RE: £25k mega-hatches | Six of the Best

[SidewaysSi]

Shuthan_rs3 said:

SidewaysSi said:

I presume they aren't purely talking about the engine. Whilst the Merc is hardly that exciting, it is far better than the Audi which is beyond crap.

Here we go again, total nonsense and another dig though your video says otherwise, no wonder your subscriber count is one of the lowest of all reviewers I have come across. I would recommend you keep your so called opinions to yourself and I speak on behalf of most people here.

Edited by Shuthan_rs3 on Saturday 11th July 21:28

Some HH drivers are a sensitive bunch aren't they? And I have a video do I? What are you on about?

Actually, I do make videos but they tend to have me with multiple naked women in them and none of the ladies much care for a hot hatch.

And yes, the Audi is junk. Sorry.

The BMW would be the winner for me if it was a manual and had a few grand spent on it at Birds.

[tiggyzak]

Talking about naked women and cars reminds me of the enclosed. It's very old (50 years ?) so I don't think there is any problem showing it. Always amuses me...especially as I've got older !

Sorry ,bottom right corner reads .."but boy,when I first saw her..........."

Edited by tiggyzak on Sunday 12th July 09:16

[Another_James]

NGK210 said:

The Honda FK8 seems sooo good on paper, until you do some research:
They overheat during hot weather (c. 30degC and above), especially during trackdays.
Gearbox roulette, and if yours is duff, its faults will be myriad. And Honda won’t honour its warranty.
Much of that purposeful-looking venting is actually cosmetic and/or ineffectual (overheating).
So, as you trundle along with the engine in limp mode because it’s summer, while trying to get the gearbox to select a ratio and/or stay in gear, you realise you’re driving the car equivalent of padding your Calvins with socks. Magnificent.

I’ve owned and tracked an FK8 type R for more than a year now and have done a lot of research into the potential of it overheating on track. Basically issues seem very rare with the weather we have in the U.K. and it’s much more prevalent in USA, seemingly gearbox issues as well. Never seen a report of anybody overheating one on road anywhere. And when in the rare case they overheat we are talking a few mins of limp mode if you’ve been stupid enough not to let off with the temp gauge pegged. Never seen a report of a failure even when tuned beyond 400bhp.

Mine has been perfect (except a couple of interior rattles) but I would be more hesitant to recommend it if you are planning to extensively track it in warmer climates than we have.

I’m at Donington Park tomorrow so if it explodes I’ll be sure to post up pics 😉

Edited by Another_James on Sunday 12th July 08:24

[big_rob_sydney]

I love the Subaru JDM STI's. Some very cool Impreza hatches, and if people could stretch their definitions a little, also some cool Forester's, and Legacy's with load carrying capacity.

But sticking with the Impreza, these have character in abundance, the 2.0 JDM engines are almost unbreakable if treated with mechanical sympathy (please, no sidestepping the clutch at crazy rpm every traffic light) and given standard servicing, and the AWD will happily get you almost anywhere you want to go.

Also not being funny, but farmers use Subaru's a lot, mainly because the non performance versions are cheap to run, and reliable. That makes a good starting point from an engineering perspective, to turn out faster models, if that's what you want. (Funnily enough, that's exactly what Subaru did; they went from serving farmers in the beginning, to chasing WRC crowns).

Downsides? Sure, plenty. They drink like a fish. Insurance can be high. And while I don't personally care about such things, I know some people worry about the image.

But, I defy you to not have fun in one of these on a twisty back road! I would sincerely suggest that one of these would leave all others for dead in the stty British weather, on backroads with limited grip / traction.

[daytonavrs]

biggbn said:

Can you get a Scirrocco R in budget. I know its 'just a golf', but its not. Prettier and rarer than any on the list and a blast to drive. Fro. The list, Honda, Golf and Focus really appeal. Its crazy you can now find so much performance for what is, comparatively, such little outlay...and such diverse characters of car!!

Only one R in Scirocco btw.
The "Frog" had its moment of uniqueness when it came out, as does all new models ( new Fiat 500, VW Beetle, etc).
But pretty? If you were a bit smashed you could confuse it for a Vauxhall Tigra ??? No praises waiting for that either.
From the rear squashed roof look has aged badly too. Nothing like the original car either, very strange to take an iconic style and just piss it up the wall.

