Is torque really relevant?
Discussion
Equus said:
otolith said:
That's why diesels belong in barges and not sports cars.
Nobody is suggesting otherwise.The OP was asking in reference to a 5-series BMW or Audi A4.
HTH
otolith said:
You brought Elise short ratio gearboxes into it as an explanation of the deficiencies as you see them of (small capacity 1990's) petrol engines versus modern turbodiesels
Because they are relevant to the deficiencies of petrol engines (particularly smaller capacity, sensibly efficient ones) when fitted to large saloon cars.I appreciate that there is a small gang of people here on PistonHeads who see themselves as 'purists' whose job is to hate on diesels at every opportunity, but the truth is that in cars intended to provide fast, efficient and relaxed transport on high mileage journeys (and it is this type of car the OP was asking about), they have a lot going for them.
Equus said:
Because they are relevant to the deficiencies of petrol engines (particularly smaller capacity, sensibly efficient ones) when fitted to large saloon cars.
I appreciate that there is a small gang of people here on PistonHeads who see themselves as 'purists' whose job is to hate on diesels at every opportunity, but the truth is that in cars intended to provide fast, efficient and relaxed transport on high mileage journeys (and it is this type of car the OP was asking about), they have a lot going for them.
Your whole argument falls apart here.I appreciate that there is a small gang of people here on PistonHeads who see themselves as 'purists' whose job is to hate on diesels at every opportunity, but the truth is that in cars intended to provide fast, efficient and relaxed transport on high mileage journeys (and it is this type of car the OP was asking about), they have a lot going for them.
A CR box is not due to 'deficiencies' it's a deliberate ploy to keep them at peak power, much like the modern FI diesel engine with 8 and 9 speed auto's. O course you can also use FI with petrol, the most wonderful 135/40 and newer M4 engines are both frugal for the performance and don't feel turbocharged. They also sound like nice, and rev freely over a decent range.
Nobody is 'hating on' (smirk) diesels, just pointing out where they fit. But you strike me as the sort of chap who would pick a fight alone in a lift?
Equus said:
You did about as good a job of 'blocking' me as you've done of convincing us you're not a complete Walt, then?
Have you remembered what you drive, yet?
Better left open, reminds of how not to behave. And yes, thanks. Not a mundane diesel SUV.Have you remembered what you drive, yet?
Do you actually understand dyno plots?
ddom said:
A CR box is not due to 'deficiencies' it's a deliberate ploy to keep them at peak power, much like the modern FI diesel engine with 8 and 9 speed auto's.
OK, since you actually seem to be expecting us to take you seriously:The deficiency is that the power band is narrow enough to need to be kept at peak power.
And the 8-9 speed autos on modern large capacity cars (not just diesel - in fact IIRC the first 9-speed auto was the Lexus, for their petrol V8) are about maintaining peak economy, not peak power.
Yes, I understand dyno plots very well indeed, thankyou - whilst it's clear that you can add them to gearboxes and the long list of other things you're completely f
king clueless about.Equus said:
OK, since you actually seem to be expecting us to take you seriously:
The deficiency is that the power band is narrow enough to need to be kept at peak power.
And the 8-9 speed autos on modern large capacity cars (not just diesel - in fact IIRC the first 9-speed auto was the Lexus, for their petrol V8) are about maintaining peak economy, not peak power.
Yes, I understand dyno plots very well indeed, thankyou - whilst it's clear that you can add them to gearboxes and the long list of other things you're completely fking clueless about.
Do stop speaking for a group, it makes you look even more like an ass than you are.The deficiency is that the power band is narrow enough to need to be kept at peak power.
And the 8-9 speed autos on modern large capacity cars (not just diesel - in fact IIRC the first 9-speed auto was the Lexus, for their petrol V8) are about maintaining peak economy, not peak power.
