RE: New e-tron S is the first fast Audi EV
Discussion
whp1983 said:
People saying Tesla battery tech better but it’s mostly Panasonic or in China LG.... with development by CATL.... Surely other manufacturers have same access as I don’t believe there’s exclusivity deal? .... or do Tesla add a magic ingredient?!
Anyway if Audi or any of them did an electric estate car with a little more range I’d be in for that as a daily
Tesla buy the cells but make the packs and the battery management software, so own the warranty, most other OEMs buy the whole pack, and the supplier owns the warranty, hence being more limited in how far they push the packAnyway if Audi or any of them did an electric estate car with a little more range I’d be in for that as a daily
On 2nd point am in the same boat, i need a hatch boot and 200 mile range to be viable without affecting me significantly (as i need the 20-80% range to be 120miles so i can do 2 days commute without recharge) . So only the polestar2 has any potential currently or a PHEV estate
DonkeyApple said:
Pablo16v said:
On the other side of the range argument I can't actually recall the last time I had to drive further than the 75 miles between our home and the holiday home we visit in Aviemore, which we do a few times per year, and which this e-tron would handle perfectly well. The rest of the time it's 30-40 mile round trips to visit family or popping into Aberdeen shopping, or 30 mile round trips commuting, so the 200-odd mile range is more than adequate. If I did need to travel more than 200 miles in one go, and there was little time for charging, then I'd take my wife's diesel A6 but in the past 12 months I can think of only one journey where I'd need to do that.
Agreed but it’s still £100k+ to put yourself in a box with a type of car that is supposed to free you from constraints. To really get the most out of an EV, at present, you either need a potterer for local duties which I think they work brilliantly for, albeit at prices that aren’t really that sensible at present or quite high annual mileages to get the benefit of electric running over diesel or petrol. Conversely, I think this has the ability of a local potterer packaged into the body and weight of a mile muncher.
I've NEVER driven 250 miles without a 15-30min stop. No would really ever should. I drive 227 miles to Edinburgh every month or so. We always stop at Gretna Services for a pee, coffee and stretch the dog's legs. Always over 20mins, often well over 30. So with this, you park on the 'leccy spaces and grab a 70-100mile of range.
Zero impact.
I will also not have had to take 15mins out to top the tank up of my ICE the night before setting off.
When we get to hotel, the car would be plugged in and miraculously be 'full tank' by the following day. The 50-100 miles we generally do whilst there would be easy and FOC, as with some places would the parking. Each night the car would be 'full tank' ready for when we come to depart...again saving me a 20min trip to brim the tank with SUL.
Even taking the cost issues away, the is no reason why this EV would be any less suitable than either the same car with a ICE, or indeed any other car....with the possible exception of a genuine 600mile range diesel.
Adding cost issues back in, especially taxation, it could be a complexing argument for a lot of people.
The number of people I know that have gradually migrated from large ICE SUVs to Tesla X-Type's show it is a trend that is vibrant and can only increase as technology and Infrastrucutre continues to improve.
The point that seems to be missed continuously is that this £87k super expensive overpriced car can be leased tax free by business owners or those with access to CC / salary sacrifice schemes.
The sums are simply not comparable to buying a £87k ICE car with your own money.
This car will have a net effective cost of ~£450 a month for a higher rate payer and will also save them a few hundred quid a month in fuel.
I am running a £76k P11d valued e-Tron as a company car and by offloading 15k/year miles and countless cold starts and local runs off my M5, it’s effectively free. Get a load of that for man maths
The sums are simply not comparable to buying a £87k ICE car with your own money.
This car will have a net effective cost of ~£450 a month for a higher rate payer and will also save them a few hundred quid a month in fuel.
I am running a £76k P11d valued e-Tron as a company car and by offloading 15k/year miles and countless cold starts and local runs off my M5, it’s effectively free. Get a load of that for man maths
theboss said:
The point that seems to be missed continuously is that this £87k super expensive overpriced car can be leased tax free by business owners or those with access to CC / salary sacrifice schemes.
The sums are simply not comparable to buying a £87k ICE car with your own money.
This car will have a net effective cost of ~£450 a month for a higher rate payer and will also save them a few hundred quid a month in fuel.
I am running a £76k P11d valued e-Tron as a company car and by offloading 15k/year miles and countless cold starts and local runs off my M5, it’s effectively free. Get a load of that for man maths
In time this is great if acquisition of car costs fall and indeed great for directors etc.... doubt many companies will stump up a lease for a £85k- £100k + car to help fleet car employees with tax.The sums are simply not comparable to buying a £87k ICE car with your own money.
