What’s the future hold for us petrol heads?
Discussion
As far as I know there's no precidence for taking something which was once road legal and making it no longer road legal. ICE will very quickly get to the point where it's so niche that there'd be no point in banning it anymore than there's any point in banning traction engines from the road today.
Edited by kambites on Friday 17th July 13:47
jamoor said:
They will probably have a petrol weekender but will suffer from range anxiety as there will be nowhere to fill it up.
But one of the many good points of a petrol car is... you can pop a 5L can in the boot (or even two) and get around this issue. Like to see a battery car pull that trick.
MDT said:
But one of the many good points of a petrol car is... you can pop a 5L can in the boot (or even two) and get around this issue.
Like to see a battery car pull that trick.
I'm pretty sure one of the manfacturers was trialing a system which basically did that. A car with a normal built-in battery pack which could be suplemented by a pluggable module (or modules) to increase range when required. Like to see a battery car pull that trick.
Terminator X said:
Thankfully you guys remain in the minority, hastening us toward a very dull future.
TX.
PS why the hardon with "savage acceleration"? Seems the way with the EV brigade. I can't say I spend my time out accelerating every car on the road even though I could. Strange.
I guess people who buy performance versions of ordinary cars with much more power than they need must do so for some reason, since they could save a fortune with a lower powered model.TX.
PS why the hardon with "savage acceleration"? Seems the way with the EV brigade. I can't say I spend my time out accelerating every car on the road even though I could. Strange.
CABC said:
comparing Tesla claim to current ICE reality, mmm.
ICE cars get scrapped for reasons other than the ICE typically.
Most early EV adopters will not be running their cars for half a million miles because, as the poster you responded to said, they'll be swapping out for the latest model well before then.
Lifespans are unknown for now. However, as with ICE, it could be suspension, electrics and other control modules that see an ev scrapped way before half a million. Swapping out motors or batteries could be straightforward, but that's the equivalent of the engine - the most reliable part of a modern car.
i'm not denying the benefits of EV, but make the correct comparisons and not over justify your new consumer good.
So what happens to the EV after the early adopter is done with it? Is it scrapped?ICE cars get scrapped for reasons other than the ICE typically.
Most early EV adopters will not be running their cars for half a million miles because, as the poster you responded to said, they'll be swapping out for the latest model well before then.
Lifespans are unknown for now. However, as with ICE, it could be suspension, electrics and other control modules that see an ev scrapped way before half a million. Swapping out motors or batteries could be straightforward, but that's the equivalent of the engine - the most reliable part of a modern car.
i'm not denying the benefits of EV, but make the correct comparisons and not over justify your new consumer good.
True electronics and other control modules could fail, you get that with ICE cars too and thats before you get to all of the non engine related ICE stuff like waterpumps, timing belts, exhausts, o2 sensors and a whole host of other things.
MDT said:
jamoor said:
They will probably have a petrol weekender but will suffer from range anxiety as there will be nowhere to fill it up.
But one of the many good points of a petrol car is... you can pop a 5L can in the boot (or even two) and get around this issue. Like to see a battery car pull that trick.
I never drive around with 5L of petrol in my car.
jamoor said:
MDT said:
jamoor said:
They will probably have a petrol weekender but will suffer from range anxiety as there will be nowhere to fill it up.
But one of the many good points of a petrol car is... you can pop a 5L can in the boot (or even two) and get around this issue. Like to see a battery car pull that trick.
I never drive around with 5L of petrol in my car.
This would be equivalent to buying an EV booster pack like you have for your phone or laptop - it will be the car equivalent. It would also be widely available by that stage, so actually is a non-issue.
rjg48 said:
jamoor said:
Why would you do that, you would just pull up at a very common charging station which have replaced petrol stations.
.
.
When should we expect this, Futureboy?
