RE: New e-tron S is the first fast Audi EV

[Harry H]

Really don't get this car let alone the price tag.

With the rate of change in this tech at the moment by the time you've ordered it and taken delivery it'll be out of date.

If you're buying something as big and comfy as this I assume it's because you'll do some reasonably long journeys yet it can barely manage to get you 100 miles away from home and back again.

I get the small EV thing. Popping to the shops, taking the kids to school, commuting etc but someone who's spending £86k will surely want to go a bit further. In which case you'll need another similar car for the purpose as well, all be it with a Hybrid.

I could also understand if going on a decent trip it could manage 4 hrs of work as thats sort of the normal break time for a recharge of both the car and drivers batteries. But this thing you'd have barley left home on your journey before looking for a charging station.

Heck even a proper electric drivers car I can see a point. But not this. It ticks so few boxes.

[Leon R]

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

[Harry H]

Leon R said:

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

Not most of the time no, but surely you'd occasionally want to go down to Cornwall, visit the lakes, go and see Granny and Grand Pa, go skiing. The type of activity parents of posh school pupils pretend to do for which you'd need another car. So it's a rich persons runabout.

[theboss]

Harry H said:

Not most of the time no, but surely you'd occasionally want to go down to Cornwall, visit the lakes, go and see Granny and Grand Pa, go skiing. The type of activity parents of posh school pupils pretend to do for which you'd need another car. So it's a rich persons runabout.

Not speaking for the 'S' model, but a lot of the ones appearing on the road now were sold on lease deals back in Feb-March where they were priced comparably to small electric hatches. Some NHS workers have had e-tron 50's for £300-350 a month with no BIK tax to pay and negligible running costs. Hardly a rich person's runabout.

The list price is largely irrelevant on the higher end models as company car drivers will only be concerned with the net cost, which is still very compelling when you take the tax advantage into account.

Edited by theboss on Friday 3rd July 16:45

[Harry H]

theboss said:

Not speaking for the 'S' model, but a lot of the ones appearing on the road now were sold on lease deals back in Feb-March where they were priced comparably to small electric hatches. Some NHS workers have had e-tron 50's for £300-350 a month with no BIK tax to pay and negligible running costs. Hardly a rich person's runabout.

Totally agree with what you've said there about the e-tron but I thought we were talking about the "S" model as that's what the article is about.

[theboss]

Harry H said:

Totally agree with what you've said there about the e-tron but I thought we were talking about the "S" model as that's what the article is about.

Indeed, but £85k+ e-trons have been with us already for a year. I'd have been quite happy to pay a bit more for one over the 55 that I have. The list price isn't much a consideration, if you're paying a high marginal rate of tax its a case of an expensive EV tax free vs a cheap car heavily taxed.

[Terminator X]

£87k though, surely virtually no one can afford it? What about the weight, heavy bd I assume?

TX.

[Ares]

Leon R said:

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

For most it is the family car that any longer trips will be used for.

[anonymous-user]

Leon R said:

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. The vast majority of cars do small journeys most of the time and occasional long journeys. Very few cars only ever do long journeys or only ever do short journeys. The number of driven wheels or amount of school fees is completely irrelevant.

[Ares]

fblm said:

Leon R said:

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. The vast majority of cars do small journeys most of the time and occasional long journeys. Very few cars only ever do long journeys or only ever do short journeys. The number of driven wheels or amount of school fees is completely irrelevant.

And 'posh school' family are more likely to do longer driven distances, from my experience.

[Leon R]

Ares said:

fblm said:

Leon R said:

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. The vast majority of cars do small journeys most of the time and occasional long journeys. Very few cars only ever do long journeys or only ever do short journeys. The number of driven wheels or amount of school fees is completely irrelevant.

And 'posh school' family are more likely to do longer driven distances, from my experience.

Just doesn't seem like a big deal to me, I am sure there are plenty of people in England with big SUV's who never do over 200 miles in one go.

[Ares]

Leon R said:

Ares said:

fblm said:

Leon R said:

Drive past a posh school at pick up or drop off time and tell me that most big 4X4's are used for long journeys.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. The vast majority of cars do small journeys most of the time and occasional long journeys. Very few cars only ever do long journeys or only ever do short journeys. The number of driven wheels or amount of school fees is completely irrelevant.

And 'posh school' family are more likely to do longer driven distances, from my experience.

Just doesn't seem like a big deal to me, I am sure there are plenty of people in England with big SUV's who never do over 200 miles in one go.

Only people who don't realise they need their choice of car ratified by the PH committee to verify it's suitability, and to ensure it's planned use fits with the definition of its designed use (as per the PH committee).

[whp1983]

People saying Tesla battery tech better but it’s mostly Panasonic or in China LG.... with development by CATL.... Surely other manufacturers have same access as I don’t believe there’s exclusivity deal? .... or do Tesla add a magic ingredient?!

Anyway if Audi or any of them did an electric estate car with a little more range I’d be in for that as a daily

[DonkeyApple]

Numeric said:

And it's not top trumps for me to be able to get to Heathrow and back without charging (100 miles each way for me) - it would be horrid to always have to stop. People tell me that the best way to view range numbers is to drop by a third for safe real world range (I have no other guide so would love to be corrected) so when I see the top range Mustang can give me this if I read the stats correctly but the Audi at a massive price premium can't even do 200 miles by the calculation - well I just don't see the point.