This car will have a net effective cost of ~£450 a month for a higher rate payer and will also save them a few hundred quid a month in fuel.
I am running a £76k P11d valued e-Tron as a company car and by offloading 15k/year miles and countless cold starts and local runs off my M5, it’s effectively free. Get a load of that for man maths
whp1983 said:
In time this is great if acquisition of car costs fall and indeed great for directors etc.... doubt many companies will stump up a lease for a £85k- £100k + car to help fleet car employees with tax.
Those that are currently 'stumping up' leases on £50k+ cars might though, especially those seeking to attract employees....and remembering that businesses benefit from EV taxation too.Ares said:
Those that are currently 'stumping up' leases on £50k+ cars might though, especially those seeking to attract employees....and remembering that businesses benefit from EV taxation too.
Agreed, but off top of my head only Tesla model 3 sits at that price.... And that won’t suit a lot of people. Just time I guess to get more attractive stuff to market.Ares said:
DonkeyApple said:
Pablo16v said:
On the other side of the range argument I can't actually recall the last time I had to drive further than the 75 miles between our home and the holiday home we visit in Aviemore, which we do a few times per year, and which this e-tron would handle perfectly well. The rest of the time it's 30-40 mile round trips to visit family or popping into Aberdeen shopping, or 30 mile round trips commuting, so the 200-odd mile range is more than adequate. If I did need to travel more than 200 miles in one go, and there was little time for charging, then I'd take my wife's diesel A6 but in the past 12 months I can think of only one journey where I'd need to do that.
Agreed but it’s still £100k+ to put yourself in a box with a type of car that is supposed to free you from constraints. To really get the most out of an EV, at present, you either need a potterer for local duties which I think they work brilliantly for, albeit at prices that aren’t really that sensible at present or quite high annual mileages to get the benefit of electric running over diesel or petrol. Conversely, I think this has the ability of a local potterer packaged into the body and weight of a mile muncher.
I've NEVER driven 250 miles without a 15-30min stop. No would really ever should. I drive 227 miles to Edinburgh every month or so. We always stop at Gretna Services for a pee, coffee and stretch the dog's legs. Always over 20mins, often well over 30. So with this, you park on the 'leccy spaces and grab a 70-100mile of range.
Zero impact.
I will also not have had to take 15mins out to top the tank up of my ICE the night before setting off.
When we get to hotel, the car would be plugged in and miraculously be 'full tank' by the following day. The 50-100 miles we generally do whilst there would be easy and FOC, as with some places would the parking. Each night the car would be 'full tank' ready for when we come to depart...again saving me a 20min trip to brim the tank with SUL.
Even taking the cost issues away, the is no reason why this EV would be any less suitable than either the same car with a ICE, or indeed any other car....with the possible exception of a genuine 600mile range diesel.
Adding cost issues back in, especially taxation, it could be a complexing argument for a lot of people.
The number of people I know that have gradually migrated from large ICE SUVs to Tesla X-Type's show it is a trend that is vibrant and can only increase as technology and Infrastrucutre continues to improve.
It has local runabout range packed into a mile muncher body. It does miss the point somewhat and EVs are enough of a niche without the product putting itself into a smaller niche.
whp1983 said:
In time this is great if acquisition of car costs fall and indeed great for directors etc.... doubt many companies will stump up a lease for a £85k- £100k + car to help fleet car employees with tax.
They may well do if employees are happy to sacrifice the additional salary given the BIK saving by taking an EV.The employer also stands to save employers NIC.
theboss said:
whp1983 said:
In time this is great if acquisition of car costs fall and indeed great for directors etc.... doubt many companies will stump up a lease for a £85k- £100k + car to help fleet car employees with tax.
They may well do if employees are happy to sacrifice the additional salary given the BIK saving by taking an EV.The employer also stands to save employers NIC.
DonkeyApple said:
Arguably its a product for the Chinese market more than the UK one. The BIK rules will make it viable for some here but it’s very compromised at a price level where in the UK we have no need to make such compromises.
The e-Tron is very popular in Skandi and NL at the moment and there are also a lot of US owners in the forums. It seems to be selling as fast as they can make them, within a wide range of markets.I know nothing about EV uptake /demand in China, but they don’t exactly seem to have much of a green agenda.
theboss said:
The e-Tron is very popular in Skandi and NL at the moment and there are also a lot of US owners in the forums. It seems to be selling as fast as they can make them, within a wide range of markets.
I know nothing about EV uptake /demand in China, but they don’t exactly seem to have much of a green agenda.
