RE: New e-tron S is the first fast Audi EV

[Ares]

SuperPav said:

Ares said:

Small hot-hatch S faster than big heavy SUV S shock?

OK, that's fair, I concede - I just looked up the performance of a SQ5 as a more relevant benchmark, and it's not as brisk as I assumed it would be.
Maybe because it's an EV, I had higher expectations for accel figures!

And it is faster than the SQ8 which is the more valid comparison!

[V12GT]

Mouse Rat said:

This week I've driven the Model 3 performance and mid level E-Tron. They are totally different, here's my thoughts

The Tesla very obviously has been designed as a EV from the ground up. As an EV its superior in everyway, its efficient, quick, nimble, easy to use, minimalistic and best of all has the charging infrastructure to support everyday use. I see why owners are smug gets, you feel everyone else is driving the past.
But as a car its dull, cheap, bland, tacky and very much a consumable. If it had a petrol engine it would be terrible.

The Audi as an EV is 3/5 of the Tesla. Slower (still quick for a car), less range, heavy and clumsy and reliant on a inconsistent and patchy infrastructure.
As a car its wonderful. Im no fan of the Q5, Q7 but the E-turd looks fantastic. With the smaller wheels and high profile tyres it look just right. The interior is wonderful and lightyears ahead of the model 3. Its a nice place to be.

I loved both of these oddballs . The Tesla is a whitegoods tool, designed to to get from A-B. The Audi is a flawed luxury item.

I'm hopping the Polestar 2 is the happy medium of a great car and EV.

I drove a Model S about 6 years ago and thought exactly the same thing. Tesla make brilliant EVs, but poor cars.

I've been waiting 6 years for the happy medium - not there yet, but it might be in the next 6, so I'll stick to petrol for the moment.

[alishutc]

Motorola said:

An estate BEV with Tesla range and speed would be nice.

Really hoping somebody comes out with something like this, I'm not into SUVs. Maybe Polestar will be the ones to deliver.

[theboss]

Ray_Aber said:

I cannot see the benefits of this over the Jaguar i-Pace. The Jag's styling is far better to my eyes (not overwrought with slashes and creases), it's designed as a BEV from the word go (and looks like it), has similar performance and rather better range, and also costs a significant amount less.

This car, to me, is just another over-styled mess with a very large price-tax attached. It's a lazy effort by comparison.

There was a £8000 benefit over 3 year lease total costs when I took an e-tron over an equivalent spec I-pace earlier this year.

[Ares]

theboss said:

Ray_Aber said:

I cannot see the benefits of this over the Jaguar i-Pace. The Jag's styling is far better to my eyes (not overwrought with slashes and creases), it's designed as a BEV from the word go (and looks like it), has similar performance and rather better range, and also costs a significant amount less.

This car, to me, is just another over-styled mess with a very large price-tax attached. It's a lazy effort by comparison.

There was a £8000 benefit over 3 year lease total costs when I took an e-tron over an equivalent spec I-pace earlier this year.

And the I-pace is a lot smaller.

[Mr E]

alishutc said:

Motorola said:

An estate BEV with Tesla range and speed would be nice.

Really hoping somebody comes out with something like this, I'm not into SUVs. Maybe Polestar will be the ones to deliver.

The only way I see an estate turning up is when the manufacturers get the BEV ‘roller skat’ sorted to the point where slapping a different body on is pretty trivial.

Currently, if it’s not an SUV, it’s not getting off the drawing board. It’s what the market wants.

A return to the days when you buy your chassis + power train, and then deliver it to your preferred coachbuilder?

[Ares]

Mr E said:

alishutc said:

Motorola said:

An estate BEV with Tesla range and speed would be nice.

Really hoping somebody comes out with something like this, I'm not into SUVs. Maybe Polestar will be the ones to deliver.

The only way I see an estate turning up is when the manufacturers get the BEV ‘roller skat’ sorted to the point where slapping a different body on is pretty trivial.

Currently, if it’s not an SUV, it’s not getting off the drawing board. It’s what the market wants.

A return to the days when you buy your chassis + power train, and then deliver it to your preferred coachbuilder?

Indeed. The added weight & bulk of an Electric drivetrain is more easily swallowed up in an SUV, plus I'd guess the overlap between likely EV adopters and SUV buyers is far greater than other segments. (i.e. SUV haters are typically anti-EV too)

[FN2TypeR]

stabilio said:

Whatever you think of Tesla, they are miles ahead of the traditional ‘big boys’ in the EV market. How does the Audi have such a big battery, with 3 motors yet get such poor performance?

It's working hard to lug all of those soft touch plastics around.

[Zep56]

I Pace has no performance model! The basic S has the same 0-60 as the Audi and suggest on a challenging UK B road the I Pace would be well ahead

[anonymous-user]

Quite like the look of that but for a near 100kWh battery the range is what, 5 years behind Telsa maybe more?

[anonymous-user]

V12GT said:

I drove a Model S about 6 years ago and thought exactly the same thing. Tesla make brilliant EVs, but poor cars.

I've been waiting 6 years for the happy medium - not there yet, but it might be in the next 6, so I'll stick to petrol for the moment.

Agreed. For around a hundred grand it's not unreasonable to expect both.

