RE: Ineos Grenadier may be built in France
Discussion
Condi said:
He says why himself....
Only a suicidal businessman would build something in the UK which required access to EU parts suppliers now.
Yes we were duped from the start !Jim said:
In a statement, Ineos Automotive said: "The site's location on the French-German border, only 200km from Stuttgart, gives excellent access to supply chains, automotive talent and target markets."
And you can read between the lines that those benefits are going to be there come what may with regards to Brexit. Only a suicidal businessman would build something in the UK which required access to EU parts suppliers now.
It was nothing more than a German kit car
Shame he could have had GKN driveline a caterpillar Perkins engine and Japanese electrics..
powerstroke said:
Yes we were duped from the start !
It was nothing more than a German kit car
Shame he could have had GKN driveline a caterpillar Perkins engine and Japanese electrics..
That's the interesting aspect facing many businesses going forward. For twenty years it has made sense to import components from within the EU and funnel absolutely everything through a little tunnel or inside passenger planes. From 2021 it is likely to make more sense to import alternatives from Asia and North America. It was nothing more than a German kit car
Shame he could have had GKN driveline a caterpillar Perkins engine and Japanese electrics..
Beyond financial services we don't actually export much in the way of finished products to the European mainland as a percentage of our global trade but we have taken enormous advantage of the ease of importing quality components and finished products from the mainland over the last few decades.
The real problem we now face is that France can switch off that goods supply whenever it likes for as long as it likes. They can close the Chunnel at the drop of the hat using numerous methods to create gridlock. What is going to be vital over the coming decade is to wean ourselves off the need for the Chunnel and to bring in goods and components via our myriad ports that face other continents. At the same time we will need to revert to more things being home grown again.
Ineos actually had no need to source a significant number of components from Europe for such a simple vehicle. And that does make it all the more strange that he in particular, designed a product from the start to use European components.
DonkeyApple said:
powerstroke said:
Yes we were duped from the start !
It was nothing more than a German kit car
Shame he could have had GKN driveline a caterpillar Perkins engine and Japanese electrics..
That's the interesting aspect facing many businesses going forward. For twenty years it has made sense to import components from within the EU and funnel absolutely everything through a little tunnel or inside passenger planes. From 2021 it is likely to make more sense to import alternatives from Asia and North America. It was nothing more than a German kit car
Shame he could have had GKN driveline a caterpillar Perkins engine and Japanese electrics..
Beyond financial services we don't actually export much in the way of finished products to the European mainland as a percentage of our global trade but we have taken enormous advantage of the ease of importing quality components and finished products from the mainland over the last few decades.
The real problem we now face is that France can switch off that goods supply whenever it likes for as long as it likes. They can close the Chunnel at the drop of the hat using numerous methods to create gridlock. What is going to be vital over the coming decade is to wean ourselves off the need for the Chunnel and to bring in goods and components via our myriad ports that face other continents. At the same time we will need to revert to more things being home grown again.
Ineos actually had no need to source a significant number of components from Europe for such a simple vehicle. And that does make it all the more strange that he in particular, designed a product from the start to use European components.
Good points
Maybe he didn’t think we would vote to leave
And in using euro components would be compliant to sell into the single market tariff free ?
powerstroke said:
Good points
Maybe he didn’t think we would vote to leave
And in using euro components would be compliant to sell into the single market tariff free ?
I'm not sure we will ever know. It's all a bit odd. From the outset he planned a product that used EU components and to deliver a product that was in the Remainer price bracket yet pitched the whole Brexit thing. Simultaneously, he runs one of the most polluting businesses in the West where the EU is most against him. Maybe he didn’t think we would vote to leave
And in using euro components would be compliant to sell into the single market tariff free ?
At the same time, we in the UK are seemingly fixated with the Germans who outside of living memory have always been our mainland allies and among our closest cultural partners and are ignoring the fact that our 1000 year+ nemesis is about to handed total control over what we import from the mainland.
DonkeyApple said:
Ineos actually had no need to source a significant number of components from Europe for such a simple vehicle. And that does make it all the more strange that he in particular, designed a product from the start to use European components.
But it is clear why he would do so - the parts are mass produced on the continent, and all are already designed/approved for EU use. Any specialist parts can be sourced for a large variety of suppliers. The Grenadier engines are from BMW, suspension from ZF and Eibach, no doubt some Bosch electronics in there too. Why would he build it somewhere he has to pay duty on the parts, and deal with complicated customs arrangements when he can build it a few hundred miles from the source of parts. Condi said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ineos actually had no need to source a significant number of components from Europe for such a simple vehicle. And that does make it all the more strange that he in particular, designed a product from the start to use European components.
But it is clear why he would do so - the parts are mass produced on the continent, and all are already designed/approved for EU use. Any specialist parts can be sourced for a large variety of suppliers. The Grenadier engines are from BMW, suspension from ZF and Eibach, no doubt some Bosch electronics in there too. Why would he build it somewhere he has to pay duty on the parts, and deal with complicated customs arrangements when he can build it a few hundred miles from the source of parts. It's just all a bit weird as this was set from the getgo to be a European product. Why was he banging on about all the British stuff and the whole Brexit thing.
DonkeyApple said:
It's just all a bit weird as this was set from the getgo to be a European product. Why was he banging on about all the British stuff and the whole Brexit thing.
Do we even have suppliers for such things here? We do, but not in the specification and scale of what Europe can offer. I can just see it, Cummins industrial engines, stupidly expensive and complicated hand built Riccardo racing transmissions and differentials, left over Rover switchgear found round the back of a shed in the Midlands, bodywork made by unemployed Airbus staff.
DonkeyApple said:
It's just all a bit weird as this was set from the getgo to be a European product. Why was he banging on about all the British stuff and the whole Brexit thing.
Because he could appeal to the 'patriot' market, pulling the rug from under JLR who had announced assembly of the Defender in Slovakia. Look back through other threads on this and the Defender to see certain posters getting in a tizz about JLRs decision to build abroad, saying they'd never buy one because it's built by Jonny Foreigner.It's all a marketing ploy - just like the original image of having a warm pint outside a Twickenham pub. Just need a bit of Elgar playing in the background.
He probably was pushing this angle in the UK (and in the hope of trousering some government cash), everywhere else it's just a vehicle.
Condi said:
DonkeyApple said:
It's just all a bit weird as this was set from the getgo to be a European product. Why was he banging on about all the British stuff and the whole Brexit thing.
Do we even have suppliers for such things here? We do, but not in the specification and scale of what Europe can offer. I can just see it, Cummins industrial engines, stupidly expensive and complicated hand built Riccardo racing transmissions and differentials, left over Rover switchgear found round the back of a shed in the Midlands, bodywork made by unemployed Airbus staff.
I don't disagree with his logic of choosing to use European components or to assemble the vehicle in Europe. It all makes sense. It's just the complete oddity of the man who planned a European vehicle from the outset while telling anyone who would listen that Europe was bad.
DonkeyApple said:
It's just all a bit weird as this was set from the getgo to be a European product. Why was he banging on about all the British stuff and the whole Brexit thing.
Ideology, left or right, rarely makes logical sense I guess. It's driven by emotion isn't it? It's even possible he doesn't give a damn one way or the other on Brexit in relation to this car specifically, he just saw the opportunity to drum up some populist support for his car project. DonkeyApple said:
....as such he seems to be arguing that the bulk of his final sales will be within the EU (which may be his plan. Selling to NGOs etc) but given the timings of his venture it never seemed logical to build the product around EU components in the first instance.
Why* would NGOs (or anyone else for that matter...) go for an expensive, unsupported, unknown over Toyota etc?None of it makes sense.
*Unless brown envelopes/underage hookers are involved...
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