RE: TVR seeks £25m investment to secure future
Discussion
chelme said:
And...what have you contributed to this discussion? F.u.c.k all. It's because you have nothing to contribute, but s
te. And then you have the moment to project your own self on to others.
Oh...sorry, the one about TVR being compatible with EV power...so what was that, a copy and paste? What an idiot. The company is doomed. Get over it.
So you’re one of those that feels The need to add something to a discussion even if you have no clue what you’re talking about.te. And then you have the moment to project your own self on to others. Oh...sorry, the one about TVR being compatible with EV power...so what was that, a copy and paste? What an idiot. The company is doomed. Get over it.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 23:48
Sometimes not saying anything is better than saying something that makes you look like a tool.
I started out being really excited/pleased of the thought that TVR could come back for sure, but I don't think that there is a cat in hells chance of it happening now. It just gets more and more embarrassing as time goes on. This debacle needs putting out of its misery for good now I reckon sadly.
chelme said:
fblm said:
chelme said:
Haha. Twaddle? Speak for your self. As for the management? If the Germans thought the brand was worth saving, they"d buy it and manage it properly, like they have done with, let's see....how about Bentley, RR, oh and shall we add Jaguar Land Rover?! Why not...
Keep on sticking your head in the sand...there's a good lad.
Dear god. There's obviously a bar somewhere in imminent danger of collapse without you leaning on it, boring everyone within earshot with your expertise.Keep on sticking your head in the sand...there's a good lad.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 19:31
te. And then you have the moment to project your own self on to others. Oh...sorry, the one about TVR being compatible with EV power...so what was that, a copy and paste? What an idiot. The company is doomed. Get over it.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 23:48
These guys should buy the TVR brand and immediately stick it on this brute:
https://mulholland.group/automotive/
https://mulholland.group/automotive/
I get the impression this is just another tactic for keeping a concept on life support whilst every penny is drained from the existing coffers by all the directors, consultants etc on the payroll until such time as the corpse has been flogged so much there is not an ounce of blood left in it, then finally fold the whole thing, rinse and repeat with another fantasy scheme that the Welsh assembly will fall for yet again.
Who the hell is going to put another penny into this now, only a handful of enthusiasts could not see through the emperors new clothes in the early days, but those deposits will not have lasted long, this was then followed by the clowns in the WAG, or is this latest scheme a way for investment types to do some clever accounting with other peoples money, take a fee and not worry that none of their clients money will ever be seen again?
Les has got his toy now, so no real need to build any more anyway.
Who the hell is going to put another penny into this now, only a handful of enthusiasts could not see through the emperors new clothes in the early days, but those deposits will not have lasted long, this was then followed by the clowns in the WAG, or is this latest scheme a way for investment types to do some clever accounting with other peoples money, take a fee and not worry that none of their clients money will ever be seen again?
Les has got his toy now, so no real need to build any more anyway.
Hitch said:
These guys should buy the TVR brand and immediately stick it on this brute:
https://mulholland.group/automotive/
https://mulholland.group/automotive/
article said:
beautifully sculptured
PAUL500 said:
I get the impression this is just another tactic for keeping a concept on life support whilst every penny is drained from the existing coffers by all the directors, consultants etc on the payroll until such time as the corpse has been flogged so much there is not an ounce of blood left in it, then finally fold the whole thing, rinse and repeat with another fantasy scheme that the Welsh assembly will fall for yet again.
Who the hell is going to put another penny into this now, only a handful of enthusiasts could not see through the emperors new clothes in the early days, but those deposits will not have lasted long, this was then followed by the clowns in the WAG, or is this latest scheme a way for investment types to do some clever accounting with other peoples money, take a fee and not worry that none of their clients money will ever be seen again?
Les has got his toy now, so no real need to build any more anyway.
