High grip or lower grip tyres for road use?
Discussion
Honeywell said:
I'm often impressed by the GT86 brakes. Once warm they have amazing stopping power I find (on PS4 rubber). The size and specification of them is rather hum drum but some combination of the low weight and ultra low centre of gravity makes them feel tremendous. More so than any other cars I've owned of considerably higher performance.
Plus a conventional handbrake lever means you can handbrake turn in the car park when nobody's about and you can't do that in in any new Ferrari!
I also thought that the brakes on the Mini wouldn't be too bad because the car only weighs around 1160kg. But they are very weedy to look at and use(for me anyway). Strangely I read a recent review on the Cooper S in EVO magazine(online), and they didn't have any complaints about the brakes which surprised me somewhat. Plus a conventional handbrake lever means you can handbrake turn in the car park when nobody's about and you can't do that in in any new Ferrari!
I really like the conventional handbrake lever in the Mini as well, and that is quite old school to be fair now.
ATM said:
Depends on the Porsche. You might be more interested in the feel from the pedal than the performance of the system or its ability to actually stop the car.
Yes and there could be a bit of that to be fair. I remember the TTS being quite heavily servoed, and it gave you the impression that it had really good brakes. The 370Z feels like it has really strong brakes too(it needs them when you consider its weight though). I loved the AP Racing brakes on the Cerbera though, and they scrubbed high speed off with ease(helped by the fact that the car wasn't especially heavy though). cerb4.5lee said:
Yes and there could be a bit of that to be fair. I remember the TTS being quite heavily servoed, and it gave you the impression that it had really good brakes. The 370Z feels like it has really strong brakes too(it needs them when you consider its weight though). I loved the AP Racing brakes on the Cerbera though, and they scrubbed high speed off with ease(helped by the fact that the car wasn't especially heavy though).
did the Cerb have a brake servo?i deplore vag brakes. spirited driving requires brake modulation. best is lightweight and no servo, but if you are to have one please let it be calibrated properly.
CABC said:
did the Cerb have a brake servo?
i deplore vag brakes. spirited driving requires brake modulation. best is lightweight and no servo, but if you are to have one please let it be calibrated properly.
Yes the Cerb did have one. Like you mention I've also read that many don't like vag(Porsche seem to get a lot of praise though) brakes very much. i deplore vag brakes. spirited driving requires brake modulation. best is lightweight and no servo, but if you are to have one please let it be calibrated properly.
cerb4.5lee said:
Tyres are important I agree, but I find that having really good brakes are more important. I never had any confidence under braking in my E92 M3 and I don't have any either in my Mini Cooper S.
If I swapped the Primacy to PS4 on the Mini I think that it would give me more overall grip/less wheelspin, but I'd still be left with the problem of poor brakes though sadly.
It is surprising how many cars I've actually had with decent brakes, and off the top of my head I'd only say that 3 cars that I've had-had decent stoppers as standard(Cerbera/TTS/370Z were/are the only ones that I rated as having decent brakes).
I need a Porsche I reckon, and their brakes come really highly regarded from what I read.
The world is arguably a little different today but when I was younger it was pointed out to me by a family friend, who I believe still holds the record for the highest number of professional race wins in the UK, that the cheapest and best upgrade to do to a car to make it faster was to improve the brakes. If I swapped the Primacy to PS4 on the Mini I think that it would give me more overall grip/less wheelspin, but I'd still be left with the problem of poor brakes though sadly.
It is surprising how many cars I've actually had with decent brakes, and off the top of my head I'd only say that 3 cars that I've had-had decent stoppers as standard(Cerbera/TTS/370Z were/are the only ones that I rated as having decent brakes).
I need a Porsche I reckon, and their brakes come really highly regarded from what I read.
cerb4.5lee said:
CABC said:
did the Cerb have a brake servo?
i deplore vag brakes. spirited driving requires brake modulation. best is lightweight and no servo, but if you are to have one please let it be calibrated properly.
Yes the Cerb did have one. Like you mention I've also read that many don't like vag(Porsche seem to get a lot of praise though) brakes very much. i deplore vag brakes. spirited driving requires brake modulation. best is lightweight and no servo, but if you are to have one please let it be calibrated properly.
