RE: 'Hard Top' returns to Land Rover Defender

[RoverP6B]

NomduJour said:

You really have absolutely no idea nor experience about this stuff, do you?

Personal experience - limited to towing glider winches around boggy airfields in Scotland with 109s in the 1970s, I'm afraid. ISTR those winches weighed around fifteen tons, btw. Otherwise I'm limited to what I've seen others (particularly RAF and railwaymen) do with them and, in the last couple of years, what my many Land Rover-owning neighbours here in Devon have told me about how they use theirs. They aren't buying anything JLR makes now, despite many of them having bought Defenders new, right up to 2017 in some cases - and they have often found the Japanese pickups wanting, muttering darkly into their cider about bent and snapped chassis, most infamously on the Nissan Navara, but also on Mitsubishi L200s: even the much-vaunted Toyota Hilux is not immune. They are watching the Grenadier with keen interest - if it isn't priced outrageously high, sales will result.

[camel_landy]

RoverP6B said:

Personal experience...

RoverP6B said:

Now, I'm no expert on this, it's been 45 years since I last drove a Land Rover and I have never done any serious off-roading...

Things have come a LONG way in the 45yrs since you last had any experience of such things.

There are some people here, who can offer informed opinion, from significant personal experience (including people who work in the industry)... All I'm getting from you and your comments is just 'noise'.

M

[595Heaven]

camel_landy said:

RoverP6B said:

Personal experience...

RoverP6B said:

Now, I'm no expert on this, it's been 45 years since I last drove a Land Rover and I have never done any serious off-roading...

Things have come a LONG way in the 45yrs since you last had any experience of such things.

There are some people here, who can offer informed opinion, from significant personal experience (including people who work in the industry)... All I'm getting from you and your comments is just 'noise'.

M

Uninformed noise at that, sadly.

[RoverP6B]

The fact is that I did stuff with Land Rovers in the 70s that *nothing* JLR makes can do now. Like hauling fifteen-ton glider winches out of holes in the ground on wet, boggy airfields. Many others have done other significantly demanding things with their Land Rovers, including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

[LimaDelta]

RoverP6B said:

including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

I am far from the biggest fan of the new Defender but I have to say that is labouring the point somewhat. I'm pretty sure (checks notes...), that being airdroppable was never on JLRs list of requirements. Sheep and axles are one thing, but I think you just jumped the shark with that one.

[AngryPartsBloke]

RoverP6B said:

The fact is that I did stuff with Land Rovers in the 70s that *nothing* JLR makes can do now. Like hauling fifteen-ton glider winches out of holes in the ground on wet, boggy airfields. Many others have done other significantly demanding things with their Land Rovers, including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

3500kg is a legal limit, not a maximum. It can and will tow a lot more, just like the Discovery 5 and every other land rover moder or not.

[Bill]

RoverP6B said:

The fact is that I did stuff with Land Rovers in the 70s that *nothing* JLR makes can do now. Like hauling fifteen-ton glider winches out of holes in the ground on wet, boggy airfields.

I suspect you find that impressive because the 109 with its wheezy engine and chocolate driveshafts made such a hash of it.

I suspect every 4x4 JLR (including the Jags...) makes is more capable than the 109.

[camel_landy]

RoverP6B said:

The fact is that I did stuff with Land Rovers in the 70s that *nothing* JLR makes can do now. Like hauling fifteen-ton glider winches out of holes in the ground on wet, boggy airfields. Many others have done other significantly demanding things with their Land Rovers, including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

Are you off your meds again?

...and as for "how many spot welds you rip open", probably none.

M

[biggles330d]

AngryPartsBloke said:

RoverP6B said:

The fact is that I did stuff with Land Rovers in the 70s that *nothing* JLR makes can do now. Like hauling fifteen-ton glider winches out of holes in the ground on wet, boggy airfields. Many others have done other significantly demanding things with their Land Rovers, including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

3500kg is a legal limit, not a maximum. It can and will tow a lot more, just like the Discovery 5 and every other land rover moder or not.