Sounds very much like Norton - seemed its main reason to exist was to generate loansWho the hell is going to put another penny into this now, only a handful of enthusiasts could not see through the emperors new clothes in the early days, but those deposits will not have lasted long, this was then followed by the clowns in the WAG, or is this latest scheme a way for investment types to do some clever accounting with other peoples money, take a fee and not worry that none of their clients money will ever be seen again?
Les has got his toy now, so no real need to build any more anyway.
TVR always had quality issues, but they got away with it due to adventurous styling and an excess of power. This design is far too safe and clearly is the result of a committee decision. Previous TVR designs always looked as if they were signed off by one stubborn bloke, and that was why they worked. A TVR should have the type of extrovert, uncompromised design that no "Design Committee reporting to a board" would ever sanction. Everything starts with good design. That's their first job. Hope they somehow manage to do it.
Ok so in summary they have just lost their Finance Director Ian Chammings in March , the have an extended accounting period due to Covid which is fair enough , the factory building debacle looks ongoing as the refurbishment tendering process is completed but no work started, so physically still no factory to build them in , no production staff as there is nothing to build, lack of pretty much any physical progress on any development front , no new press releases on how the car has gone from design freeze prototype (2017 launch car )to failure and effects analysis vehicles to production verification vehicles to road development mileage mules and the final production ready evaluation vehicles. . . errr as there aren't any of these in existence . Supply chain and finance there of ? Nope.
This car is ,as it stands today on the assumption of a successful £25m bond issue , is at least 3 years away from scaleable production just purely based on the development vehicles timescale alone above ..... In which case the car is already 8-9 years old in terms of design and tech even before it hits the Showroom. Are the odds stacked against them , yes , do i want to see a new TVR , absolutely , will this management succeed in delivering it, No.
I think £25m only scratches the surface of what is needed finance wise, half of that will be spent day one getting the factory production ready .I would triple that to £75m needed ,as you cannot just hope to produce 50 -100 cars in the first year and blame everything on Covid , you need a 700-1000 cars in year one and upwards from there to make the bond issue work. I believe there will need to be a body and cabin redesign , the platform and drive train will need further variations as a 9 year old ford engine just wont cut it. You just can't take this amount of time to bring a product to market as 18 months to 2 years is now considered to be pedestrian.
How do I in reality see things going , the bond issue won't complete, as it is essentially an IOU , there is no factory or production ready car and no sane director will commit to a PG of £25m backed by personal physical assets, so how do you envisage paying the coupon and initial sum back , and why would you need a bond in the first place just bank roll it yourself if you had those assets . Supply chain finance is the next thorny subject as to scale up parts supply you will need a fairly heft finance package to build the 20 -30 cars a week needed at say 20% of the sale value will be parts cost, those are pretty big rolling facilities day one. They have reached the end of their overdraft and loans , they really cannot touch depositors money as there isnt a production car to sell them yet . I would foresee the entire project being sold along with the IP to a very brave individual with a few spare billions. Can't see any other outcome .
This car is ,as it stands today on the assumption of a successful £25m bond issue , is at least 3 years away from scaleable production just purely based on the development vehicles timescale alone above ..... In which case the car is already 8-9 years old in terms of design and tech even before it hits the Showroom. Are the odds stacked against them , yes , do i want to see a new TVR , absolutely , will this management succeed in delivering it, No.
I think £25m only scratches the surface of what is needed finance wise, half of that will be spent day one getting the factory production ready .I would triple that to £75m needed ,as you cannot just hope to produce 50 -100 cars in the first year and blame everything on Covid , you need a 700-1000 cars in year one and upwards from there to make the bond issue work. I believe there will need to be a body and cabin redesign , the platform and drive train will need further variations as a 9 year old ford engine just wont cut it. You just can't take this amount of time to bring a product to market as 18 months to 2 years is now considered to be pedestrian.
