RE: 2020 Lotus Evora GT410 | PH Review

[bcr5784]

blueg33 said:

The Alpine is a great car and there are lots of reasons for choosing one.

The Evora is a great car and their are lots of reasons for choosing one.

The Evora is IMO not directly comparable to the Alpine.

This thread is about the Evora.

I agree and my only mention of the A word initially was in connection to the interior trim - for which the Evora (and the A) come in for some valid criticism. Unfortunately rockin's nervous tick over the A word led us off topic. That said any discussion of a car will give rise to discussion of the alternatives - and the obvious one is a Cayman 4.0 GTS - and I have said I'd have the Evora over it without question. But if your criterion is a practical everyday sports car of a certain level of performance then the valid comparisons become wider - the Supra for example (now they seem to have sorted the suspension).

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 13th July 07:41

[blueg33]

bcr5784 said:

blueg33 said:

The Alpine is a great car and there are lots of reasons for choosing one.

The Evora is a great car and their are lots of reasons for choosing one.

The Evora is IMO not directly comparable to the Alpine.

This thread is about the Evora.

I agree and my only mention of the A word initially was in connection to the interior trim - for which the Evora (and the A) come in for some valid criticism. Unfortunately rockin's nervous tick over the A word led us off topic. That said any discussion of a car will give rise to discussion of the alternatives - and the obvious one is a Cayman 4.0 GTS - and I have said I'd have the Evora over it without question. But if your criterion is a practical everyday sports car of a certain level of performance then the valid comparisons become wider - the Supra for example (now they seem to have sorted the suspension).

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 13th July 07:41

For me the Alpine is a contender against a used Evora as the price point and performance are more comparable.

Cayman GTS only if I wanted something a bit annodyne, a sort of fast company car. Supra - wouldn't even consider it, not keen on its looks

[Baldchap]

Even used Vs new (which is a silly discussion to get into), there isn't a comparison for me. If you're considering the Evora, or any Lotus for that matter, you aren't considering a turbocharged automatic.

[bcr5784]

blueg33 said:

For me the Alpine is a contender against a used Evora as the price point and performance are more comparable.

Cayman GTS only if I wanted something a bit annodyne, a sort of fast company car. Supra - wouldn't even consider it, not keen on its looks

Actually agree with your assessment of the GTS and Supra personally, but not everyone would. In any case not everyone buys on price - I'd not buy an Evora new because I don't see it as a 90k car. I have a personal set of criteria - 0-100mph in 9 or 10 seconds is plenty fast enough for me, reasonably refined and accommodating on a long holiday to start with. There are quite a few cars in the £50-100k (new) that satisfy those criteria and actually the extra £50k doesn't get extra speed, refinement or accomodation. It then comes down to which are most fun to drive - and the list gets shorter.

[bcr5784]

Baldchap said:

Even used Vs new (which is a silly discussion to get into), there isn't a comparison for me. If you're considering the Evora, or any Lotus for that matter, you aren't considering a turbocharged automatic.

Sorry but that is EXACTLY what I did. I don't have a thing about automatics (so long as they are good) or turbos (so long as they aren't noticeably laggy). Would you actually turn your nose up at a 488 or 650S?

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 13th July 08:32

[biggbn]

flukey5 said:

bcr5784 said:

It will be a sad day if the number of cylinders, the nationality and the price are the determinants of "desirability". As far as I am concerned the only true mentric is the ability to put a smile on your face. Hence 3 wheeler Morgan V twins, 3 pot Fiestas and 4 cylinder Caterhams rank higher in my "fun" estimation than many other more expensive cars with more "desirable" nationalities or numbers of cylinders.

Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 12th July 22:58

As an MX-5 owner I'm all about fun, but higher cylinder counts bring a noise, feeling, and allure that to a petrolhead is desirable. Do I like my MX-5's engine? Yes. Would I prefer a 5-cyl or V6? also yes. I'm sure an R8 would be discontinued by now if it had, say a 3-cylinder hybrid... oh wait that's an i8.

For the Alpine, an 'enthusiast' car, everyone knows that the missing manual is inexcusable, the same thing put plenty of people off the 4C. And yes, an auto is less fun.

As for the nationality, the simple fact is that by buying a Lotus I am keeping Brits in jobs and that feels good to me. In the same way I support England in the football, I also like to support them with my wallet. And that's without the desirability of lotus as a brand.

I'd have an i8 over an R8 any day and a bigger heavier engine would destroy an mx5 ethos and fun factor. If anything a high power turbo triple would be my ultimate mx5 lump, or a high revving rotary.