Have a look, you may be suprised just how many chargers are in place, and the network is expanding incredibly fast
The reality is nobody is going to keep an electric car for 500 000 miles because even if the motor lasts that long the rest of the car won't. I'm in the process of having my TVR Griffith retrimmed at pretty significant cost but only because it's a car I love and am deeply passionate about and which holds its value. Most interiors are fairly tatty after 100 000 miles and do you know anybody who realistically would pay £5000 to have their EV trimmed every 100 000 miles? People don't do it now with their Audi A4 daily so why would they with an EV?
My understanding is that traditional Land Rovers have the lowest environmental footprint of any car ever made simply because most of the environmental impact of any car is its manufacture and in the case of Land Rovers this impact is amortized over more years than any other vehicle simply because they are usually kept running for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-livi...
So is my TVR Griffith actually less environmentally impacting than your Tesla? Possibly, - so I just hope the legislators recognise this fact and continue to permit me to drive and enjoy it long into the future.
My gut feel is that as more and more people buy and run EV's as dailies then we are going to see drop in the number of petrol pumps available. We might come to a point where petrolheads such as us end up keeping modest fuel stores at home just as we do for heating oil due to the scarcity of commercial filling stations. Perhaps these Pistonheads fuel store owners will find a mechanism to supply fuel to others who are touring in the area so if I take my TVR to Scotland I will fill up at a series of people's houses now operating as petrol filling stations for commercial gain. Their locations could be available as a paid subscription service database on a GPS. If the pumps are automated to take payment details in advance for the fuel dispensed then people could be filling up on my drive while I am at work. I see a need for those of us who care about ICE motoring to setup reciprocal arrangements such as this in the next 10-15 years, in short we may need to band together both to lobby for continued petrol supply, to make the environmental case for old vehicles and to avoid punitive taxes on them and to provide community fuelling options.
I've just driven to Bristol (140 miles or so) yesterday for a night with a mate and that journey simply isn't feasible without stopping in an electric Golf (140 miles) or electric Mini (124 miles). For my visit to Blackpool on Monday of 288 miles I'm beyond the range of all but the top Tesla's and it would require me to stop at least twice in an electric golf lengthening the journey from 4hrs 30 to probably 6 hours. I'm simply not currently attracted to the idea of standing in a motorway services catching Covid for 90 mins bored while my EV charges! A friend who was an early adopter of EV has a Tesla in which after 10 years the batteries are knackered. Cost to replace £10 000 but no incentive to do so because he would still be driving around in a tatty, rusty, scruffy 10 year old family car.
The only way I can see an EV being tempting right now is for a car (or citycar) that is only used for commuting under say 50 miles each way. Too many of my drives are 150 plus miles visiting friends or sightseeing for me to ever consider one. The driving experience is too soulless, the styling is too bland, the cost to purchase is too high, the range is inadequate (for my use case) and the environmental impact of making them and recycling the batteries is far too dubious. There's simply no logical reason why I would buy one right now. As for the financial benefits of saving on fuel even this financial benefit (for as long as it exists and isn't taxed by the Gov't) is highly dubious. We looked into replacing my wife's 10 yr old Mitsubishi Outlander with petrol V6 engine that does 22mpg. We worked out she spends £400 a month on fuel and the car costs under £1000 a year on servicing, there's no repayments so monthly cost £480 a month. The new Toyota RAV 4 EV we looked at would cost us £500-£600 a month on PCP and still burn £200 of fuel. Monthly cost £7/800 a month - the economics still don't stack up.
The new Nissan Ariya does look interesting though - 300 miles range, SUV capability (we regularly take tents, bikes, garden rubbish etc to the tip) - this could be a game changer depending on the price (estimated £40k).
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road. To do so in the UK would be particularly painful because I think the proportion of the population here who care about preserving old cars is higher than anywhere else on earth. We have a rich heritage from the Blower Bentleys of the 30's, the Jag's of the 50's the Aston DB's of the sixties, the Healey's and MG's and TVR's of the 90's through to the McLaren's and Bentleys of today. Lets not flush all that down the toilet due to spurious environmental arguments.
Saxon
My understanding is that traditional Land Rovers have the lowest environmental footprint of any car ever made simply because most of the environmental impact of any car is its manufacture and in the case of Land Rovers this impact is amortized over more years than any other vehicle simply because they are usually kept running for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-livi...
So is my TVR Griffith actually less environmentally impacting than your Tesla? Possibly, - so I just hope the legislators recognise this fact and continue to permit me to drive and enjoy it long into the future.
My gut feel is that as more and more people buy and run EV's as dailies then we are going to see drop in the number of petrol pumps available. We might come to a point where petrolheads such as us end up keeping modest fuel stores at home just as we do for heating oil due to the scarcity of commercial filling stations. Perhaps these Pistonheads fuel store owners will find a mechanism to supply fuel to others who are touring in the area so if I take my TVR to Scotland I will fill up at a series of people's houses now operating as petrol filling stations for commercial gain. Their locations could be available as a paid subscription service database on a GPS. If the pumps are automated to take payment details in advance for the fuel dispensed then people could be filling up on my drive while I am at work. I see a need for those of us who care about ICE motoring to setup reciprocal arrangements such as this in the next 10-15 years, in short we may need to band together both to lobby for continued petrol supply, to make the environmental case for old vehicles and to avoid punitive taxes on them and to provide community fuelling options.
I've just driven to Bristol (140 miles or so) yesterday for a night with a mate and that journey simply isn't feasible without stopping in an electric Golf (140 miles) or electric Mini (124 miles). For my visit to Blackpool on Monday of 288 miles I'm beyond the range of all but the top Tesla's and it would require me to stop at least twice in an electric golf lengthening the journey from 4hrs 30 to probably 6 hours. I'm simply not currently attracted to the idea of standing in a motorway services catching Covid for 90 mins bored while my EV charges! A friend who was an early adopter of EV has a Tesla in which after 10 years the batteries are knackered. Cost to replace £10 000 but no incentive to do so because he would still be driving around in a tatty, rusty, scruffy 10 year old family car.
The only way I can see an EV being tempting right now is for a car (or citycar) that is only used for commuting under say 50 miles each way. Too many of my drives are 150 plus miles visiting friends or sightseeing for me to ever consider one. The driving experience is too soulless, the styling is too bland, the cost to purchase is too high, the range is inadequate (for my use case) and the environmental impact of making them and recycling the batteries is far too dubious. There's simply no logical reason why I would buy one right now. As for the financial benefits of saving on fuel even this financial benefit (for as long as it exists and isn't taxed by the Gov't) is highly dubious. We looked into replacing my wife's 10 yr old Mitsubishi Outlander with petrol V6 engine that does 22mpg. We worked out she spends £400 a month on fuel and the car costs under £1000 a year on servicing, there's no repayments so monthly cost £480 a month. The new Toyota RAV 4 EV we looked at would cost us £500-£600 a month on PCP and still burn £200 of fuel. Monthly cost £7/800 a month - the economics still don't stack up.
The new Nissan Ariya does look interesting though - 300 miles range, SUV capability (we regularly take tents, bikes, garden rubbish etc to the tip) - this could be a game changer depending on the price (estimated £40k).
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road. To do so in the UK would be particularly painful because I think the proportion of the population here who care about preserving old cars is higher than anywhere else on earth. We have a rich heritage from the Blower Bentleys of the 30's, the Jag's of the 50's the Aston DB's of the sixties, the Healey's and MG's and TVR's of the 90's through to the McLaren's and Bentleys of today. Lets not flush all that down the toilet due to spurious environmental arguments.
Saxon
saxon said:
The reality is nobody is going to keep an electric car for 500 000 miles because even if the motor lasts that long the rest of the car won't. I'm in the process of having my TVR Griffith retrimmed at pretty significant cost but only because it's a car I love and am deeply passionate about and which holds its value. Most interiors are fairly tatty after 100 000 miles and do you know anybody who realistically would pay £5000 to have their EV trimmed every 100 000 miles? People don't do it now with their Audi A4 daily so why would they with an EV?
My understanding is that traditional Land Rovers have the lowest environmental footprint of any car ever made simply because most of the environmental impact of any car is its manufacture and in the case of Land Rovers this impact is amortized over more years than any other vehicle simply because they are usually kept running for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-livi...
So is my TVR Griffith actually less environmentally impacting than your Tesla? Possibly, - so I just hope the legislators recognise this fact and continue to permit me to drive and enjoy it long into the future.
My gut feel is that as more and more people buy and run EV's as dailies then we are going to see drop in the number of petrol pumps available. We might come to a point where petrolheads such as us end up keeping modest fuel stores at home just as we do for heating oil due to the scarcity of commercial filling stations. Perhaps these Pistonheads fuel store owners will find a mechanism to supply fuel to others who are touring in the area so if I take my TVR to Scotland I will fill up at a series of people's houses now operating as petrol filling stations for commercial gain. Their locations could be available as a paid subscription service database on a GPS. If the pumps are automated to take payment details in advance for the fuel dispensed then people could be filling up on my drive while I am at work. I see a need for those of us who care about ICE motoring to setup reciprocal arrangements such as this in the next 10-15 years, in short we may need to band together both to lobby for continued petrol supply, to make the environmental case for old vehicles and to avoid punitive taxes on them and to provide community fuelling options.
I've just driven to Bristol (140 miles or so) yesterday for a night with a mate and that journey simply isn't feasible without stopping in an electric Golf (140 miles) or electric Mini (124 miles). For my visit to Blackpool on Monday of 288 miles I'm beyond the range of all but the top Tesla's and it would require me to stop at least twice in an electric golf lengthening the journey from 4hrs 30 to probably 6 hours. I'm simply not currently attracted to the idea of standing in a motorway services catching Covid for 90 mins bored while my EV charges! A friend who was an early adopter of EV has a Tesla in which after 10 years the batteries are knackered. Cost to replace £10 000 but no incentive to do so because he would still be driving around in a tatty, rusty, scruffy 10 year old family car.
The only way I can see an EV being tempting right now is for a car (or citycar) that is only used for commuting under say 50 miles each way. Too many of my drives are 150 plus miles visiting friends or sightseeing for me to ever consider one. The driving experience is too soulless, the styling is too bland, the cost to purchase is too high, the range is inadequate (for my use case) and the environmental impact of making them and recycling the batteries is far too dubious. There's simply no logical reason why I would buy one right now. As for the financial benefits of saving on fuel even this financial benefit (for as long as it exists and isn't taxed by the Gov't) is highly dubious. We looked into replacing my wife's 10 yr old Mitsubishi Outlander with petrol V6 engine that does 22mpg. We worked out she spends £400 a month on fuel and the car costs under £1000 a year on servicing, there's no repayments so monthly cost £480 a month. The new Toyota RAV 4 EV we looked at would cost us £500-£600 a month on PCP and still burn £200 of fuel. Monthly cost £7/800 a month - the economics still don't stack up.
The new Nissan Ariya does look interesting though - 300 miles range, SUV capability (we regularly take tents, bikes, garden rubbish etc to the tip) - this could be a game changer depending on the price (estimated £40k).
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road. To do so in the UK would be particularly painful because I think the proportion of the population here who care about preserving old cars is higher than anywhere else on earth. We have a rich heritage from the Blower Bentleys of the 30's, the Jag's of the 50's the Aston DB's of the sixties, the Healey's and MG's and TVR's of the 90's through to the McLaren's and Bentleys of today. Lets not flush all that down the toilet due to spurious environmental arguments.
Saxon
Man decides he doesn't like EVs (no idea why) and makes up huge list of "reasons" to back up his bias............My understanding is that traditional Land Rovers have the lowest environmental footprint of any car ever made simply because most of the environmental impact of any car is its manufacture and in the case of Land Rovers this impact is amortized over more years than any other vehicle simply because they are usually kept running for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-livi...
So is my TVR Griffith actually less environmentally impacting than your Tesla? Possibly, - so I just hope the legislators recognise this fact and continue to permit me to drive and enjoy it long into the future.
My gut feel is that as more and more people buy and run EV's as dailies then we are going to see drop in the number of petrol pumps available. We might come to a point where petrolheads such as us end up keeping modest fuel stores at home just as we do for heating oil due to the scarcity of commercial filling stations. Perhaps these Pistonheads fuel store owners will find a mechanism to supply fuel to others who are touring in the area so if I take my TVR to Scotland I will fill up at a series of people's houses now operating as petrol filling stations for commercial gain. Their locations could be available as a paid subscription service database on a GPS. If the pumps are automated to take payment details in advance for the fuel dispensed then people could be filling up on my drive while I am at work. I see a need for those of us who care about ICE motoring to setup reciprocal arrangements such as this in the next 10-15 years, in short we may need to band together both to lobby for continued petrol supply, to make the environmental case for old vehicles and to avoid punitive taxes on them and to provide community fuelling options.
I've just driven to Bristol (140 miles or so) yesterday for a night with a mate and that journey simply isn't feasible without stopping in an electric Golf (140 miles) or electric Mini (124 miles). For my visit to Blackpool on Monday of 288 miles I'm beyond the range of all but the top Tesla's and it would require me to stop at least twice in an electric golf lengthening the journey from 4hrs 30 to probably 6 hours. I'm simply not currently attracted to the idea of standing in a motorway services catching Covid for 90 mins bored while my EV charges! A friend who was an early adopter of EV has a Tesla in which after 10 years the batteries are knackered. Cost to replace £10 000 but no incentive to do so because he would still be driving around in a tatty, rusty, scruffy 10 year old family car.
The only way I can see an EV being tempting right now is for a car (or citycar) that is only used for commuting under say 50 miles each way. Too many of my drives are 150 plus miles visiting friends or sightseeing for me to ever consider one. The driving experience is too soulless, the styling is too bland, the cost to purchase is too high, the range is inadequate (for my use case) and the environmental impact of making them and recycling the batteries is far too dubious. There's simply no logical reason why I would buy one right now. As for the financial benefits of saving on fuel even this financial benefit (for as long as it exists and isn't taxed by the Gov't) is highly dubious. We looked into replacing my wife's 10 yr old Mitsubishi Outlander with petrol V6 engine that does 22mpg. We worked out she spends £400 a month on fuel and the car costs under £1000 a year on servicing, there's no repayments so monthly cost £480 a month. The new Toyota RAV 4 EV we looked at would cost us £500-£600 a month on PCP and still burn £200 of fuel. Monthly cost £7/800 a month - the economics still don't stack up.
The new Nissan Ariya does look interesting though - 300 miles range, SUV capability (we regularly take tents, bikes, garden rubbish etc to the tip) - this could be a game changer depending on the price (estimated £40k).
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road. To do so in the UK would be particularly painful because I think the proportion of the population here who care about preserving old cars is higher than anywhere else on earth. We have a rich heritage from the Blower Bentleys of the 30's, the Jag's of the 50's the Aston DB's of the sixties, the Healey's and MG's and TVR's of the 90's through to the McLaren's and Bentleys of today. Lets not flush all that down the toilet due to spurious environmental arguments.
Saxon
Max_Torque said:
saxon said:
The reality is nobody is going to keep an electric car for 500 000 miles because even if the motor lasts that long the rest of the car won't. I'm in the process of having my TVR Griffith retrimmed at pretty significant cost but only because it's a car I love and am deeply passionate about and which holds its value. Most interiors are fairly tatty after 100 000 miles and do you know anybody who realistically would pay £5000 to have their EV trimmed every 100 000 miles? People don't do it now with their Audi A4 daily so why would they with an EV?
My understanding is that traditional Land Rovers have the lowest environmental footprint of any car ever made simply because most of the environmental impact of any car is its manufacture and in the case of Land Rovers this impact is amortized over more years than any other vehicle simply because they are usually kept running for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-livi...
So is my TVR Griffith actually less environmentally impacting than your Tesla? Possibly, - so I just hope the legislators recognise this fact and continue to permit me to drive and enjoy it long into the future.
My gut feel is that as more and more people buy and run EV's as dailies then we are going to see drop in the number of petrol pumps available. We might come to a point where petrolheads such as us end up keeping modest fuel stores at home just as we do for heating oil due to the scarcity of commercial filling stations. Perhaps these Pistonheads fuel store owners will find a mechanism to supply fuel to others who are touring in the area so if I take my TVR to Scotland I will fill up at a series of people's houses now operating as petrol filling stations for commercial gain. Their locations could be available as a paid subscription service database on a GPS. If the pumps are automated to take payment details in advance for the fuel dispensed then people could be filling up on my drive while I am at work. I see a need for those of us who care about ICE motoring to setup reciprocal arrangements such as this in the next 10-15 years, in short we may need to band together both to lobby for continued petrol supply, to make the environmental case for old vehicles and to avoid punitive taxes on them and to provide community fuelling options.
I've just driven to Bristol (140 miles or so) yesterday for a night with a mate and that journey simply isn't feasible without stopping in an electric Golf (140 miles) or electric Mini (124 miles). For my visit to Blackpool on Monday of 288 miles I'm beyond the range of all but the top Tesla's and it would require me to stop at least twice in an electric golf lengthening the journey from 4hrs 30 to probably 6 hours. I'm simply not currently attracted to the idea of standing in a motorway services catching Covid for 90 mins bored while my EV charges! A friend who was an early adopter of EV has a Tesla in which after 10 years the batteries are knackered. Cost to replace £10 000 but no incentive to do so because he would still be driving around in a tatty, rusty, scruffy 10 year old family car.
The only way I can see an EV being tempting right now is for a car (or citycar) that is only used for commuting under say 50 miles each way. Too many of my drives are 150 plus miles visiting friends or sightseeing for me to ever consider one. The driving experience is too soulless, the styling is too bland, the cost to purchase is too high, the range is inadequate (for my use case) and the environmental impact of making them and recycling the batteries is far too dubious. There's simply no logical reason why I would buy one right now. As for the financial benefits of saving on fuel even this financial benefit (for as long as it exists and isn't taxed by the Gov't) is highly dubious. We looked into replacing my wife's 10 yr old Mitsubishi Outlander with petrol V6 engine that does 22mpg. We worked out she spends £400 a month on fuel and the car costs under £1000 a year on servicing, there's no repayments so monthly cost £480 a month. The new Toyota RAV 4 EV we looked at would cost us £500-£600 a month on PCP and still burn £200 of fuel. Monthly cost £7/800 a month - the economics still don't stack up.
The new Nissan Ariya does look interesting though - 300 miles range, SUV capability (we regularly take tents, bikes, garden rubbish etc to the tip) - this could be a game changer depending on the price (estimated £40k).
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road. To do so in the UK would be particularly painful because I think the proportion of the population here who care about preserving old cars is higher than anywhere else on earth. We have a rich heritage from the Blower Bentleys of the 30's, the Jag's of the 50's the Aston DB's of the sixties, the Healey's and MG's and TVR's of the 90's through to the McLaren's and Bentleys of today. Lets not flush all that down the toilet due to spurious environmental arguments.
Saxon
Man decides he doesn't like EVs (no idea why) and makes up huge list of "reasons" to back up his bias............My understanding is that traditional Land Rovers have the lowest environmental footprint of any car ever made simply because most of the environmental impact of any car is its manufacture and in the case of Land Rovers this impact is amortized over more years than any other vehicle simply because they are usually kept running for decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-livi...
So is my TVR Griffith actually less environmentally impacting than your Tesla? Possibly, - so I just hope the legislators recognise this fact and continue to permit me to drive and enjoy it long into the future.
My gut feel is that as more and more people buy and run EV's as dailies then we are going to see drop in the number of petrol pumps available. We might come to a point where petrolheads such as us end up keeping modest fuel stores at home just as we do for heating oil due to the scarcity of commercial filling stations. Perhaps these Pistonheads fuel store owners will find a mechanism to supply fuel to others who are touring in the area so if I take my TVR to Scotland I will fill up at a series of people's houses now operating as petrol filling stations for commercial gain. Their locations could be available as a paid subscription service database on a GPS. If the pumps are automated to take payment details in advance for the fuel dispensed then people could be filling up on my drive while I am at work. I see a need for those of us who care about ICE motoring to setup reciprocal arrangements such as this in the next 10-15 years, in short we may need to band together both to lobby for continued petrol supply, to make the environmental case for old vehicles and to avoid punitive taxes on them and to provide community fuelling options.
I've just driven to Bristol (140 miles or so) yesterday for a night with a mate and that journey simply isn't feasible without stopping in an electric Golf (140 miles) or electric Mini (124 miles). For my visit to Blackpool on Monday of 288 miles I'm beyond the range of all but the top Tesla's and it would require me to stop at least twice in an electric golf lengthening the journey from 4hrs 30 to probably 6 hours. I'm simply not currently attracted to the idea of standing in a motorway services catching Covid for 90 mins bored while my EV charges! A friend who was an early adopter of EV has a Tesla in which after 10 years the batteries are knackered. Cost to replace £10 000 but no incentive to do so because he would still be driving around in a tatty, rusty, scruffy 10 year old family car.
The only way I can see an EV being tempting right now is for a car (or citycar) that is only used for commuting under say 50 miles each way. Too many of my drives are 150 plus miles visiting friends or sightseeing for me to ever consider one. The driving experience is too soulless, the styling is too bland, the cost to purchase is too high, the range is inadequate (for my use case) and the environmental impact of making them and recycling the batteries is far too dubious. There's simply no logical reason why I would buy one right now. As for the financial benefits of saving on fuel even this financial benefit (for as long as it exists and isn't taxed by the Gov't) is highly dubious. We looked into replacing my wife's 10 yr old Mitsubishi Outlander with petrol V6 engine that does 22mpg. We worked out she spends £400 a month on fuel and the car costs under £1000 a year on servicing, there's no repayments so monthly cost £480 a month. The new Toyota RAV 4 EV we looked at would cost us £500-£600 a month on PCP and still burn £200 of fuel. Monthly cost £7/800 a month - the economics still don't stack up.
The new Nissan Ariya does look interesting though - 300 miles range, SUV capability (we regularly take tents, bikes, garden rubbish etc to the tip) - this could be a game changer depending on the price (estimated £40k).
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road. To do so in the UK would be particularly painful because I think the proportion of the population here who care about preserving old cars is higher than anywhere else on earth. We have a rich heritage from the Blower Bentleys of the 30's, the Jag's of the 50's the Aston DB's of the sixties, the Healey's and MG's and TVR's of the 90's through to the McLaren's and Bentleys of today. Lets not flush all that down the toilet due to spurious environmental arguments.
Saxon
Here's a thought, picking up on Saxon's scenario of Govt has by one means or another buggered up the retail petrol industry. There will still be a lot of big users who rely on diesel and have storage tanks, eg haulage, agricultural. Maybe petrolheads will become dieselheads, just to poke the bitterly biased wasp nest.
saxon said:
The truth is though the government is encouraging EV uptake and it doesn't matter that 50 000 of us on here prefer ICE, the market will decide ultimately, I just hope for our sakes that the Government don't try to tax us off the road.