Quote from Clarkson on this
"Truth be told, I didn’t really want to drive the new Scirocco, for all the reasons that you read about on the Dear Deidre page in The Sun. You know how it goes. You enjoyed a year-long relationship 35 years ago. You hook up again, thanks to Facebook. And she has turned into a moose. Nobody wants that in their lives. Better to keep love from the past as a memory."

So true

[geo1905]

It's got to be the M140i, every time. Just sublime.

[DoubleD]

Ive always thought that the Scirroco was a bit of an odd looking thing, the back end looks like a fat woman riding a bike.

[Bobtherallyfan]

Trevor555 said:

Great description of a hot hatch.

I remember them arriving in the 80's and 90's. What an exciting time that was.

I had a MR2 MK1 and my brother turned up in a new 205 Gti which blew mine away, it was so much better in every way.

All I could do was tell him his car wasn't cool as it didn't have pop up headlights.

Great cars, sadly soon to be killed off.

A Yaris GR4 may well be my last car purchase.

How did a 205Gti blow away a MK1 MR2....even if it was a 1.9 Gti? They have virtually identical 0-60 times, BHP per ton etc and the MK1 MR2 handed beautifully.......they tended to end up in hedges less often than Peugeot’s.

[amgmcqueen]

Does the A45 AMG have a harsh ride? Are the dampers adjustable?

[Trevor555]

Bobtherallyfan said:

Trevor555 said:

Great description of a hot hatch.

I remember them arriving in the 80's and 90's. What an exciting time that was.

I had a MR2 MK1 and my brother turned up in a new 205 Gti which blew mine away, it was so much better in every way.

All I could do was tell him his car wasn't cool as it didn't have pop up headlights.

Great cars, sadly soon to be killed off.

A Yaris GR4 may well be my last car purchase.

How did a 205Gti blow away a MK1 MR2....even if it was a 1.9 Gti? They have virtually identical 0-60 times, BHP per ton etc and the MK1 MR2 handed beautifully.......they tended to end up in hedges less often than Peugeot’s.

As above, it was better. Quicker, pulled away from the Toyota at any speed. The 205 had low down grunt, the MR2 need revving.

You mention BHP per ton, maybe the Toyota lost some through the transmission? From memory I think the 205 was 130bhp? And a bit lighter?

I had an AE86 Corolla GT before the MR2, supposed to be 124bhp (same lump as MR2) I had it dyno'd and it was 94bhp at the rear wheels. I guess down to having a propshaft in there.

The 205 cornered way better than the MR2. I ended up buying it from my brother afterwards.

Honestly, it made the MR2 feel a bit rubbish.

Edited by Trevor555 on Sunday 12th July 13:45

[Water Fairy]

benzinbob said:

How often do you reach the limit?

Maybe he's a trackmeister

[Water Fairy]

It's strange that the Focus just shouts ASBO to me but I'd happily drive the Civic................ Hmmmm

Golf may be better than some like to admit but looks too similar to a GTD IMHO (dull) . But I can understand that being part of the appeal for some.

[smithyithy]

I always liked that Focus RS. Daft car, engine arguably better than the rest of the package, but what a silly cool car..

[biggbn]

daytonavrs said:

biggbn said:

Can you get a Scirrocco R in budget. I know its 'just a golf', but its not. Prettier and rarer than any on the list and a blast to drive. Fro. The list, Honda, Golf and Focus really appeal. Its crazy you can now find so much performance for what is, comparatively, such little outlay...and such diverse characters of car!!

Only one R in Scirocco btw.
The "Frog" had its moment of uniqueness when it came out, as does all new models ( new Fiat 500, VW Beetle, etc).
But pretty? If you were a bit smashed you could confuse it for a Vauxhall Tigra ??? No praises waiting for that either.
From the rear squashed roof look has aged badly too. Nothing like the original car either, very strange to take an iconic style and just piss it up the wall.

