Why did people spec auto on performance cars?

[Olivera]

ITP said:

One of the main reasons I think it’s a bit boring sometimes is due to the very short braking distances. There is just no time to out brake anyone from behind. I suppose that’s why they brought in the KERS to allow at least some overtaking before you even get to a corner.
Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?

Traction control in F1 was banned over a decade ago. There's also lots of opportunity to outbrake other cars as there is no ABS.

[NewUsername]

xjay1337 said:

NewUsername said:

Soooo have you any numbers about who owns as an investment and who doesn't drive them? Is it mutually exclusive?

As for the warranty, if the cars are designed/optimised for certain parts then why should the manufacturer support issues related to not using those recommended parts? Nothing weird or restrictive about that at all.

If you cant afford one and don't drive one how do you know the effect ( or lack of ) that switching from the recommended lists of tyres/pads makes? Or is it just a hunch?

It's clearly listed in the T&C. Also many members on here have reported they have to change non "N spec" tyres or a non Porsche battery in order to continue with a warranty claim.

Bits about not modifying engine , suspension , gearbox are fine. Tyres and brakes are not fine on an enthusiast car.

In your opinion

No different to my diesel 3 series, if I run non BMW spec tyres and battery i'm fairly sure i'd struggle on a related warranty claim.


If you want to modify...ie move away from OEM spec then its normal that the warranty would be invalid. Its a total non issue

[xjay1337]

NewUsername said:

In your opinion

No different to my diesel 3 series, if I run non BMW spec tyres and battery i'm fairly sure i'd struggle on a related warranty claim.


If you want to modify...ie move away from OEM spec then its normal that the warranty would be invalid. Its a total non issue

really? with my M135i "BMW spec" tyres are Michelin Supersports.
You're telling me that because I run Michelin PS4 (which are better most of the time) and my engine blows up I should accept being forced into buying tyres that I don't want or need because of some stupid clause in a warranty, that I'm sure if challenged in court with suitable funds the clause would be deemed illegal.

That's complete bullst and you know it. As I said engine, gearbox , suspension etc no-one is arguing about that. You should NOT be tied into using "consumables" EG tyres and batteries from a particular manufacturer or brand for warranty.

[av185]

NewUsername said:

xjay1337 said:

rockin said:

xjay1337 said:

Exactly - so boring. All helps keep Porsche's value stupidly high. It's OK though, because if you ever bought one with warranty but decided to fit non N Rated tyres to it, or a better battery, your warranty is invalid. Oops.

Sideways and Cerb4.5lee make a couple of sensible observations and then you turn up.

Would you like some vinegar with that chip?

Oh ps off. People can have different opinions to you.

Also my qualms with Porsche are valid I think - too many "nice" ones are owned by people who view them as investments not driving machines which means people like you and I can't ever realistically look to own one (but that's fine I'll just work harder - but what that's not enough as you can't get a new RS model without being a long standing Porsche customer or a celebrity!).
.
But mainly, I think some terms of their warranty are ridiculous. for example forcing you to fit specific tyres, brake pads or batteries (on an Enthusiast car surely tyres and brake pads are very specific to individual drivers)

But that's just me

Soooo have you any numbers about who owns as an investment and who doesn't drive them? Is it mutually exclusive?

As for the warranty, if the cars are designed/optimised for certain parts then why should the manufacturer support issues related to not using those recommended parts? Nothing weird or restrictive about that at all.

If you cant afford one and don't drive one how do you know the effect ( or lack of ) that switching from the recommended lists of tyres/pads makes? Or is it just a hunch?

Plenty of PHers and Porsche owners use their cars as intended. Whilst clearly some don't this is broadly an internet myth fuelled by the usual 'yay yo I own a stupidly large bling watch only worn just for my cringeworthy self promotion video about myself really but also featuring a GT3 RS I know fk all about' insta crowd. :

Earlier this year I had a 991.2 GT2 RS as a daily...great commuter car but relatively uninvolving as a drivers car for road use largely down to too easily attainable warp speed and auto gearbox.

Regarding non oem parts different OPCs have different views on this really depends on your relationship with your dealer but many do take a hard line which is fair enough.

