiasm about that brand.
Edited by rodericb on Saturday 16th May 15:37
For someone to say that it is a hateful firm that few would shed a tear if it was gone, is a total disrespect for the over 4000 UK employees and the ripple effect on the 000's of others involved that would lose their employment.
I am sure it is demanding on the employees and suppliers etc, but as you say for what they have achieved in such a small amount of time, with the costs involved with the few amount of units produced it must be tough going.
Its a real pity so many would like to see McLaren fail.
I'm guessing most people, me included, would like to see them succeed, as competition in any marketplace is healthy, especially in the auto industry.
I think it is how they go about making a success that causes many issues.
There is and always will be a lot of love for the McLaren F1 from people who dislike the current range of cars and this is probably down to Gordon Murray's vision and input in the F1 which made it so special.
I think it is how they go about making a success that causes many issues.
There is and always will be a lot of love for the McLaren F1 from people who dislike the current range of cars and this is probably down to Gordon Murray's vision and input in the F1 which made it so special.
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