Yes, I understand dyno plots very well indeed, thankyou - whilst it's clear that you can add them to gearboxes and the long list of other things you're completely f
king clueless about.You are obviously in need of help, the reason the ZF is so good on a diesel it it keeps a relatively narrow powerband on the boil, I wonder where that's been employed before.....
There's a reason you have two ears and one mouth. Do try and keep up. Look at the dyno graph, that's if you can actually understand one.
ddom said:
Do stop speaking for a group, it makes you look even more like an ass than you are.
Oh, come now, ddom... you surely can't be claiming not to have noticed the others who are questioning your authenticity and presence on this forum?PistonHeads has a long and distinguished history of exposing Walts and frauds, so it's only a matter of time, you know?
Have you ever actually driven a car with the ZF8? I've owned two, and like many of your other contributions so far, your comments smack of being something you heard someone else say, but failed to properly understand.
The ZF8 and the cars it is commonly fitted to are about as far removed from an intent to 'keep a relatively narrow powerband on the boil' as it's possible to get!
Equus said:
PistonHeads has a long and distinguished history of exposing Walts and frauds, so it's only a matter of time, you know
Yeah, like the time Keith Flint joined and nobody believed he was who he was, or the countless times I’ve been told I’m not who I am doing what I do. I’ve had people invent crazy stories about me and then insist they’re true on zero evidence. This is a weird place, and not a place where truth always prevails, like any modern social media to be honest.RobM77 said:
Yeah, like the time Keith Flint joined and nobody believed he was who he was, or the countless times I’ve been told I’m not who I am doing what I do. I’ve had people invent crazy stories about me and then insist they’re true on zero evidence. This is a weird place, and not a place where truth always prevails, like any modern social media to be honest.
Equus is just a classic internet bully. Likely harmless in real life though 
RobM77 said:
... countless times I’ve been told I’m not who I am doing what I do.
In fairness, you're not the one who's trying to convince us that the current premier gearbox for luxobarges and SUV's is really all about keeping peaky engines on the boil, though, are you?I mean... WTAF?!
I can only suggest that you review some of ddom's other contributions - they're little short of bizarrely vague and non-specific, to the degree that one can only conclude that he really has no experience or understanding of the subjects he is posting about.
Equus said:
In fairness, you're not the one who's trying to convince us that the current premier gearbox for luxobarges and SUV's is really all about keeping peaky engines on the boil, though, are you?
I mean... WTAF?!
I can only suggest that you review some of ddom's other contributions - they're little short of bizarrely vague and non-specific, to the degree that one can only conclude that he really has no experience of the subjects he is posting about.
Feel free to post examples?I mean... WTAF?!
I can only suggest that you review some of ddom's other contributions - they're little short of bizarrely vague and non-specific, to the degree that one can only conclude that he really has no experience of the subjects he is posting about.
I already get you don't understand that much, and are an aggressive last word type who chooses to drive a very ordinary car, yet speaks as an authority on most things. I think you're a dreamer. The fact you are annoyed because I won't list the cars I own is obviously getting to you. Perhaps you should take a little break and stop being so personal?
ddom said:
Perhaps you should take a little break and stop being so personal?
Perhaps you should take your own advice?Or is it that you posting history (the sudden high volume of posts, despite being 'new' to the forum) indicate that you've been forcibly required to take a little break in the past?
You're awfully full of yourself, for a 'newbie'?
Equus said:
RobM77 said:
... countless times I’ve been told I’m not who I am doing what I do.
In fairness, you're not the one who's trying to convince us that the current premier gearbox for luxobarges and SUV's is really all about keeping peaky engines on the boil, though, are you?I mean... WTAF?!
I can only suggest that you review some of ddom's other contributions - they're little short of bizarrely vague and non-specific, to the degree that one can only conclude that he really has no experience or understanding of the subjects he is posting about.
There are also lots of persistent trolls on here who never get the ban they deserve - I called one out politely as a troll recently and got my post deleted!! His posts remained! So yeah, sorry, you just touched a nerve
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