RE: 2020 Polestar 2 | PH Review
Discussion
Simon Elise said:
I don't think people really understand what charging these EV's actually takes.
for example, using a 3 pin 13A plug, this Volvo will take at least 40 hours (likely more accounting for inefficiencies in the charger etc).
using a 16A type 2 EV outlet will still take 30+ hours
OK, let's go with a 32A outlet - still talking 15+ hours
so what you say, I don't need to fully charge it every day, and yet, that's a perfectly valid argument, right up to the point that unless you can plug it in at work, your simply not at home long enough, and if your bothered about using cheap rate economy 7 to charge your EV, that's only a 7 hour window.
the Jaguar fell into this problem, it's onboard charger was only ~7.5kW (32A), they have just updated it to 11kW so at least you stand a chance of charging it under 10 hours - Audi went with a 22kW charger (3 phase 32A) as did Tesla when they launched the Model S (it was the dual charger option).
I think you don’t understand what charging takes - my iPace has never needed more than 12 hours with 7 kw charger to get absolutely full from virtually empty (which hardly ever happens because I don’t let it get near empty very often). The charge rate slows down enormously when you are above 90% and slows a bit from 80%-90% (all very approximately) so you can get to 90 ish % quite a bit more quickly. And it’s rare that I get home with less than 30% in and rarely need it to be full. And the polestar has roughly 10% less battery size than the iPace so it would take less time to charge for example, using a 3 pin 13A plug, this Volvo will take at least 40 hours (likely more accounting for inefficiencies in the charger etc).
using a 16A type 2 EV outlet will still take 30+ hours
OK, let's go with a 32A outlet - still talking 15+ hours
so what you say, I don't need to fully charge it every day, and yet, that's a perfectly valid argument, right up to the point that unless you can plug it in at work, your simply not at home long enough, and if your bothered about using cheap rate economy 7 to charge your EV, that's only a 7 hour window.
the Jaguar fell into this problem, it's onboard charger was only ~7.5kW (32A), they have just updated it to 11kW so at least you stand a chance of charging it under 10 hours - Audi went with a 22kW charger (3 phase 32A) as did Tesla when they launched the Model S (it was the dual charger option).
For it to be a regular problem you would have to be driving 200 miles a day (and unable to charge when out and about) and have such a terrible work life balance that you are only home for 10 hours a night. Getting a different job would be more beneficial than saying it’s EVs that are the problem
Oh and in the UK only a very small proportion of people have the three phase power supplies that make more than 7 kw charging possible
And yes you would have to be a bit mad to rely on a 3kw charge speed (I cannot understand why anyone would spend £50k on a car or £500 per month and think it excessive to spend a few hundred on a 7kW charger) but it wouldn’t be 40 hours to fill the polestar up
And if I ever get a Tesla I will not feel any need to go onto non Tesla threads and bang on about how all other EVs are useless.
RobDickinson said:
I charge my model 3 at 8 amps, to fully charge from empty it would take about 20 hours.
your going to have to explain that one, 8 amps @240V is 1.9kW, for 20 hours that's 38.4kWhwhat Tesla 3 has a battery that size? smallest is the Standard range at 50kWh?
I'm guessing here, but are you charging at 12A not 8A? (12A is the max from the UMC on a 3 pin domestic socket)
oop north said:
I think you don’t understand what charging takes - my iPace has never needed more than 12 hours with 7 kw charger to get absolutely full from virtually empty (which hardly ever happens because I don’t let it get near empty very often). The charge rate slows down enormously when you are above 90% and slows a bit from 80%-90% (all very approximately) so you can get to 90 ish % quite a bit more quickly. And it’s rare that I get home with less than 30% in and rarely need it to be full. And the polestar has roughly 10% less battery size than the iPace so it would take less time to charge
OK, I would question your comment on virtually empty, i-Pace has a 90kWh battery, and even if the charger and battery were 100% efficient, at 7kW that's almost 13 hours, in reality, it's more like 14 - I would suggest you have never been as close to zero as you imagine.oop north said:
And if I ever get a Tesla I will not feel any need to go onto non Tesla threads and bang on about how all other EVs are useless.