Evora or Alpine? Evora for me but I would not be one bit disappointed if my key had an Alpine badge on it instead. I suspect the Evora is the more complete performance package and its ride would make it the better one to live with.

[blueg33]

bcr5784 said:

Baldchap said:

Even used Vs new (which is a silly discussion to get into), there isn't a comparison for me. If you're considering the Evora, or any Lotus for that matter, you aren't considering a turbocharged automatic.

Sorry but that is EXACTLY what I did. I don't have a thing about automatics (so long as they are good) or turbos (so long as they aren't noticeably laggy). Would you actually turn your nose up at a 488 or 650S?

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 13th July 08:32

Also exactly what I did. 4c and Alpine in my case - bought a supercharged Evora Sports Racer

[bcr5784]

biggbn said:

I'd have an i8 over an R8 any day and a bigger heavier engine would destroy an mx5 ethos and fun factor. If anything a high power turbo triple would be my ultimate mx5 lump, or a high revving rotary.

Evora or Alpine? Evora for me but I would not be one bit disappointed if my key had an Alpine badge on it instead. I suspect the Evora is the more complete performance package and its ride would make it the better one to live with.

According to Gordon Murray(who owns one) the Alpine has the best ride/handling balance of ANY car - just displacing the Evora from that spot according to him. "Performance package" up to 100mph there is little or nothing in it. about 9 seconds for Evora 10 for Alpine 9 for 110S - and there are any number of cheap remaps that will make the Alpine faster still. See http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6621-5638.htm Drive the two back to back and the extra flexibility of the Alpine is noticeable. On the other hand the Evora makes vastly nicer noises - which will doubtless be critical for many, as will the manual gearbox. (but half Evoras sold are autos!)

[Porsche911R]

bcr5784 said:

Baldchap said:

Even used Vs new (which is a silly discussion to get into), there isn't a comparison for me. If you're considering the Evora, or any Lotus for that matter, you aren't considering a turbocharged automatic.

Sorry but that is EXACTLY what I did. I don't have a thing about automatics (so long as they are good) or turbos (so long as they aren't noticeably laggy). Would you actually turn your nose up at a 488 or 650S?

Edited by bcr5784 on Monday 13th July 08:32

I would touch neither !!!

So yes people in this boat won't buy an Alpine the same way not many bought 4C.

[biggbn]

bcr5784 said:

biggbn said:

I'd have an i8 over an R8 any day and a bigger heavier engine would destroy an mx5 ethos and fun factor. If anything a high power turbo triple would be my ultimate mx5 lump, or a high revving rotary.

Evora or Alpine? Evora for me but I would not be one bit disappointed if my key had an Alpine badge on it instead. I suspect the Evora is the more complete performance package and its ride would make it the better one to live with.

According to Gordon Murray(who owns one) the Alpine has the best ride/handling balance of ANY car - just displacing the Evora from that spot according to him. "Performance package" up to 100mph there is little or nothing in it. about 9 seconds for Evora 10 for Alpine 9 for 110S - and there are any number of cheap remaps that will make the Alpine faster still. See http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6621-5638.htm Drive the two back to back and the extra flexibility of the Alpine is noticeable. On the other hand the Evora makes vastly nicer noises - which will doubtless be critical for many, as will the manual gearbox. (but half Evoras sold are autos!)

I did not know the Alpine had such a good ride. Parameters adjusted accordingly!! (Being a big tart, it also comes down to aesthetics for me and pretty as the Alpine is, i much prefer Evora). My musings are just that by the way, I will never be in a position to own either car, but one can but dream!!

[anonymous-user]

So there we have it, no need to look at £80k Evoras when you can buy the "better" £50k Alpine instead. More flexible engine, better chassis, better interior.

Well, according to this thread anyway.

[SidewaysSi]

I've never understood why people really care what the old Gord thinks about cars.

Plenty of others who I would listen to way before I listened to him.

But I do think the Alpine is a cracking car - don't think many will cross shop against a Lotus though.

[biggbn]

SidewaysSi said:

I've never understood why people really care what the old Gord thinks about cars.

Plenty of others who I would listen to way before I listened to him.

But I do think the Alpine is a cracking car - don't think many will cross shop against a Lotus though.

I respect Murray because he walks the walk. He has built cars that mirror his ethos, the proof in the pudding being that they have been brilliant. He seems like a good egg and is the opposite of the anonymous annodyne bean counter engineer many companies are now creating...

[bcr5784]

SidewaysSi said:

.