[anonymous-user]

xjay1337 said:

That's complete bullst and you know it. As I said engine, gearbox , suspension etc no-one is arguing about that. You should NOT be tied into using "consumables" EG tyres and batteries from a particular manufacturer or brand for warranty.

You appear to know very little about modern cars.

[DoubleD]

Olivera said:

ITP said:

One of the main reasons I think it’s a bit boring sometimes is due to the very short braking distances. There is just no time to out brake anyone from behind. I suppose that’s why they brought in the KERS to allow at least some overtaking before you even get to a corner.
Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?

Traction control in F1 was banned over a decade ago. There's also lots of opportunity to outbrake other cars as there is no ABS.

Do you mean DRS rather than KERS? That just helps them to move along side, but they still have to out brake the other car.

I think the sport was more fun to watch with manual gearboxes, but thats never going to happen now.

[xjay1337]

rockin said:

You appear to know very little about modern cars.

Really?

You basing that on me saying Porsche warranty terms are BS because they are the ONLY manufacturer to specify that their own "N" rated tyres must be used for warranty? No other manufacturer has such a term.

That indicates my level of knowledge. But oh I forgot, I need to be lynched for saying anything negative about Porsche!
Enjoy :-)

[av185]

xjay1337 said:

av185 said:

Whilst manual transmission on a fast car is clearly a challenge and step too far which many don't like, try changing gear with one hand and appropriate clutch use so as not to upset the cars balance and simultaneously managing steering and braking input when the car is on its limit. Not easy.

Therein lies the challenge but so satisfying to get right when you do.

Edited by av185 on Wednesday 1st July 11:10

Edited by av185 on Wednesday 1st July 11:12

It is however certainly not difficult. I'm in no way a driving god but even my fat and bald self can manage that!

Depending on the car (extent of electronic driving aids) and exact driving conditions the degree of difficulty will clearly vary hugely.

But one this is for sure. Driving a paddle shift gearbox car with all the driver aids activated on the limit will be alot easier than driving a manual with the driver aids switched off.

I always liked the opening scenes in the original film 'The Italian Job' with the manual Miura driving into the Alps. Contrast the skill required to drive that car relatively fast on crossply tyres compared to a contemporary supercar such as an auto Aventador which has more driving aids than anyone could imagine to flatter the driver in what is essentially anything but a drivers car.

[xjay1337]

av185 said:

Depending on the car (extent of electronic driving aids) and exact driving conditions the degree of difficulty will clearly vary hugely.

But one this is for sure. Driving a paddle shift gearbox car with all the driver aids activated on the limit will be alot easier than driving a manual with the driver aids switched off.

I always liked the opening scenes in the original film 'The Italian Job' with the manual Miura driving into the Alps. Contrast the skill required to drive that car relatively fast on crossply tyres compared to a contemporary supercar such as an auto Aventador which has more driving aids than anyone could imagine to flatter the driver in what is essentially anything but a drivers car.

I sort of agree, only when driven in such a way where the aids are being activated. (which is not usually on the road).

I've never driven on crossply tyres (too young for that ) - Would like to try if I had an opportunity.

I guess how it feels for some of you is how it feels for me with the eventuality that we're moving to EV - you dont want things to change, prefer the olden days etc. which is fair enough as I understand that.

[ITP]

Olivera said:

ITP said:

One of the main reasons I think it’s a bit boring sometimes is due to the very short braking distances. There is just no time to out brake anyone from behind. I suppose that’s why they brought in the KERS to allow at least some overtaking before you even get to a corner.
Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?

Traction control in F1 was banned over a decade ago. There's also lots of opportunity to outbrake other cars as there is no ABS.

I thought it had been banned. However, I don’t agree on the braking, unless someone is already alongside it’s virtually impossible to do as missing a braking point by a fraction of a second means the corner will be missed due to how late the cars brake now. Sure, it may be possible into a tight hairpin by ‘block passing’ but other than that not a lot of chance. Like I said, KERS was brought in just to allow any kind of overtaking I think due to difficulties created by the downforce and lack of longer braking zones.

[DoubleD]

ITP said:

Olivera said:

ITP said:

One of the main reasons I think it’s a bit boring sometimes is due to the very short braking distances. There is just no time to out brake anyone from behind. I suppose that’s why they brought in the KERS to allow at least some overtaking before you even get to a corner.
Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?