Quote from Clarkson on this
"Truth be told, I didn’t really want to drive the new Scirocco, for all the reasons that you read about on the Dear Deidre page in The Sun. You know how it goes. You enjoyed a year-long relationship 35 years ago. You hook up again, thanks to Facebook. And she has turned into a moose. Nobody wants that in their lives. Better to keep love from the past as a memory."

So true

Everyone has an opinion and they are all different. I think they are lovely looking things! However, opinions don't matter when it comes to spelling. And there is, indeed, one r in Scirocco.

[Driver101]

biggbn said:

daytonavrs said:

biggbn said:

Can you get a Scirrocco R in budget. I know its 'just a golf', but its not. Prettier and rarer than any on the list and a blast to drive. Fro. The list, Honda, Golf and Focus really appeal. Its crazy you can now find so much performance for what is, comparatively, such little outlay...and such diverse characters of car!!

Only one R in Scirocco btw.
The "Frog" had its moment of uniqueness when it came out, as does all new models ( new Fiat 500, VW Beetle, etc).
But pretty? If you were a bit smashed you could confuse it for a Vauxhall Tigra ??? No praises waiting for that either.
From the rear squashed roof look has aged badly too. Nothing like the original car either, very strange to take an iconic style and just piss it up the wall.

Quote from Clarkson on this
"Truth be told, I didn’t really want to drive the new Scirocco, for all the reasons that you read about on the Dear Deidre page in The Sun. You know how it goes. You enjoyed a year-long relationship 35 years ago. You hook up again, thanks to Facebook. And she has turned into a moose. Nobody wants that in their lives. Better to keep love from the past as a memory."

So true

Everyone has an opinion and they are all different. I think they are lovely looking things! However, opinions don't matter when it comes to spelling. And there is, indeed, one r in Scirocco.

Aren't they really outdated since they are based on the very old MK5 Golf?

[biggbn]

Driver101 said:

biggbn said:

daytonavrs said:

biggbn said:

Can you get a Scirrocco R in budget. I know its 'just a golf', but its not. Prettier and rarer than any on the list and a blast to drive. Fro. The list, Honda, Golf and Focus really appeal. Its crazy you can now find so much performance for what is, comparatively, such little outlay...and such diverse characters of car!!

Only one R in Scirocco btw.
The "Frog" had its moment of uniqueness when it came out, as does all new models ( new Fiat 500, VW Beetle, etc).
But pretty? If you were a bit smashed you could confuse it for a Vauxhall Tigra ??? No praises waiting for that either.
From the rear squashed roof look has aged badly too. Nothing like the original car either, very strange to take an iconic style and just piss it up the wall.

Quote from Clarkson on this
"Truth be told, I didn’t really want to drive the new Scirocco, for all the reasons that you read about on the Dear Deidre page in The Sun. You know how it goes. You enjoyed a year-long relationship 35 years ago. You hook up again, thanks to Facebook. And she has turned into a moose. Nobody wants that in their lives. Better to keep love from the past as a memory."

So true

Everyone has an opinion and they are all different. I think they are lovely looking things! However, opinions don't matter when it comes to spelling. And there is, indeed, one r in Scirocco.

Aren't they really outdated since they are based on the very old MK5 Golf?

Possibly but a bloody good drive. The mk5 was the Golf that signalled its return as an entertaining steer, although the mk3 and 4 were not a high bar to clear!! Mate had a bog standard white R and it was a great drive, looked wonderful and felt like it looked, hewn from granite!!

Edited by biggbn on Sunday 12th July 16:20

[Bobtherallyfan]

Trevor555 said:

As above, it was better. Quicker, pulled away from the Toyota at any speed. The 205 had low down grunt, the MR2 need revving.

You mention BHP per ton, maybe the Toyota lost some through the transmission? From memory I think the 205 was 130bhp? And a bit lighter?

I had an AE86 Corolla GT before the MR2, supposed to be 124bhp (same lump as MR2) I had it dyno'd and it was 94bhp at the rear wheels. I guess down to having a propshaft in there.

The 205 cornered way better than the MR2. I ended up buying it from my brother afterwards.

Honestly, it made the MR2 feel a bit rubbish.

Edited by Trevor555 on Sunday 12th July 13:45

Something was clearly very wrong with your MK1, probably suspension geometry. And there is no way a 205 will pull away from a MK1 if you are in the right gear....you had 7600 rpm to play with.