But I do think the Alpine is a cracking car - don't think many will cross shop against a Lotus though.

Can't see many agonising between an Elise or Exige and an Alpine. Evora? So few sold that it's difficult to say - few seem to know what a terrific car it is. Plenty of Alpine owners previously have owned Porsches - but I suspect few (far too few) even consider the Evora.

[CABC]

i'd cross-shop a GT86 with a lot of cars mentioned above. in fact i did!
that's because i run a fleet, and so i put the fun daily in a light car that's half the price. more serious journeys would take a barge. Elise in garage for proper fun. once you have 3+ cars people can cross-shop seemingly non-competing cars as they balance usage & preferences. lots of choices and always a compromise somewhere.

[Venisonpie]

bcr5784 said:

SidewaysSi said:

.

But I do think the Alpine is a cracking car - don't think many will cross shop against a Lotus though.

Can't see many agonising between an Elise or Exige and an Alpine. Evora? So few sold that it's difficult to say - few seem to know what a terrific car it is. Plenty of Alpine owners previously have owned Porsches - but I suspect few (far too few) even consider the Evora.

That's what I'm doing. Just sold my Elise and now looking at Alpine, Exige and Evora.

Oh, and an SL500..

[bcr5784]

Venisonpie said:

That's what I'm doing. Just sold my Elise and now looking at Alpine, Exige and Evora.

Oh, and an SL500..

You wouldn't care to expand on your reasoning/requirements - the Elise and Exige seem like similar fairly raw cars , and the Alpine and Evora as similarly practical dailies. And the SL500?

[Lotobear]

I drove an A110 a couple of weeks ago - in fact my pal and I swapped cars and drove each a very well known stretch of twisty tarmac in northern England.

The Alpine felt light, as expected, but oddly for me it felt more disconnected. It reminded me of a playstation - lots of noise and graphics (that could be a good or bad thing depending on the individual) I could not get used to the paddle change (but probabaly could with more time) but it did feel quick. My Evora felt more planted and somehow more solid on the road. I liked the Alpine but did not get out feeling like I must have one.

My pal liked the Evora and, unexpectedly, commented it felt 'well screwed together' and he preferred the steering feel.

Overall impression was the A110 felt digital and the Evora more 'analogue'/old school.

[Venisonpie]

bcr5784 said:

Venisonpie said:

That's what I'm doing. Just sold my Elise and now looking at Alpine, Exige and Evora.

Oh, and an SL500..

You wouldn't care to expand on your reasoning/requirements - the Elise and Exige seem like similar fairly raw cars , and the Alpine and Evora as similarly practical dailies. And the SL500?

Sure, they would all be used examples btw. The Exige is appealing as it would give more performance and a better noise than the Elise and a little bit more luggage space which is where I struggled a bit with the smaller car. The Evora takes the balance a bit further in the direction of a normalish car whilst appearing to retain that special Lotus interaction and feel. The Alpine is similar in balance but a different approach - the low weight would probably trump a manual Evora for me as whilst I love a manual I'm not anchored to them.
Finally the R231 SL would give a completely different drive and experience which would make a great contrast to what I've just had. I ran an R129 for 5 years and loved it.
My approach isn't focused in one direction but open minded as to what I might enjoy next. It will be a weekend car so there's huge room for flexibility.

[bcr5784]

Lotobear said:

I drove an A110 a couple of weeks ago - in fact my pal and I swapped cars and drove each a very well known stretch of twisty tarmac in northern England.

The Alpine felt light, as expected, but oddly for me it felt more disconnected. It reminded me of a playstation - lots of noise and graphics (that could be a good or bad thing depending on the individual) I could not get used to the paddle change (but probabaly could with more time) but it did feel quick. My Evora felt more planted and somehow more solid on the road. I liked the Alpine but did not get out feeling like I must have one.

My pal liked the Evora and, unexpectedly, commented it felt 'well screwed together' and he preferred the steering feel.

Overall impression was the A110 felt digital and the Evora more 'analogue'/old school.

Interesting comparison. Certainly the Evora has much better steering, and sounds a lot better. I wouldn't have said the 410 sport I drove was more "planted" - quite the reverse - though I believe the 400 is set up to be less nervous. If you prefer a more planted feel you might prefer the A110S (I don't). Personally I wanted to get away from the planted feel of the 981S Cayman I had previously. As you say the Alpine feels (surprizingly?) quick - Alpine make much of its agility to the point where you think they are trying to hide the fact that it's a bit slow, which it isn't.