Traction control in F1 was banned over a decade ago. There's also lots of opportunity to outbrake other cars as there is no ABS.

I thought it had been banned. However, I don’t agree on the braking, unless someone is already alongside it’s virtually impossible to do as missing a braking point by a fraction of a second means the corner will be missed due to how late the cars brake now. Sure, it may be possible into a tight hairpin by ‘block passing’ but other than that not a lot of chance. Like I said, KERS was brought in just to allow any kind of overtaking I think due to difficulties created by the downforce and lack of longer braking zones.

I think you mean DRS?

[otolith]

DRS and KERS both work to create performance disparities between cars at different times, in order to create overtaking opportunities.

[DoubleD]

otolith said:

DRS and KERS both work to create performance disparities between cars at different times, in order to create overtaking opportunities.

Yes I know. But he was talking about drag and thats where DRS comes in, also KERS allowed both drivers to use it at the same time, which often used to cancel it out.

Edited by DoubleD on Wednesday 1st July 13:05

[ITP]

DoubleD said:

ITP said:

Olivera said:

ITP said:

One of the main reasons I think it’s a bit boring sometimes is due to the very short braking distances. There is just no time to out brake anyone from behind. I suppose that’s why they brought in the KERS to allow at least some overtaking before you even get to a corner.
Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?

Traction control in F1 was banned over a decade ago. There's also lots of opportunity to outbrake other cars as there is no ABS.

I thought it had been banned. However, I don’t agree on the braking, unless someone is already alongside it’s virtually impossible to do as missing a braking point by a fraction of a second means the corner will be missed due to how late the cars brake now. Sure, it may be possible into a tight hairpin by ‘block passing’ but other than that not a lot of chance. Like I said, KERS was brought in just to allow any kind of overtaking I think due to difficulties created by the downforce and lack of longer braking zones.

I think you mean DRS?

Maybe, all these acronyms, it’s all a bit OTT..

The one I mean is the one that allows a boost of power when within 1 second in the prescribed zone just to allow overtaking. Like I said, before this you just had to rely on slipstream and if that didn’t get you past or at least fully along side you had no chance due to tiny braking zones.

[DoubleD]

ITP said:

DoubleD said:

ITP said:

Olivera said:

ITP said:

One of the main reasons I think it’s a bit boring sometimes is due to the very short braking distances. There is just no time to out brake anyone from behind. I suppose that’s why they brought in the KERS to allow at least some overtaking before you even get to a corner.
Do F1 cars still have any form of traction control, or was that recently banned too?

Traction control in F1 was banned over a decade ago. There's also lots of opportunity to outbrake other cars as there is no ABS.

I thought it had been banned. However, I don’t agree on the braking, unless someone is already alongside it’s virtually impossible to do as missing a braking point by a fraction of a second means the corner will be missed due to how late the cars brake now. Sure, it may be possible into a tight hairpin by ‘block passing’ but other than that not a lot of chance. Like I said, KERS was brought in just to allow any kind of overtaking I think due to difficulties created by the downforce and lack of longer braking zones.

I think you mean DRS?

Maybe, all these acronyms, it’s all a bit OTT..

The one I mean is the one that allows a boost of power when within 1 second in the prescribed zone just to allow overtaking. Like I said, before this you just had to rely on slipstream and if that didn’t get you past or at least fully along side you had no chance due to tiny braking zones.

The issue really has always been more about following a car onto the straight rather than the braking.

[donkmeister]

bcr5784 said:

J4CKO said:

Was pondering this last night with the mention of bikes.

Aside from mopeds and other sub motorbikes, are there any big bikes with auto gearboxes ?

I quite like my Trek Road bike as its sequential manual, its just that the engine, though quite large doesn't have a massive power output and the emissions arent great

We go on about interaction on here, try a road bike, dont get much more interactive than that, steering is pretty direct.

You can get a dual clutch automatic on a Honda Goldwing. And there are a few more here https://www.cycleworld.com/top-automatic-motorcycl...

I'm a few days late on this but...

Boss Hoss bikes... sort of. These have a transmission based on a PowerGlide, so it's a torque converter 2-speed auto. I seem to recall they have a manual valve to switch between Reverse/Neutral/Low/High. So, it won't automatically shift into high... no idea whether that could be easily modified, I suspect not!