where did this come from? where have I suggest any such thing?, all I have pointed out is that some EV's have very limited on-board chargers, and unless you don't care about how much you pay for electricity, not being able to accomplish your typical charge in under 7 hours (the max for E7) is a problem.In more general terms, people keep suggesting that until EV's get to 4-500 mile range they are not workable, imagine the charge times these size of batteries will take..
Simon Elise said:
RobDickinson said:
I charge my model 3 at 8 amps, to fully charge from empty it would take about 20 hours.
your going to have to explain that one, 8 amps @240V is 1.9kW, for 20 hours that's 38.4kWhwhat Tesla 3 has a battery that size? smallest is the Standard range at 50kWh?
I'm guessing here, but are you charging at 12A not 8A? (12A is the max from the UMC on a 3 pin domestic socket)
Numeric said:
And what is the obsession with new brands at the moment??
They cost fortunes to promote and simply add confusion. The US got into this oddness in the late 80s/90s and in the end it all turned out to be rubbish.
So I get Volvo want to show this as a car not for me but for young techno luvvies with modern ecological lifestyles (by the way if you want to show your green credentials as a company stop making large personal transportation devices - no didn't think you were serious...) but I have bad news. To be effective they need to sell cars like this to everyday people in large volumes. They are just everyday consumers who don't know which wheels are driven and deeply into brands. Volvo would be acceptable - their friends have XCs, but Polestar? There has always been an obsession with lowering the demographic of the consumers of products - it's because marketing teams are often young teams themselves - but it's often found wanting in many consumer markets.
The world doesn't need a load more brands...
Can't help but think they should have revitalised an old brand, rather than make up a new one. Perhaps SAAB. Buy the rights and slap a badge on it. I suppose it's a double edged sword, it has more history but also comes with connotations...They cost fortunes to promote and simply add confusion. The US got into this oddness in the late 80s/90s and in the end it all turned out to be rubbish.
So I get Volvo want to show this as a car not for me but for young techno luvvies with modern ecological lifestyles (by the way if you want to show your green credentials as a company stop making large personal transportation devices - no didn't think you were serious...) but I have bad news. To be effective they need to sell cars like this to everyday people in large volumes. They are just everyday consumers who don't know which wheels are driven and deeply into brands. Volvo would be acceptable - their friends have XCs, but Polestar? There has always been an obsession with lowering the demographic of the consumers of products - it's because marketing teams are often young teams themselves - but it's often found wanting in many consumer markets.
The world doesn't need a load more brands...
Maybe a new brand is a good idea.
I still dont get SEAT and their Cupra offshoot though.
Simon Elise said:
selym said:
RobDickinson said:
Electricity is pretty much everywhere, thinking the last meter or two is a problem is plain stupid when there's already solutions in place that just need rolling out.
Rolling out - like extension leads? I don't think that having a cable out in the street, or even on your driveway, is a viable option.for example, using a 3 pin 13A plug, this Volvo will take at least 40 hours (likely more accounting for inefficiencies in the charger etc).
using a 16A type 2 EV outlet will still take 30+ hours
OK, let's go with a 32A outlet - still talking 15+ hours
so what you say, I don't need to fully charge it every day, and yet, that's a perfectly valid argument, right up to the point that unless you can plug it in at work, your simply not at home long enough, and if your bothered about using cheap rate economy 7 to charge your EV, that's only a 7 hour window.
the Jaguar fell into this problem, it's onboard charger was only ~7.5kW (32A), they have just updated it to 11kW so at least you stand a chance of charging it under 10 hours - Audi went with a 22kW charger (3 phase 32A) as did Tesla when they launched the Model S (it was the dual charger option).
