RE: 2020 Polestar 2 | PH Review
Discussion
Volvo are in a perfect place at the moment to get a leg up over the competition. They have the quality and design advantage over Tesla and also they have nothing to lose in terms of ice where they are totally outclassed by the competition. If only they could marry the Tesla 3 long range powertrain with the v60 they would be unbeatable.
ducnick said:
If only they could marry the Tesla 3 long range powertrain with the v60 they would be unbeatable.
This is a perfectly good powertrain. Don't believe the hype about Tesla range. It's good, but the likes of the Kona have better efficiency.I think Volvo are going to smash it when they release this powertrain in the XC-40 later this year.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Errr power costs money and has other negative externalities. E.g. you now need 3 times as many wind turbines.With regards to recharging around 66% of UK homes have a garage or other off street parking.
Running a charger or even just an extension cable to them is pretty easy, I currently run my Tesla off an extension cable .
For cars parked on streets the electricity is about 18 inches away getting it too the cars is an organisational and permission issue not an economic or technical one.
Whether we like it or not, this is the future. To ignore it is folly, especially on false pretenses of Internal Combustion Engine's relative efficiency.
The fact that to date, all Fuel-Cell and BEV vehicles leave me cold, won't count for diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.
I intend to enjoy my dino-juice conveyance(s) until such times as the environmental, moral and financial headwind has made them untenable, then I'll get some high speed milk-float from one of the growing raft of manufacturers.
Such is the way.
The fact that to date, all Fuel-Cell and BEV vehicles leave me cold, won't count for diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.
I intend to enjoy my dino-juice conveyance(s) until such times as the environmental, moral and financial headwind has made them untenable, then I'll get some high speed milk-float from one of the growing raft of manufacturers.
Such is the way.
I think it looks ok.
Range, charging network and cost make it a tricky one to get on side with though.
Especially when Tesla exist and have the above points covered without much argument.
I've visited 3 public 'fast' charge points with my M3P and every time theyve either been full (because only 2 stalls) or there's been a faulty one. Tesla's supercharger network on the other hand... never had a problem. The car tells me if there are stalls out of order and/or full, so I know to avoid it in advance.
Until that kind of thing is sorted, it makes the choice of electric car very easy for those happy to spend 45k+
Range, charging network and cost make it a tricky one to get on side with though.
Especially when Tesla exist and have the above points covered without much argument.
I've visited 3 public 'fast' charge points with my M3P and every time theyve either been full (because only 2 stalls) or there's been a faulty one. Tesla's supercharger network on the other hand... never had a problem. The car tells me if there are stalls out of order and/or full, so I know to avoid it in advance.
Until that kind of thing is sorted, it makes the choice of electric car very easy for those happy to spend 45k+
Mikebentley said:
Here we go again the same old stuff. Tesla cars are the quickest and this makes them really good....every now and then it might. Nobody will be able to charge anything other than a Tesla as they are the only ones with a good network.....not really an issue as most people don’t go very far really and could charge at home. Most people don’t have a driveway or ability to charge at home......then catch the bus and stop poncing about in £50k cars. Tesla’s are ugly and low quality interiors....probably true but adopters are happy to put up with this reduction in interior quality because tax breaks and it’s a clever gadget.
If the mainstream manufacturers could sort out their public charging network in the same way OPEC used to work then they could offer business users the support they need.
I think other than Model X the Tesla range is hideous but it has provided an answer to the needs of many in business. Hopefully the new EVs under £30k will service the mass consumer similarly.
Old man shouts at the moon!
It’s Gin o clock.
Amen!If the mainstream manufacturers could sort out their public charging network in the same way OPEC used to work then they could offer business users the support they need.
I think other than Model X the Tesla range is hideous but it has provided an answer to the needs of many in business. Hopefully the new EVs under £30k will service the mass consumer similarly.
Old man shouts at the moon!
It’s Gin o clock.
drpep said:
The fact that to date, all Fuel-Cell and BEV vehicles leave me cold, won't count for diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.
How many have you driven?The first time I drove an EV (it was a Tesla Model S) I was immediately convinced it was a superior method of propulsion. The smoothness, the torque, the instant response. I got back into my A7 and it just felt old, tired, noisy, and clunky. It was the BiTDI too, so hardly a slouch.
Electric really is just better, and will only continue to get better.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly, no matter how green it is, electricity is NOT cheap and is going to get a lot more expensive in the near future. Hydrogen is a joke, if you buy it today, it's obtained from gas, so all you are doing is giving the oil industry another outlet for hydrocarbon fuels.
As for this Volvo, good first effort, however, it's HEAVY, really heavy, and appears to have a pretty poor aero drag (born out by poor motorway efficiency).
To be fair, I'm not sure it's the Tesla Model 3 it should be compared with, it seems to me it's more aimed at the Jaguar in terms of look/size/etc. but with the sum £50K price tag, and compared to that, it makes a lot more sence.
Lastly, the new Tesla Model Y will be the real threat to this market, far more than their 3 is.
RobDickinson said:
Electricity is pretty much everywhere, thinking the last meter or two is a problem is plain stupid when there's already solutions in place that just need rolling out.
Rolling out - like extension leads? I don't think that having a cable out in the street, or even on your driveway, is a viable option.selym said:
RobDickinson said:
Electricity is pretty much everywhere, thinking the last meter or two is a problem is plain stupid when there's already solutions in place that just need rolling out.