[biggbn]

Bobtherallyfan said:

Something was clearly very wrong with your MK1, probably suspension geometry. And there is no way a 205 will pull away from a MK1 if you are in the right gear....you had 7600 rpm to play with.

owned two mk1 mr2 and remember being blown away by its speed through corners. It was all top end but christ the wee cars pulled!!

[s m]

Bobtherallyfan said:

Trevor555 said:

Great description of a hot hatch.

I remember them arriving in the 80's and 90's. What an exciting time that was.

I had a MR2 MK1 and my brother turned up in a new 205 Gti which blew mine away, it was so much better in every way.

All I could do was tell him his car wasn't cool as it didn't have pop up headlights.

Great cars, sadly soon to be killed off.

A Yaris GR4 may well be my last car purchase.

How did a 205Gti blow away a MK1 MR2....even if it was a 1.9 Gti? They have virtually identical 0-60 times, BHP per ton etc and the MK1 MR2 handed beautifully.......they tended to end up in hedges less often than Peugeot’s.

I had a friend who owned 3 Mk1 MR2s in a row - he loved them and they always seemed to handle so well. I had the 309 GTi ( about 3 friends had the 1.9 205s ) and I honestly don’t think there’d have been more than a gnat’s breath between them ( or a 205 1.6/1.9 ) on any of the roads we used to drive them on



When CAR mag used to time road cars round the fast but fairly bumpy Combe circuit in the 80s the MR2 was a second quicker than the 1.6 115bhp 205 over an 80 second lap. I suspect it would have been a few tenths at most over a lap for the 1.9 and MR2 either way
Autocar loved the Mk1 MR2 they had at a Handling Day



Said friend tried a Mk2 MR2 when he had his last Mk1 and didn’t like that.

I think the big plus of the 205/309 GTis was the extra stuff/people you could cart about. I guess the big plus for my friend on having the MR2 was he never had to drive on a night out!

[NGK210]

Another_James said:

I’ve owned and tracked an FK8 type R for more than a year now and have done a lot of research into the potential of it overheating on track. Basically issues seem very rare with the weather we have in the U.K. and it’s much more prevalent in USA, seemingly gearbox issues as well. Never seen a report of anybody overheating one on road anywhere. And when in the rare case they overheat we are talking a few mins of limp mode if you’ve been stupid enough not to let off with the temp gauge pegged. Never seen a report of a failure even when tuned beyond 400bhp.

Mine has been perfect (except a couple of interior rattles) but I would be more hesitant to recommend it if you are planning to extensively track it in warmer climates than we have...

Glad your FK8 is a good ’un

Overheating arguably first flagged in 2015 by German car mag Auto Motor Und Sport road test of FK2 Type-R (in essence, same engine and gearbox as FK8):
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/test/honda-civ...

And here’s Car & Driver mag’s July 2020 30,000-mile update re. its FK8 Type-R long-termer, which discusses trackday overheating. Also worth noting this comment: “It also feels as if the second-gear synchro might be starting to resist our most aggressive advances.” Full article here:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.caranddriver.co...

In a PH FK8-related post on 27.05.20, FK8 owner Derek Chevalier wrote:
“I think anything more than an ambient of 15 degrees and you are hitting the limits of the standard cooling. I was at Bedford last summer when it was around 22 and the temperature gauge was near the top so I came back in to cool off. I was hitting 132 down the straight. I was back on a cold January day and hit 137 - big difference.“

Another FK2/FK8 gearbox thread:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/type-r-gearbox-iss...

And another:
https://www.civinfo.com/threads/lost-1st-gear.4204...

Worth considering that Honda has some history with gearbox design faults, as this vid explains:
https://youtu.be/5v_j9Ct2jrQ?t=347

All FK8 Type-R engines are built in the USA, the gearboxes in Japan, with final assembly in sunny Swindon. So, there’s no potential build quality variation due to regional origin – eg, Portugal-built VWs good; Germany-built VWs not so much.

So, for the most part FK8s are good, but spare the beans during hot weather and for Gawd’s sake get an independent warranty that covers gearboxes – because Honda’s won’t.