How do I in reality see things going , the bond issue won't complete, as it is essentially an IOU , there is no factory or production ready car and no sane director will commit to a PG of £25m backed by personal physical assets, so how do you envisage paying the coupon and initial sum back , and why would you need a bond in the first place just bank roll it yourself if you had those assets . Supply chain finance is the next thorny subject as to scale up parts supply you will need a fairly heft finance package to build the 20 -30 cars a week needed at say 20% of the sale value will be parts cost, those are pretty big rolling facilities day one. They have reached the end of their overdraft and loans , they really cannot touch depositors money as there isnt a production car to sell them yet . I would foresee the entire project being sold along with the IP to a very brave individual with a few spare billions. Can't see any other outcome .
tommy1973s said:
TVR always had quality issues, but they got away with it due to adventurous styling and an excess of power. This design is far too safe and clearly is the result of a committee decision. Previous TVR designs always looked as if they were signed off by one stubborn bloke, and that was why they worked. A TVR should have the type of extrovert, uncompromised design that no "Design Committee reporting to a board" would ever sanction. Everything starts with good design. That's their first job. Hope they somehow manage to do it.
Totally agree.My Tuscan was spotted in France and posted on the Autogespot web site a few years back with the comment;
"What a magnificent car! A real piece of automobile art."
https://www.autogespot.co.uk/spots?licenseplate=GX...
While I know not all love the Tuscan shape, or the other T-cars for that matter, I don't think the current design falls into the same category of discussion.
To be fair to TVR, not having employees isn’t a great way to judge them. Most of the design work I’ve see has been through agency staff or GMD who would never show up on a payroll.
However, a factory in need of a roof and ‘just’ £25 million to get it going sounds optimistic. But it would be great to see them going again.
However, a factory in need of a roof and ‘just’ £25 million to get it going sounds optimistic. But it would be great to see them going again.
SpeckledJim said:
chelme said:
fblm said:
chelme said:
Haha. Twaddle? Speak for your self. As for the management? If the Germans thought the brand was worth saving, they"d buy it and manage it properly, like they have done with, let's see....how about Bentley, RR, oh and shall we add Jaguar Land Rover?! Why not...
Keep on sticking your head in the sand...there's a good lad.
Dear god. There's obviously a bar somewhere in imminent danger of collapse without you leaning on it, boring everyone within earshot with your expertise.Keep on sticking your head in the sand...there's a good lad.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 19:31
te. And then you have the moment to project your own self on to others. Oh...sorry, the one about TVR being compatible with EV power...so what was that, a copy and paste? What an idiot. The company is doomed. Get over it.
Edited by chelme on Thursday 25th June 23:48
So many many brands have failed and they have been bought out by way of foreign investment. I know with globalisation, this was bound to happen to some degree, but I have over time been genuinely interested about how all these great brands were lost/given away and why we continue to see so many rise and fall, or not make it off the ground.
We have not really seen this happen in the US, Germany, France, Italy to the same degree. And it begs the question why did this occur in the UK? It's a subject of interest not to to me but others, some of whom have agreed with my post and others who have substantively challenged me, giving reasons, which is great!
I am basing my earlier comments on reading widely about the motor industry in the UK from a historical point of view as well as observing what has been going on recently. It would be great if some of the "contributers" here substantially challenged the points I made rather than being trolls.
There was a discussion here which could have been had, but instead it turns out few people have anything of real value/observation to add but to simply say "that crap" or " thats BS". Or that is "boring". Well, don't read it then?! Or they could have said "you are wrong because" giving details.
It's not that difficult to keep it civil is it?
"TVR is targeting the Dublin Stock Exchange with its bonds"
As a person who dabbles in shares I am not sure what the Dublin stock exchange ticker name is ... any suggestions, preferably funny ?
I'm thinking of buying Aston shares today to sell before 29th July and then buy again, and I thought that is slightly risky.
If only TVR had made a sporty SUV for their comeback .....
As a person who dabbles in shares I am not sure what the Dublin stock exchange ticker name is ... any suggestions, preferably funny ?
I'm thinking of buying Aston shares today to sell before 29th July and then buy again, and I thought that is slightly risky.
If only TVR had made a sporty SUV for their comeback .....
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