225 mile range would be bad enough in a product designed to be driven by Mrs Miggins in the middle lane at 60mph. This is a performance focussed car so the run to the motorway will be spirited and your cruising speed on the motorway will be closer to 100.

If 225 is the biggest number VW could squeeze out from the pretty flawed officienl system then this article left me thinking that your 100 mile run to Heathrow and mine to central London would require a stop for charging each way.

And forget about using it to go anywhere else other than the school run and Tescos. You’re going to be hypermiling everywhere you go and where you go is going to have to planned in advance and defined by usable charge points.

£100k+ for a performance vehicle that can barely work in non performance usage. To all intents and purposes It’s basically a seriously disabled car that the owner is going to have to invest a lot of time caring for and nurturing despite all the State support they have.

[Pablo16v]

DonkeyApple said:

Numeric said:

And it's not top trumps for me to be able to get to Heathrow and back without charging (100 miles each way for me) - it would be horrid to always have to stop. People tell me that the best way to view range numbers is to drop by a third for safe real world range (I have no other guide so would love to be corrected) so when I see the top range Mustang can give me this if I read the stats correctly but the Audi at a massive price premium can't even do 200 miles by the calculation - well I just don't see the point.

225 mile range would be bad enough in a product designed to be driven by Mrs Miggins in the middle lane at 60mph. This is a performance focussed car so the run to the motorway will be spirited and your cruising speed on the motorway will be closer to 100.

If 225 is the biggest number VW could squeeze out from the pretty flawed officienl system then this article left me thinking that your 100 mile run to Heathrow and mine to central London would require a stop for charging each way.

And forget about using it to go anywhere else other than the school run and Tescos. You’re going to be hypermiling everywhere you go and where you go is going to have to planned in advance and defined by usable charge points.

£100k+ for a performance vehicle that can barely work in non performance usage. To all intents and purposes It’s basically a seriously disabled car that the owner is going to have to invest a lot of time caring for and nurturing despite all the State support they have.

On the other side of the range argument I can't actually recall the last time I had to drive further than the 75 miles between our home and the holiday home we visit in Aviemore, which we do a few times per year, and which this e-tron would handle perfectly well. The rest of the time it's 30-40 mile round trips to visit family or popping into Aberdeen shopping, or 30 mile round trips commuting, so the 200-odd mile range is more than adequate. If I did need to travel more than 200 miles in one go, and there was little time for charging, then I'd take my wife's diesel A6 but in the past 12 months I can think of only one journey where I'd need to do that.

[RobDickinson]

All down to if it suits you.

The 55 can make good long distance progress if you've 150kw chargers handy

[DonkeyApple]

Pablo16v said:

On the other side of the range argument I can't actually recall the last time I had to drive further than the 75 miles between our home and the holiday home we visit in Aviemore, which we do a few times per year, and which this e-tron would handle perfectly well. The rest of the time it's 30-40 mile round trips to visit family or popping into Aberdeen shopping, or 30 mile round trips commuting, so the 200-odd mile range is more than adequate. If I did need to travel more than 200 miles in one go, and there was little time for charging, then I'd take my wife's diesel A6 but in the past 12 months I can think of only one journey where I'd need to do that.

Agreed but it’s still £100k+ to put yourself in a box with a type of car that is supposed to free you from constraints.

To really get the most out of an EV, at present, you either need a potterer for local duties which I think they work brilliantly for, albeit at prices that aren’t really that sensible at present or quite high annual mileages to get the benefit of electric running over diesel or petrol. Conversely, I think this has the ability of a local potterer packaged into the body and weight of a mile muncher.

[rxe]

DonkeyApple said:

Agreed but it’s still £100k+ to put yourself in a box with a type of car that is supposed to free you from constraints.

To really get the most out of an EV, at present, you either need a potterer for local duties which I think they work brilliantly for, albeit at prices that aren’t really that sensible at present or quite high annual mileages to get the benefit of electric running over diesel or petrol. Conversely, I think this has the ability of a local potterer packaged into the body and weight of a mile muncher.

The sweet spot for an EV seems to be someone doing 100 miles each way as a commute (assuming the range is actually 200 miles). They get the advantages of cheap fuel, and it sort of becomes worth the price of the car.

Someone doing local pottering will never recoup the massive price of the car. Someone doing 300 miles a day will be pissed off at having to recharge.

[RobDickinson]

What's this about recouping the cost of the car crap?

No one buys an x5m or sq7 worries about that even if its only ever used for the school run

[DonkeyApple]

I tend to agree. The upside for local pottering is mainly the cleaner local air and the lower noise. But that local pottering can still be quite a few miles a day. A couple of school runs to different schools, a couple of runs to different shops, runs to after school activities plus socialising. A small EV with 100 mile daily range is ideal for many users who have the single income sufficient to support that sort of lifestyle. Hardly a car for the people yet.

This thing just seems a bit odd. It’s the size of a family mile muncher or larger commuter but doesn’t have the range. It has the range for pottering but is way over priced and sized for that duty. And it doesn’t seem to have the balls out massive over performance that a big EV can have over its petrol or diesel rival.

It’s seems incredibly niche even for an EV.