The longer it takes for the mainstream to switch over to BEVs, the greater "incentives" will become, including increasing taxes on ICE vehicles one way or another. That's why IMO any real petrolhead should be desperately hoping for the mainstream market to go fully electric as soon as possible - the faster it happens, the less painful it will be for those of us who intend to run ICE cars indefinitely. After all it would be very optimistic to believe that any tax rises introduced now to push people towards EVs will be reversed when ICE cars are no longer a significant part of the market. timescale driven by fleets mainly i think. there are a few private buyers at the vanguard, but the switch accelerates once fleet buyers (user choosers, vans, or whatever) buy big. that switch will drive charging infrastructure, expose friends and family of main driver to EV and obviously feed the second user market 2/3 yrs later.
i also wish government would 'clean up' approach to hybrids. they're mostly a scam and it's silly having 2 drivetrains.
having an onboard generator is more sensible. all cars should be capable of more than 75 miles ev to qualify for any benefit.
i also wish government would 'clean up' approach to hybrids. they're mostly a scam and it's silly having 2 drivetrains.
having an onboard generator is more sensible. all cars should be capable of more than 75 miles ev to qualify for any benefit.
kambites said:
The longer it takes for the mainstream to switch over to BEVs, the greater "incentives" will become, including increasing taxes on ICE vehicles one way or another. That's why IMO any real petrolhead should be desperately hoping for the mainstream market to go fully electric as soon as possible - the faster it happens, the less painful it will be for those of us who intend to run ICE cars indefinitely. After all it would be very optimistic to believe that any tax rises introduced now to push people towards EVs will be reversed when ICE cars are no longer a significant part of the market.
It doesn't work like that.The fewer ICE cars the easier it is politically to rape the owner and play the virtue signalling game.
jsf said:
It doesn't work like that.
The fewer ICE cars the easier it is politically to rape the owner and play the virtue signalling game.
Illogical. Once ev is the majority the job is done. No benefit to ‘rape’ a diminishing revenue stream. No need to virtue signal either. It’ll be job done. Once sales are 50% ev (to pick a number) the switchover will be on a natural course to complete within a handful of years. The fewer ICE cars the easier it is politically to rape the owner and play the virtue signalling game.
jsf said:
kambites said:
The longer it takes for the mainstream to switch over to BEVs, the greater "incentives" will become, including increasing taxes on ICE vehicles one way or another. That's why IMO any real petrolhead should be desperately hoping for the mainstream market to go fully electric as soon as possible - the faster it happens, the less painful it will be for those of us who intend to run ICE cars indefinitely. After all it would be very optimistic to believe that any tax rises introduced now to push people towards EVs will be reversed when ICE cars are no longer a significant part of the market.
It doesn't work like that.The fewer ICE cars the easier it is politically to rape the owner and play the virtue signalling game.
jamoor said:
Petrol heads will drive an ev during the week as the cost to run it will be dramatically lower than your petrol car.
They will probably have a petrol weekender but will suffer from range anxiety as there will be nowhere to fill it up.
They will have their own fuel in the garage, legally or otherwise. The classic stuff will always have value, as they don’t make ‘em any more (chorus of good, good!). However, there will always be an interest as there is, as mentioned on here re steam trains, a demand for classic cars as a hobby. On the negative side for sellers, the humdrum mainstream stuff will decline in value. Yes, I can admire how nicely the doors shut on Rootes Group cars of the 60s - think Audax Range, or view the lovely “I drive a classic Steph U tube” as she appraises a Super Snipe, I like the two tone leather ,walnut veneer and chrome ringed Smiths gauges in a Riley 1.5, but would I shell out for one? So, yes, they will endure but there will be a price readjustment as they say. The real exotica and the best pre war coach built stuff - seldom driven, and often not nice to drive- will hold value as curiosities. Another poster has already made the pertinent remark about heavy industrial stuff still needing conventional fuel. They will probably have a petrol weekender but will suffer from range anxiety as there will be nowhere to fill it up.
Edited by Lester H on Saturday 18th July 23:01
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