so, if you then realize that if you travel around 9as opposed to just local driving), public chargers are going to be essential, and at this point in time, that's extremely hit-miss, only Tesla have committed significant money to building a DC fast charging network, and whilst it's still not everywhere, it's certainly more prevalent and actually working than the hochpoch that's the other 'networks'.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Twenty solutions which work for around 1/15th of the population each will do.Imagine if you had to explain the full solution drawing crude oil from thousands of holes around the world deep underground, under the sea, tar sands, transporting it to multiple different oil refineries all of which have to be accommodate different grades of oil and different desired end products. Then explain all of the pipelines, oil tankers, retail locations all of which you will need land, planning permissions, environmental legislation for. Getting charge to a car is relatively easy by comparison of the solutions are parcelled out to enough people.
The base solution is this, more than 2/3s of drivers will simply charge at home. They need around one high-speed charger per two hundred cars to enable long distance motoring, this can be funded from the cost of cars, see Tesla.
The other 1/3 are essentially a long tail. One solution that may simply sweep them up is shared autonomy. But a range of policy solutions would probably be better.
The most basic would be a "right to charge" legislation (my idea). This would entitle anyone who owns an ICE vehicle and could reasonably claim to intend to purchase an EV the right to a review of where the best place for them to charge an EV would be.
E.g. their street, their buildings garage, their employers car park or a communal fast charger.
They party for whom it would be easiest to accommodate the charging would be obliged to accommodate them, grants for EV charging would be handed out and reasonable standards for cost and reliability of chargers established.
Witchfinder said:
I think it looks clean, functional, and handsome, like high end Scandinavian furniture. I guess there's no accounting for taste.
Or manners. Compared to the cabins of its Volvo siblings the Polevolt’s has all the ambience of a council-run masturbatorium, in North Korea.
The I-Paste and Toucan cabins seem to be much more agreeable.
Talksteer said:
Imagine if you had to explain the full solution drawing crude oil from thousands of holes around the world deep underground, under the sea, tar sands, transporting it to multiple different oil refineries all of which have to be accommodate different grades of oil and different desired end products. Then explain all of the pipelines, oil tankers, retail locations all of which you will need land, planning permissions, environmental legislation for. Getting charge to a car is relatively easy by comparison of the solutions are parcelled out to enough people.
You're mad, this would never work - I mean how complex, contrived and ridiculous. And then you expect people to pump a highly flammable poisonous liquid and then drive around sat on top of this TICKING TIME BOMB! It'll never work.Next you'd expect people to be able fly anywhere and have to build some kind of shipping port for air craft (maybe an airport) with all the major logistical challenges involved. Insanity.
NGK210 said:
Am I alone in finding this car’s cabin vibe unremittingly, joylessly, bleak? Mercy 
Polvo should provide a colourfully attired, joke-telling clown companion for long journeys.
No, you’re not. It’s another example of mainstream car manufacture, completely soulless and only a means to get from a to b. The target audience will love it. Polvo should provide a colourfully attired, joke-telling clown companion for long journeys.
Wonder how long it will take until manufacturers offer nothing more than a multi-way mount/docking arrangement that will allow owners to fit their own tablets/iPads whatevers instead of lumbering them with OEM screens that will quickly become a dated liability? A long time I guess if satnav experience is any guide.
Not massively impressed by the external looks of this car, particularly the rear end which has a depressing SsangYong vibe to it. The colour of the test vehicle isn't helping.
Not massively impressed by the external looks of this car, particularly the rear end which has a depressing SsangYong vibe to it. The colour of the test vehicle isn't helping.
Blackpuddin said:
Wonder how long it will take until manufacturers offer nothing more than a multi-way mount/docking arrangement that will allow owners to fit their own tablets/iPads whatevers instead of lumbering them with OEM screens that will quickly become a dated liability? A long time I guess if satnav experience is any guide.
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