Rolling out - like extension leads? I don't think that having a cable out in the street, or even on your driveway, is a viable option.for example, using a 3 pin 13A plug, this Volvo will take at least 40 hours (likely more accounting for inefficiencies in the charger etc).
using a 16A type 2 EV outlet will still take 30+ hours
OK, let's go with a 32A outlet - still talking 15+ hours
so what you say, I don't need to fully charge it every day, and yet, that's a perfectly valid argument, right up to the point that unless you can plug it in at work, your simply not at home long enough, and if your bothered about using cheap rate economy 7 to charge your EV, that's only a 7 hour window.
the Jaguar fell into this problem, it's onboard charger was only ~7.5kW (32A), they have just updated it to 11kW so at least you stand a chance of charging it under 10 hours - Audi went with a 22kW charger (3 phase 32A) as did Tesla when they launched the Model S (it was the dual charger option).
so, if you then realize that if you travel around 9as opposed to just local driving), public chargers are going to be essential, and at this point in time, that's extremely hit-miss, only Tesla have committed significant money to building a DC fast charging network, and whilst it's still not everywhere, it's certainly more prevalent and actually working than the hochpoch that's the other 'networks'.
Simon Elise said:
I don't think people really understand what charging these EV's actually takes.
for example, using a 3 pin 13A plug, this Volvo will take at least 40 hours (likely more accounting for inefficiencies in the charger etc).
using a 16A type 2 EV outlet will still take 30+ hours
OK, let's go with a 32A outlet - still talking 15+ hours
so what you say, I don't need to fully charge it every day, and yet, that's a perfectly valid argument, right up to the point that unless you can plug it in at work, your simply not at home long enough, and if your bothered about using cheap rate economy 7 to charge your EV, that's only a 7 hour window.
the Jaguar fell into this problem, it's onboard charger was only ~7.5kW (32A), they have just updated it to 11kW so at least you stand a chance of charging it under 10 hours - Audi went with a 22kW charger (3 phase 32A) as did Tesla when they launched the Model S (it was the dual charger option).
so, if you then realize that if you travel around 9as opposed to just local driving), public chargers are going to be essential, and at this point in time, that's extremely hit-miss, only Tesla have committed significant money to building a DC fast charging network, and whilst it's still not everywhere, it's certainly more prevalent and actually working than the hochpoch that's the other 'networks'.
As you rightly point out, people don't need to fully charge it, because they have a "fuel station" at home so they can charge it every day. If you buy a Tesla, they sell a 32A charger that can charge at ~7KW. If you work 8-6 and spend a couple of hours doing short trips or whatever, then that gives you 12 hours per day left to charge. At 7KW, that's 84KWh, i.e. more than the battery can hold in the Polestar or the Tesla M3. Absolute worst case in a Model 3 (cold winter motorway trips in the dark) a full battery will do 195 miles, so that's 72,000 miles per year. for example, using a 3 pin 13A plug, this Volvo will take at least 40 hours (likely more accounting for inefficiencies in the charger etc).
using a 16A type 2 EV outlet will still take 30+ hours
OK, let's go with a 32A outlet - still talking 15+ hours
so what you say, I don't need to fully charge it every day, and yet, that's a perfectly valid argument, right up to the point that unless you can plug it in at work, your simply not at home long enough, and if your bothered about using cheap rate economy 7 to charge your EV, that's only a 7 hour window.
the Jaguar fell into this problem, it's onboard charger was only ~7.5kW (32A), they have just updated it to 11kW so at least you stand a chance of charging it under 10 hours - Audi went with a 22kW charger (3 phase 32A) as did Tesla when they launched the Model S (it was the dual charger option).
so, if you then realize that if you travel around 9as opposed to just local driving), public chargers are going to be essential, and at this point in time, that's extremely hit-miss, only Tesla have committed significant money to building a DC fast charging network, and whilst it's still not everywhere, it's certainly more prevalent and actually working than the hochpoch that's the other 'networks'.
But again, you're right, you would want to take advantage of cheap rate electricity. One provider does 4 hours a day, midnight-4am at 5p per KWh. So in that case you only get 28KWh into the battery each night, which is (again absolute worst case) 70 miles per day, which is 25,550 miles per year.
So if you can remember to plug it in when you get home (which takes 10s), then even if you want the cheapest rate electric the car can still do 70 miles per day minimum. If your commute is longer than 35m each way and work doesn't provide chargers then you would have to take the extra KW at the more expensive rate.
I suspect the only people using superchargers are those doing long trips and those without charging at home. Home charging is perfectly fine for all but the most extreme commuting situations.
ZX10R NIN said:
15 hours to charge a car, that's just to long I'd say most cars would need to be charged within 9 hours to be a truly viable proposition.
I charge my model 3 at 8 amps, to fully charge from empty it would take about 20 hours.But I never do. Overnight covers 3-4 days use and I can easily make sure it's full for weekends.
I have an 11kw wall box I've not bothered fitting because I don't need it.
There are some people who will need more, do a 200 mile commute every day you'll need 7kw overnight or rapid charger, but those people are pretty rare as that's 3-4 hours driving every day.
selym said:
Rolling out - like extension leads? I don't think that having a cable out in the street, or even on your driveway, is a viable option.
This. https://youtu.be/Frkw6aurVUY
Or this, 3 years ago..
https://youtu.be/rKaEhBjt1ls
This is a solved problem
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