[BogBeast]

V12GT said:

Mouse Rat said:

This week I've driven the Model 3 performance and mid level E-Tron. They are totally different, here's my thoughts

The Tesla very obviously has been designed as a EV from the ground up. As an EV its superior in everyway, its efficient, quick, nimble, easy to use, minimalistic and best of all has the charging infrastructure to support everyday use. I see why owners are smug gets, you feel everyone else is driving the past.
But as a car its dull, cheap, bland, tacky and very much a consumable. If it had a petrol engine it would be terrible.

The Audi as an EV is 3/5 of the Tesla. Slower (still quick for a car), less range, heavy and clumsy and reliant on a inconsistent and patchy infrastructure.
As a car its wonderful. Im no fan of the Q5, Q7 but the E-turd looks fantastic. With the smaller wheels and high profile tyres it look just right. The interior is wonderful and lightyears ahead of the model 3. Its a nice place to be.

I loved both of these oddballs . The Tesla is a whitegoods tool, designed to to get from A-B. The Audi is a flawed luxury item.

I'm hopping the Polestar 2 is the happy medium of a great car and EV.

I drove a Model S about 6 years ago and thought exactly the same thing. Tesla make brilliant EVs, but poor cars.

I've been waiting 6 years for the happy medium - not there yet, but it might be in the next 6, so I'll stick to petrol for the moment.

Mouse Rat said:

...its dull, cheap, bland, tacky and very much a consumable...

consumable? I am not sure what you mean by that. Aren't all cars consumables? especially run of the mill, german middle tier, common platform marketing/badging efforts like most of Audis portfolio? surely the definition of a 3 year swap PCP ...

Tacky? nope. Not up to the finish of BMW/AUDI etc.. but not tacky.

Dull/bland.. nope. you drove it right? perhaps to look at. But then I don't spend a lot of time staring at it. After a succession of petrol/diesel VW's Skoda, BMW etc etc in the last 20 years, its one of the few recent cars I go and drive just for the hell of it. No other common production car has made me do that for donkeys.

Yep. Tesla have a way to go on fit, finish and perceived quality of finish compared to the usual suspects, but for me the driving experience just outweighs all of that. All the torque all the time just does not get old...

[Leon R]

No sure why people keep saying tesla are years ahead when it comes to range. The Taycan range is quoted at roughly 100 miles less than the Model S but when tested side by side the difference was 10 miles in favour of the Tesla.

Hardly a crushing victory, especially when you acknowledge that the fact that the consistency of performance as the battery drained was in favour of the Taycan.

[anonymous-user]

It's got 500bhp and 700lb of torque. Why can it only do 130mph?

[JonnyVTEC]

Peak motor (and battery) output is quite different to continuous sustained power.

[nicholas-z5kep]

, Interesting- so I have an etron as well as a Range Rover 4.4 tdb8. Basically the Audi is mass overly superior for short journeys when you are charging at
Home- feels fast, premium etc. but for
Log tried s a disaster, low range, terrible charging infratusture, just awfull. Great car for everyday driving where you charge from home but
For longer trip s you need something else

[fmnjg]

I don't know what the obsession with 0-60 times is, EVs nearly always feel quick due to the instant torque. Far more important is the range and if the always hugely optimistic WLTP figure is only 225 miles, the reality will be a lot lower, particularly if the performance used, which is the point of 'S' models isn't it? As such, the take up will remain poor.

[J4CKO]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

It's got 500bhp and 700lb of torque. Why can it only do 130mph?

Suspect it only has one gear, so top speed may be down to the max rpm of the motor vs the final drive, or could just be limited by Audi. Cant imagine range is great at that speed, not a concern for us in the UK with our speed limits but on the Autobahn it might be, but not sure who regularly travels that fast in reality, they probably wouldnt buy and EV anyway.

[fmnjg]

BogBeast said:

consumable? I am not sure what you mean by that. Aren't all cars consumables? especially run of the mill, german middle tier, common platform marketing/badging efforts like most of Audis portfolio? surely the definition of a 3 year swap PCP ...

Tacky? nope. Not up to the finish of BMW/AUDI etc.. but not tacky.

Dull/bland.. nope. you drove it right? perhaps to look at. But then I don't spend a lot of time staring at it. After a succession of petrol/diesel VW's Skoda, BMW etc etc in the last 20 years, its one of the few recent cars I go and drive just for the hell of it. No other common production car has made me do that for donkeys.

Yep. Tesla have a way to go on fit, finish and perceived quality of finish compared to the usual suspects, but for me the driving experience just outweighs all of that. All the torque all the time just does not get old...

I agree with all of that as the more expensive Audis can't really just be called consumables although Tesla's are closer to being white goods on wheels. From a pure driving viewpoint, the instant torque and low centre of mass makes EVs fun. However, one could never be an enthusiast as the engine is the heart and soul, with their different delivery characteristics and sounds (spine tingling electric motor whines?), so I can understand the consumables viewpoint even if it is overly simplistic.

[anonymous-user]

J4CKO said:

Suspect it only has one gear, so top speed may be down to the max rpm of the motor vs the final drive, or could just be limited by Audi. Cant imagine range is great at that speed, not a concern for us in the UK with our speed limits but on the Autobahn it might be, but not sure who regularly travels that fast in reality, they probably wouldnt buy and EV anyway.

Sounds about right. The Taycan has two gears for a better top speed, does it not?