It’s not really about the environment in China but about how they see EVs as their keystone to exporting cars. It’s a massive state sponsored program that’s been running already for over twenty years that has seen the key raw materials secured on the one hand and then a false market created domestically using massive subsidies to encourage firms to start up andnon the consumer side massive restrictions on petrol and diesel while permitting EVs. The purpose of which is to super charge the fastest possible growth in EV manufacturing from as many companies so as to end up with a handful of massive winners capable of churning out products to a Western standard and this export and dominate in this segment. I know nothing about EV uptake /demand in China, but they don’t exactly seem to have much of a green agenda.
Any of us who have to travel to China on business know all too well that there is nothing remotely ‘green’ about anything there. It’s pure business. Business at any cost.
DonkeyApple said:
It’s not really about the environment in China but about how they see EVs as their keystone to exporting cars. It’s a massive state sponsored program that’s been running already for over twenty years that has seen the key raw materials secured on the one hand and then a false market created domestically using massive subsidies to encourage firms to start up andnon the consumer side massive restrictions on petrol and diesel while permitting EVs. The purpose of which is to super charge the fastest possible growth in EV manufacturing from as many companies so as to end up with a handful of massive winners capable of churning out products to a Western standard and this export and dominate in this segment.
Any of us who have to travel to China on business know all too well that there is nothing remotely ‘green’ about anything there. It’s pure business. Business at any cost.
Interesting and insightful - thanks.Any of us who have to travel to China on business know all too well that there is nothing remotely ‘green’ about anything there. It’s pure business. Business at any cost.
DonkeyApple said:
It’s not really about the environment in China but about how they see EVs as their keystone to exporting cars. It’s a massive state sponsored program that’s been running already for over twenty years that has seen the key raw materials secured on the one hand and then a false market created domestically using massive subsidies to encourage firms to start up andnon the consumer side massive restrictions on petrol and diesel while permitting EVs. The purpose of which is to super charge the fastest possible growth in EV manufacturing from as many companies so as to end up with a handful of massive winners capable of churning out products to a Western standard and this export and dominate in this segment.
Any of us who have to travel to China on business know all too well that there is nothing remotely ‘green’ about anything there. It’s pure business. Business at any cost.
Yep. You could have written the same thing about the solar industry. It's all about gaining a dominant global position in a growth industry; they couldn't give a flying fvck about the environment.Any of us who have to travel to China on business know all too well that there is nothing remotely ‘green’ about anything there. It’s pure business. Business at any cost.
Ares said:
DonkeyApple said:
Pablo16v said:
On the other side of the range argument I can't actually recall the last time I had to drive further than the 75 miles between our home and the holiday home we visit in Aviemore, which we do a few times per year, and which this e-tron would handle perfectly well. The rest of the time it's 30-40 mile round trips to visit family or popping into Aberdeen shopping, or 30 mile round trips commuting, so the 200-odd mile range is more than adequate. If I did need to travel more than 200 miles in one go, and there was little time for charging, then I'd take my wife's diesel A6 but in the past 12 months I can think of only one journey where I'd need to do that.
Agreed but it’s still £100k+ to put yourself in a box with a type of car that is supposed to free you from constraints. To really get the most out of an EV, at present, you either need a potterer for local duties which I think they work brilliantly for, albeit at prices that aren’t really that sensible at present or quite high annual mileages to get the benefit of electric running over diesel or petrol. Conversely, I think this has the ability of a local potterer packaged into the body and weight of a mile muncher.
I've NEVER driven 250 miles without a 15-30min stop. No would really ever should. I drive 227 miles to Edinburgh every month or so. We always stop at Gretna Services for a pee, coffee and stretch the dog's legs. Always over 20mins, often well over 30. So with this, you park on the 'leccy spaces and grab a 70-100mile of range.
Zero impact.
I will also not have had to take 15mins out to top the tank up of my ICE the night before setting off.
When we get to hotel, the car would be plugged in and miraculously be 'full tank' by the following day. The 50-100 miles we generally do whilst there would be easy and FOC, as with some places would the parking. Each night the car would be 'full tank' ready for when we come to depart...again saving me a 20min trip to brim the tank with SUL.
Even taking the cost issues away, the is no reason why this EV would be any less suitable than either the same car with a ICE, or indeed any other car....with the possible exception of a genuine 600mile range diesel.
Adding cost issues back in, especially taxation, it could be a complexing argument for a lot of people.
The number of people I know that have gradually migrated from large ICE SUVs to Tesla X-Type's show it is a trend that is vibrant and can only increase as technology and Infrastrucutre continues to improve.