Fifteen tonnes... I'll raise yours to 110 tonnes.
https://media.landrover.com/news/2017/09/land-rove...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&amp...

Edited by biggles330d on Wednesday 8th July 08:32

[DoubleD]

Its funny seeing RoverP6B dig himself into a hole that not even the mighty old Defender could climb out of!

[camel_landy]

biggles330d said:

AngryPartsBloke said:

RoverP6B said:

A crock of st...

3500kg is a legal limit, not a maximum. It can and will tow a lot more, just like the Discovery 5 and every other land rover moder or not.

Fifteen tonnes... I'll raise yours to 110 tonnes.
https://media.landrover.com/news/2017/09/land-rove...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&amp...

M

[595Heaven]

biggles330d said:

Fifteen tonnes... I'll raise yours to 110 tonnes.
https://media.landrover.com/news/2017/09/land-rove...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&amp...

Don’t forget one of those monocoque bodied independently suspended SUVs can do that as well

[DonkeyApple]

LimaDelta said:

RoverP6B said:

including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

I am far from the biggest fan of the new Defender but I have to say that is labouring the point somewhat. I'm pretty sure (checks notes...), that being airdroppable was never on JLRs list of requirements. Sheep and axles are one thing, but I think you just jumped the shark with that one.

I think plonk has raised a valid point though. 2m new car sales a year and none of us have been able to tow a winch or air drop since the plonk left the RAF and the world fell apart. In 50 years no one has been able to find an alternative or superior solution to the problem of moving winches or airdropping.

[AngryPartsBloke]

DonkeyApple said:

LimaDelta said:

RoverP6B said:

including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

I am far from the biggest fan of the new Defender but I have to say that is labouring the point somewhat. I'm pretty sure (checks notes...), that being airdroppable was never on JLRs list of requirements. Sheep and axles are one thing, but I think you just jumped the shark with that one.

I think plonk has raised a valid point though. 2m new car sales a year and none of us have been able to tow a winch or air drop since the plonk left the RAF and the world fell apart. In 50 years no one has been able to find an alternative or superior solution to the problem of moving winches or airdropping.

Even a para hasn't been airdropped in combat operation since the Suez.

Air dropping...i mean seriously this has become an absolute farce.

[soxboy]

Dear Mr McGovern,

I am very disappointed to note that you have not engineered your new model to take into account the significant glider towing market. I fear you have made an error which has the potential to cost you up to a dozen secondhand sales over the next 20 years.

Yours, angrily...….

[DonkeyApple]

AngryPartsBloke said:

Even a para hasn't been airdropped in combat operation since the Suez.

Air dropping...i mean seriously this has become an absolute farce.

What about air dropping with a boot full of dead sheep? Have I missed the news? Is this not a popular thing these days?

[Bill]

DonkeyApple said:

What about air dropping with a boot full of dead sheep? Have I missed the news? Is this not a popular thing these days?

That would be stupid! Think of the carpets when the sheep explode on impact. You couldn't hose them out.

[DonkeyApple]

What if we banned carpets? And rugs. Especially rugs. They always seem suspiciously foreign. Get rid of carpets and rugs and start manufacturing snuff boxes?

[Evanivitch]

RoverP6B said:

The fact is that I did stuff with Land Rovers in the 70s that *nothing* JLR makes can do now. Like hauling fifteen-ton glider winches out of holes in the ground on wet, boggy airfields. Many others have done other significantly demanding things with their Land Rovers, including dropping them out of the back of aeroplanes. Try doing either of those with a monocoque that was only ever developed to tow a maximum 3500kg, and see how many ripples or degrees of bend you put in the floorpan and how many spot welds you rip open.

Name a current British Military vehicle designed for parachute drop...

[braddo]

LimaDelta said:

RoverP6B said:

...

... I think you just jumped the shark with that one.

Yes.

The particular hole P6B is going down seems to be the same weird one a certain Alice went down. Whatever next will we hear from P6B's trip to Wonderland...