Honeywell said:
I'm often impressed by the GT86 brakes. Once warm they have amazing stopping power I find (on PS4 rubber). The size and specification of them is rather hum drum but some combination of the low weight and ultra low centre of gravity makes them feel tremendous. More so than any other cars I've owned of considerably higher performance.
Plus a conventional handbrake lever means you can handbrake turn in the car park when nobody's about and you can't do that in in any new Ferrari!
Think my smart Roadster stopped the best out of the cars I've owned. Although you could still cook the brakes on it. A little wooden feeling through the pedal, but you got used to it.Plus a conventional handbrake lever means you can handbrake turn in the car park when nobody's about and you can't do that in in any new Ferrari!
Had a '20 Ignis as a curtesy car this last week. Was surprised how poor the brakes were on it. Came flying down one of my local routes, went to stand the car on end, as you do....
and it just didn't want to slow down. Was quite shocked at how little it wanted to shed the speed.Even more surprising, it wouldn't or couldn't lock the rear wheels to perform a handbrake turn.
DonkeyApple said:
The world is arguably a little different today but when I was younger it was pointed out to me by a family friend, who I believe still holds the record for the highest number of professional race wins in the UK, that the cheapest and best upgrade to do to a car to make it faster was to improve the brakes.
I would agree, especially on a race track, but I think in some road cars and some road driving, you don't actually use the brakes all that much. But then I was taught to use engine braking a lot more than people are today. There are no podiums when driving on the road, so you don't need to always heavily brake at the very last tenth of a second. Getting the speed right for the corner before you enter it, can result in rapid progress and generally a lot smoother too.300bhp/ton said:
DonkeyApple said:
The world is arguably a little different today but when I was younger it was pointed out to me by a family friend, who I believe still holds the record for the highest number of professional race wins in the UK, that the cheapest and best upgrade to do to a car to make it faster was to improve the brakes.
I would agree, especially on a race track, but I think in some road cars and some road driving, you don't actually use the brakes all that much. But then I was taught to use engine braking a lot more than people are today. There are no podiums when driving on the road, so you don't need to always heavily brake at the very last tenth of a second. Getting the speed right for the corner before you enter it, can result in rapid progress and generally a lot smoother too.I’ve watched many a TVR driver spear their car off before a corner because they were only braking with the back wheels.
ATM said:
I've got a 2012 Porsche 981 and the brake pedal is a bit squishy. I also have a 1998 Porsche 996 and the brake pedal on that is rock hard. Its so hard that with spirited driving you can get a sore foot. They are very different. Both stop very well but they feel totally different.
as long as they both had feel (sure they do) then it would be a pleasure to own both for the contrast. i like feeling differences between cars. nice pair 
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. The same chap pointed out that the engine was for moving the car forward and the brakes were for taking speed off. He was quite expressive on not using the engine for braking as you were obviously only applying braking to two wheels. FWD is going to be more forgiving.
I’ve watched many a TVR driver spear their car off before a corner because they were only braking with the back wheels.
Guess they wouldn't be much cop as at driving old trucks or tractors with heavy loads then I’ve watched many a TVR driver spear their car off before a corner because they were only braking with the back wheels.
Engine braking serves a good purpose outside of the race track. And in a lot of different types of machinery.
Watch how little the brake lights come on...
https://youtu.be/tl8UY6GuLe8?t=113
300bhp/ton said:
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. The same chap pointed out that the engine was for moving the car forward and the brakes were for taking speed off. He was quite expressive on not using the engine for braking as you were obviously only applying braking to two wheels. FWD is going to be more forgiving.
I’ve watched many a TVR driver spear their car off before a corner because they were only braking with the back wheels.
Guess they wouldn't be much cop as at driving old trucks or tractors with heavy loads then I’ve watched many a TVR driver spear their car off before a corner because they were only braking with the back wheels.
Engine braking serves a good purpose outside of the race track. And in a lot of different types of machinery.
Watch how little the brake lights come on...
https://youtu.be/tl8UY6GuLe8?t=113
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