Also the Marine Turbine bikes, again sort-of... I've never seen one in the metal but this video at 2:00 in shows the rider clearly releasing the "clutch" lever fully, which loads up the suspension, before then giving it some beans to light up the back tyre... So I'd assume it has some variety of fluid coupling... presumably this is after the turbine is geared down rather than at turbine speed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vck_5ouRaPw

Neither is going to be troubling Guy Martin at the TT or taking sales from Honda, but both companies make some pretty interesting bikes!

[otolith]

DoubleD said:

otolith said:

DRS and KERS both work to create performance disparities between cars at different times, in order to create overtaking opportunities.

Yes I know. But he was talking about drag and thats where DRS comes in, also KERS allowed both drivers to use it at the same time, which often used to cancel it out.

I think he was talking about the difficulty following closely caused by the reliance on aero being part of the problem. It's all the same problem really.

[ddom]

DoubleD said:

Yep thought so.

Apart from anti stall, auto downshift (still yes?), pit lane limiters...and about 120 people per car and one to one communication. But I’m sure those buttons on the steering wheel are all just for show?

[Hungrymc]

donkmeister said:

bcr5784 said:

J4CKO said:

Was pondering this last night with the mention of bikes.

Aside from mopeds and other sub motorbikes, are there any big bikes with auto gearboxes ?

I quite like my Trek Road bike as its sequential manual, its just that the engine, though quite large doesn't have a massive power output and the emissions arent great

We go on about interaction on here, try a road bike, dont get much more interactive than that, steering is pretty direct.

You can get a dual clutch automatic on a Honda Goldwing. And there are a few more here https://www.cycleworld.com/top-automatic-motorcycl...

I'm a few days late on this but...

Boss Hoss bikes... sort of. These have a transmission based on a PowerGlide, so it's a torque converter 2-speed auto. I seem to recall they have a manual valve to switch between Reverse/Neutral/Low/High. So, it won't automatically shift into high... no idea whether that could be easily modified, I suspect not!

Also the Marine Turbine bikes, again sort-of... I've never seen one in the metal but this video at 2:00 in shows the rider clearly releasing the "clutch" lever fully, which loads up the suspension, before then giving it some beans to light up the back tyre... So I'd assume it has some variety of fluid coupling... presumably this is after the turbine is geared down rather than at turbine speed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vck_5ouRaPw

Neither is going to be troubling Guy Martin at the TT or taking sales from Honda, but both companies make some pretty interesting bikes!

How close to an auto / paddle shift box is a quick shifter ? I think it allows gear changes where I normally wouldn't, and allows much later braking and an easier time setting the bike to enter a corner.... It certainly makes a bike faster and I've found it quite enjoyable to use. But very different to a normal box, and I do enjoy rev matching down shifts and having to time my up shifts too.

[StuntmanMike]

donkmeister said:

bcr5784 said:

J4CKO said:

Was pondering this last night with the mention of bikes.

Aside from mopeds and other sub motorbikes, are there any big bikes with auto gearboxes ?

I quite like my Trek Road bike as its sequential manual, its just that the engine, though quite large doesn't have a massive power output and the emissions arent great

We go on about interaction on here, try a road bike, dont get much more interactive than that, steering is pretty direct.

You can get a dual clutch automatic on a Honda Goldwing. And there are a few more here https://www.cycleworld.com/top-automatic-motorcycl...

I'm a few days late on this but...

Boss Hoss bikes... sort of. These have a transmission based on a PowerGlide, so it's a torque converter 2-speed auto. I seem to recall they have a manual valve to switch between Reverse/Neutral/Low/High. So, it won't automatically shift into high... no idea whether that could be easily modified, I suspect not!

Also the Marine Turbine bikes, again sort-of... I've never seen one in the metal but this video at 2:00 in shows the rider clearly releasing the "clutch" lever fully, which loads up the suspension, before then giving it some beans to light up the back tyre... So I'd assume it has some variety of fluid coupling... presumably this is after the turbine is geared down rather than at turbine speed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vck_5ouRaPw

Neither is going to be troubling Guy Martin at the TT or taking sales from Honda, but both companies make some pretty interesting bikes!

I’m sure Honda did an auto version of the CB750.