I regularly (and have done for years) do Malaga to Calais in one hit with around 4 stops of 15 mins max. Traffic dependant its always under 20 hours, an EV in this case would be useless..
whp1983 said:
Ares said:
Those that are currently 'stumping up' leases on £50k+ cars might though, especially those seeking to attract employees....and remembering that businesses benefit from EV taxation too.
Agreed, but off top of my head only Tesla model 3 sits at that price.... And that won’t suit a lot of people. Just time I guess to get more attractive stuff to market.DonkeyApple said:
Ares said:
DonkeyApple said:
Pablo16v said:
On the other side of the range argument I can't actually recall the last time I had to drive further than the 75 miles between our home and the holiday home we visit in Aviemore, which we do a few times per year, and which this e-tron would handle perfectly well. The rest of the time it's 30-40 mile round trips to visit family or popping into Aberdeen shopping, or 30 mile round trips commuting, so the 200-odd mile range is more than adequate. If I did need to travel more than 200 miles in one go, and there was little time for charging, then I'd take my wife's diesel A6 but in the past 12 months I can think of only one journey where I'd need to do that.
Agreed but it’s still £100k+ to put yourself in a box with a type of car that is supposed to free you from constraints. To really get the most out of an EV, at present, you either need a potterer for local duties which I think they work brilliantly for, albeit at prices that aren’t really that sensible at present or quite high annual mileages to get the benefit of electric running over diesel or petrol. Conversely, I think this has the ability of a local potterer packaged into the body and weight of a mile muncher.
I've NEVER driven 250 miles without a 15-30min stop. No would really ever should. I drive 227 miles to Edinburgh every month or so. We always stop at Gretna Services for a pee, coffee and stretch the dog's legs. Always over 20mins, often well over 30. So with this, you park on the 'leccy spaces and grab a 70-100mile of range.
Zero impact.
I will also not have had to take 15mins out to top the tank up of my ICE the night before setting off.
When we get to hotel, the car would be plugged in and miraculously be 'full tank' by the following day. The 50-100 miles we generally do whilst there would be easy and FOC, as with some places would the parking. Each night the car would be 'full tank' ready for when we come to depart...again saving me a 20min trip to brim the tank with SUL.
Even taking the cost issues away, the is no reason why this EV would be any less suitable than either the same car with a ICE, or indeed any other car....with the possible exception of a genuine 600mile range diesel.
Adding cost issues back in, especially taxation, it could be a complexing argument for a lot of people.
The number of people I know that have gradually migrated from large ICE SUVs to Tesla X-Type's show it is a trend that is vibrant and can only increase as technology and Infrastrucutre continues to improve.
It has local runabout range packed into a mile muncher body. It does miss the point somewhat and EVs are enough of a niche without the product putting itself into a smaller niche.
You would not need to look for chargers on a basic run, only on 200 mile+ trip that you would stop on anyway...and it brings a different form of convenience to those journeys.
A1VDY said:
Many do much greater distance than 227 miles with half hr stops. Using an EV for holiday use is totally different than day today when time constraints are taken into consideration.
I regularly (and have done for years) do Malaga to Calais in one hit with around 4 stops of 15 mins max. Traffic dependant its always under 20 hours, an EV in this case would be useless..
So for the miniscule number of people that need to drive 1200 miles, non-stop, with just four 15min breaks, and EV isn't going to work. (but I'd argue such a drive is close to dangerous for a driver, even 2 drivers.)I regularly (and have done for years) do Malaga to Calais in one hit with around 4 stops of 15 mins max. Traffic dependant its always under 20 hours, an EV in this case would be useless..
For the remaining 99.999999999% of car drivers, it is more viable than flat-earthers try to believe.
Ares said:
You are missing the point if you think this is a big performance car. It's a warm EV SUV.
You would not need to look for chargers on a basic run, only on 200 mile+ trip that you would stop on anyway...and it brings a different form of convenience to those journeys.
I guess if you have a very parochial lifestyle and fill your own cars up etc. But regardless of how you try and spin it it is a niche product. It has inconveniences that few are interested in. You would not need to look for chargers on a basic run, only on 200 mile+ trip that you would stop on anyway...and it brings a different form of convenience to those journeys.
DonkeyApple said:
Ares said:
You are missing the point if you think this is a big performance car. It's a warm EV SUV.
You would not need to look for chargers on a basic run, only on 200 mile+ trip that you would stop on anyway...and it brings a different form of convenience to those journeys.
I guess if you have a very parochial lifestyle and fill your own cars up etc. But regardless of how you try and spin it it is a niche product. It has inconveniences that few are interested in. You would not need to look for chargers on a basic run, only on 200 mile+ trip that you would stop on anyway...and it brings a different form of convenience to those journeys.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff