RE: 2020 Polestar 2 | PH Review
Discussion
MC Bodge said:
browellm said:
I just linked you a report that's 9 years old.
Do you think that there's been a massive evaporation of garages? Better call Mulder and Scully.
I've not read the link, but a lot of homes have, sacrilegiously, had garages converted to rooms.Do you think that there's been a massive evaporation of garages? Better call Mulder and Scully.
My last house had a too small garage opening right onto the street. Useless for home charging.
jason61c said:
robemcdonald said:
So it’s; slower, has less range and crucially more expensive than the model 3.
It’s likely to have a much higher quality interior than the Tesla, but is that enough to justify is performance shortfalls and high price? (comparing it to the Model 3)
It’s difficult to see who this is really aimed at.
Did you read the review or do you own a Tesla?It’s likely to have a much higher quality interior than the Tesla, but is that enough to justify is performance shortfalls and high price? (comparing it to the Model 3)
It’s difficult to see who this is really aimed at.
It’s £8k cheaper than a model 3 performance
It’s got the same real range as the long range or within 10%
It’s better built
Much much much better quality
Looks better
You would easily feel the difference overtaking.
The range difference in the real world is much bigger as the NEDC test isn't fit for purpose. It's purpose was for taxation of ICE cars not rating range of EVs. So while it might represent an efficiently driven EV in suburban driving that isn't the sort of driving where you max the range of an EV.
The US EPA test has much more high speed driving on the Model 3 manages 322 Vs 275 for the Polestar.
The difference the superchargers and destination chargers make is basically an end to range anxiety. Hence the real range of a Model 3 is much higher.
Finally a Model 3 is paying a 10% import tariff at the moment. From next year the EU cars will be locally built in Germany and thus 10% cheaper or simply a much higher margin.
Expect also an EU interior, once that comes in what advantage does any legacy maker have?
As some others have pointed out, Polestar has had three years to pick over a Model 3 and yet they aren't beating it.
Konrod said:
This is it for me as well - motorway range needs to be ~250 miles and charging points need to be where I am going to so the charging happens whilst I am doing what I need to do, not wasting time at a service station. The concept of grouped chargers is flawed - petrol stations to refuel make sense due to to fuel being flammable liquid and the fact a fill takes about 2 minutes. When it takes 30 minutes with electric, and there is already a widespread distribution network, charging points should be distributed to where people want to go
One of the biggest drawbacks I think will be that once we get more electric cars there will be a lack of charging points as they will be hogged - for example, at a shopping centre someone parks up at a charging point, the charge takes 30 minutes but they are in the centre for two hours which is 90 minutes of time the charger could have been used by anyone else, but can't. perhaps 4 spaces per charge point and when a car hits 80% charge it ejects the plug, or sends the owner a text message when completed and if not disconnected in 15 minutes starts to take energy back out of the batteries.
There is still so much structural change that hasn't been considered yet.
Tesla superchargers also charge you for a idle fee, so pretty easy to motivate the consumers - just look at a 5p plastic bag One of the biggest drawbacks I think will be that once we get more electric cars there will be a lack of charging points as they will be hogged - for example, at a shopping centre someone parks up at a charging point, the charge takes 30 minutes but they are in the centre for two hours which is 90 minutes of time the charger could have been used by anyone else, but can't. perhaps 4 spaces per charge point and when a car hits 80% charge it ejects the plug, or sends the owner a text message when completed and if not disconnected in 15 minutes starts to take energy back out of the batteries.
There is still so much structural change that hasn't been considered yet.
jagfan2 said:
RemarkLima said:
We had an i3 and now a M3 LR - one thing I would say about the Model 3 is that the handling and steering feedback is absolutely bob on, I'm always really surprised by just how neatly it handles. Sure it'll never be a v8 monster, but then neither will a 318d or Nissan Micra.
I checked out about every EV as an alternative for replacing the i3 and basically nothing was available or ready to order (Polestar 2, VW iD3), poor range (Audi e-Tron) or a "fashionable" SUV with no boot space (Jag iPace).
The iPace has more boot space than the Model 3, and easier access , as does the P2 - note hatch volumes measure to window line not total volumeI checked out about every EV as an alternative for replacing the i3 and basically nothing was available or ready to order (Polestar 2, VW iD3), poor range (Audi e-Tron) or a "fashionable" SUV with no boot space (Jag iPace).
Saloon boot and awkward opening is one of my major issues in looking at Mod3, no easy way to throw a couple of kids bikes or my bike in the back, and no practical roof bar option either, and the Model Y is just horrible to look at.
Am really hoping they do a estate/shooting brake model in the future definitely got me interested, and the RWD P2 may be more affordable next year, if not the iD3 does look interesting too
The model 3 has a front boot you can throw a couple of soft bags into, a rear boot that is deep with a big well underneath.
We may have squeezed my son's bike into an i-Pace but two kids bikes I just couldn't see - my step dad has an i-Pace so I'll give a go
For the Model 3, we just got the tow hitch and have a 4 bike carrier from previous so can get all 4 bikes on when needed - not that often, but useful that we can.
ETA: The Jag with the spec with two bar and pano roof was significantly more than the Model 3 as well
Edited by RemarkLima on Friday 10th July 15:14
Talksteer said:
The Model 3 Dual Motor is substantially quicker given it hits 60 in 4.2 and has a considerably higher max speed and much better aerodynamics.
No, it's 4.5 and Tesla's figuers come from a rolling start.[i]
The difference the superchargers and destination chargers make is basically an end to range anxiety. Hence the real range of a Model 3 is much higher.
[/i]
Again some facts mixed with some hyperbole. Everyone has destination chargers. the conclusion that it's "an end to range anxiety" is your opinion. The LR has better range than the Polestar 2. Drawing any other inference from that is in the eye of the beholder.
[i]
Finally a Model 3 is paying a 10% import tariff at the moment. From next year the EU cars will be locally built in Germany and thus 10% cheaper or simply a much higher margin.
[/i]
This is certainly a new spin on the German car makers riding to the rescue line. Not sure if you've seen the news lately.
[i]
Expect also an EU interior, once that comes in what advantage does any legacy maker have?
[/i]
I'm willing to stake both my kidneys Tesla will not differentiate the interior for the EU.
[i]
As some others have pointed out, Polestar has had three years to pick over a Model 3 and yet they aren't beating it.
[/i]
There are several ways I'd consider the Polestar is ahead, but I'm prepared to accept not everyone would agree: Shutlines, Voice control that works properly; automatic wipers that work properly; Headlight tech; better ACC. The interior is so far ahead in my eyes, it's not even close but that's entirely subjective of course.
I'd still consider an M3 becaase the charging network is so compelling, but it would be plain fanboyism to accept both cars have significant weaknesses. Choice is good!
Sorry about the quoting fail. Can't work out this board software.
Edited by browellm on Friday 10th July 15:19
Edited by browellm on Friday 10th July 15:20
Edited by browellm on Friday 10th July 15:22
Talksteer said:
jason61c said:
robemcdonald said:
So it’s; slower, has less range and crucially more expensive than the model 3.
It’s likely to have a much higher quality interior than the Tesla, but is that enough to justify is performance shortfalls and high price? (comparing it to the Model 3)
It’s difficult to see who this is really aimed at.
Did you read the review or do you own a Tesla?It’s likely to have a much higher quality interior than the Tesla, but is that enough to justify is performance shortfalls and high price? (comparing it to the Model 3)
It’s difficult to see who this is really aimed at.
It’s £8k cheaper than a model 3 performance
It’s got the same real range as the long range or within 10%
It’s better built
Much much much better quality
Looks better
You would easily feel the difference overtaking.
The range difference in the real world is much bigger as the NEDC test isn't fit for purpose. It's purpose was for taxation of ICE cars not rating range of EVs. So while it might represent an efficiently driven EV in suburban driving that isn't the sort of driving where you max the range of an EV.
The US EPA test has much more high speed driving on the Model 3 manages 322 Vs 275 for the Polestar.
The difference the superchargers and destination chargers make is basically an end to range anxiety. Hence the real range of a Model 3 is much higher.
Finally a Model 3 is paying a 10% import tariff at the moment. From next year the EU cars will be locally built in Germany and thus 10% cheaper or simply a much higher margin.
Expect also an EU interior, once that comes in what advantage does any legacy maker have?
As some others have pointed out, Polestar has had three years to pick over a Model 3 and yet they aren't beating it.
Polestar, a brand new company to EV's have come straight out of the blocks that matches the very best from a company that's had cars on the roads for a few years now. While also understanding customers enough to beat it where needed(fit/finish/quality/looks). Thats not a bad first step. One that means Tesla will have to try and up their game.
then read all the polestar reviews, most are saying they'd have one over a model 3. thats the thing that hurts the fanboys the most.
The P2 is a pretty nice alternative, and build quality and interior to match the price tag. I could never buy a tesla m3 with that mega cheapo budget interior and general build quality, regardless of range. And I'm not even the most picky guy, with renaults on the drive way 
Don't forget to mention that the P2 have decent towing capacity, 1500kg i think, which is pretty unique. So it is a would be usable as a car for people with houses
The rear seat though is cramped, even for me, and I'm only 1.75m tall, clearly worse than i expected. Almost all cars with the battery in the floor have an awful rear seating position. Will be interesting to see how many they sell, it needs to be quite a few to offset the volvo for the CO2 target/punish tax.
Don't forget to mention that the P2 have decent towing capacity, 1500kg i think, which is pretty unique. So it is a would be usable as a car for people with houses
The rear seat though is cramped, even for me, and I'm only 1.75m tall, clearly worse than i expected. Almost all cars with the battery in the floor have an awful rear seating position. Will be interesting to see how many they sell, it needs to be quite a few to offset the volvo for the CO2 target/punish tax.
jason61c said:
Its 0.3 seconds quicker to 60. think about that. the Polestar actually has a very good drag Co-efficient, just because it doesn't look like a bar of soap like a tesla. I think its 0.27vs 0.23. Head to head on the road, i'd put 50p on there not being much in it at all. not one review has said its lacking in motive force. the fact you're quoting max speed is just a little silly. I've no idea why they've limited it. Or why currently they're not using the full capacity of the battery.
Polestar, a brand new company to EV's have come straight out of the blocks that matches the very best from a company that's had cars on the roads for a few years now. While also understanding customers enough to beat it where needed(fit/finish/quality/looks). Thats not a bad first step. One that means Tesla will have to try and up their game.
then read all the polestar reviews, most are saying they'd have one over a model 3. thats the thing that hurts the fanboys the most.
Most models will have some kind of feature their manufacturers will tell us makes it better than a competitor. Of course they will. That's the nature of it. So while some, lets say all, of the things you mention may be true, at the end of the day, the market will tell us what works best.Polestar, a brand new company to EV's have come straight out of the blocks that matches the very best from a company that's had cars on the roads for a few years now. While also understanding customers enough to beat it where needed(fit/finish/quality/looks). Thats not a bad first step. One that means Tesla will have to try and up their game.
then read all the polestar reviews, most are saying they'd have one over a model 3. thats the thing that hurts the fanboys the most.
For what it's worth, I think the range and recharging Tesla have, are pretty strong factors. No, I don't think they are the be all and end all; but these will sway buyers, and I would wager Tesla has enough critical mass, with Elon Musk's various other activities, to be able to capture a not-insignificant slice of its target market, even if we assume your points are all true. I believe they are VERY strong in Germany, going up against even domestic, ICE competitors, and selling well.
Man thats one ugly car and why do all electric cars have that drab sparse interior with that silly ipad screen to control heaters, stereo and just about everything.
They're just an accident waiting to happen, its' like operating a large phone while you're driving. Give me knobs and buttons anyday.
They're just an accident waiting to happen, its' like operating a large phone while you're driving. Give me knobs and buttons anyday.
Witchfinder said:
I'd be willing to bet the 0-60 isn't all that different between the P2 and M3 LR. Tesla quote 0-60 times with the US standard "one foot roll-out"
And it will be insignificant to the point of irrelevance anyway. They are both quick, in any real sense, for a road car. Most cars are half as quick. How many of you (or normal people in the real world) live your life a 1/4 mile at a time?
The range, charging and practicality are the real issues.
Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 10th July 16:35
big_rob_sydney said:
For what it's worth, I think the range and recharging Tesla have, are pretty strong factors. No, I don't think they are the be all and end all; but these will sway buyers, and I would wager Tesla has enough critical mass, with Elon Musk's various other activities, to be able to capture a not-insignificant slice of its target market, even if we assume your points are all true. I believe they are VERY strong in Germany, going up against even domestic, ICE competitors, and selling well.
I would agree with this. Harry's YouTube video about his experience with the iPace, and the sheer inconvenience caused by the poor public charging infrastructure in the UK would be enough to steer me towards a Tesla. It almost doesn't matter how good the product is if charging it 'on the road' is even close to as much of a pain in the backside that his piece suggested it is. You don't have to download apps, register and hand over personal information to fill a car up with petrol or diesel, so why should you have to do it when you buy electricity? Multiple times if you want to use different suppliers too.Edited by Limpet on Friday 10th July 16:42
MC Bodge said:
Witchfinder said:
I'd be willing to bet the 0-60 isn't all that different between the P2 and M3 LR. Tesla quote 0-60 times with the US standard "one foot roll-out"
How many of you (or normal people in the real world) live your life a 1/4 mile at a time?But you're right of course. What really matters is how it feels when you drive it, and how well it fits into your life. The Model 3 would never work for me with its boot.
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