Sold clocked car by franchise dealer
Discussion
ro250 said:
I thought the vast majority of replies we're constructive actually but just maybe not what the OP wanted to hear.
It would help to have answers to some of the follow ups like how was the mileage discrepancy discovered.
It's not the case. I knew I'd get a mixed response and I'm happy with most of the responses that I received. Of course there's a few posts I just rolled my eyes at.It would help to have answers to some of the follow ups like how was the mileage discrepancy discovered.
I don't need to verify many of the specific details to anyone here. Precisely how the mileage discrepancy was discovered is not relevant and I specifically don't want to go into too much unnecessary detail. It was discovered, the dealer eventually admitted fault, we're negotiating a solution.
Some people are fishing for the car model; I can see why they would be interested to know, but I cannot mention this, obviously.
A couple of people have obviously trawled through my posting history to try and find out what the car is. They're not correct.
A few people seem to want to put me under the interrogation lamp; I'm not going to interact with them.
As mentioned, I feel that my original post gave enough detail to get viewpoints from the sensible people of PistonHeads. I've reflected and my own view has changed a little. It's perhaps not easy to be balanced when you're initially pissed off at a situation.
I agree, the majority of replies were helpful and I'm appreciative of that - thanks.
Edited by Username... on Wednesday 15th July 09:46
Username... said:
It's not the case. I knew I'd get a mixed response and I'm happy with most of the responses that I received. Of course there's a few posts I just rolled my eyes at.
I don't need to verify many of the specific details to anyone here. Precisely how the mileage discrepancy was discovered is not relevant and I specifically don't want to go into too much unnecessary detail. It was discovered, the dealer eventually admitted fault, we're negotiating a solution.
Some people are fishing for the car model; I can see why they would be interested to know, but I cannot mention this, obviously.
A couple of people have obviously trawled through my posting history to try and find out what the car is. They're not correct.
A few people seem to want to put me under the interrogation lamp; I'm not going to interact with them.
As mentioned, I feel that my original post gave enough detail to get viewpoints from the sensible people of PistonHeads. I've reflected and my own view has changed a little. It's perhaps not easy to be balanced when you're initially pissed off at a situation.
I agree, the majority of replies were helpful and I'm appreciative of that - thanks.
Fair enough. I hope you get the right outcome.I don't need to verify many of the specific details to anyone here. Precisely how the mileage discrepancy was discovered is not relevant and I specifically don't want to go into too much unnecessary detail. It was discovered, the dealer eventually admitted fault, we're negotiating a solution.
Some people are fishing for the car model; I can see why they would be interested to know, but I cannot mention this, obviously.
A couple of people have obviously trawled through my posting history to try and find out what the car is. They're not correct.
A few people seem to want to put me under the interrogation lamp; I'm not going to interact with them.
As mentioned, I feel that my original post gave enough detail to get viewpoints from the sensible people of PistonHeads. I've reflected and my own view has changed a little. It's perhaps not easy to be balanced when you're initially pissed off at a situation.
I agree, the majority of replies were helpful and I'm appreciative of that - thanks.
Edited by Username... on Wednesday 15th July 09:46
I must admit, the bit I thought was a bit iffy by the dealer was the upselling as undoubtedly they've slipped a bit of profit into any new 'deals' they were offering you.
sealtt said:
If they will refund your original purchase price that sounds like a great outcome. I'd go for it and buy a new car, not difficult to arrange.
Yes this.Why do I get the feeling OP is pushing for a full refund plus a new car at heavy discount?
If you paid 18k for a 330d and then used it for 2 years and you're being offered 18k for that car back then bloody take it and suck up a little bit if inconvenience for the best deal of your life.
xjay1337 said:
sealtt said:
If they will refund your original purchase price that sounds like a great outcome. I'd go for it and buy a new car, not difficult to arrange.
Yes this.Why do I get the feeling OP is pushing for a full refund plus a new car at heavy discount?
If you paid 18k for a 330d and then used it for 2 years and you're being offered 18k for that car back then bloody take it and suck up a little bit if inconvenience for the best deal of your life.
Here's the original post, for context:
Username... said:
Hi All,
I don't know if this is the best place for this post, but hopefully Mods will kindly move it not.
I'll start by saying that, first of all, I am primarily looking for some some advice on this topic from those with some experience in legal matters, consumer rights, motor trading, or general experience in this situation.
I'll try to keep this short...
A couple of years ago I purchased a used vehicle from a franchise dealer. The car was 3 years old, low miles, and approved used - sold with a warranty and all the usual checks and guarantees.
Very recently it came to light that this vehicle has been clocked, with approximately 20k miles removed from the odometer. I was initially contacted by the dealer principle, who was very apologetic, told me "this never happens", etc, etc.
Obviously, the news was pretty shocking and I felt pretty devastated as I very much like my car and it took me over 6 months to find. However, my mind was put at rest when I was told that, although the dealer would need to take the car back, they would look to source a suitable replacement.
Sourcing a replacement, however, is not an easy task. It's not an exotic car, but it is a pretty uncommon prestige car with an unusual colour combination (leather & paint), has a high specification, and has a relatively powerful engine. Something that makes the search harder still is that it's a discontinued model. After several weeks of searching, the dealer has come up with nothing.
So, I was told that a solution could be to consider another model from the same brand. The sales manager made some suggestions of cars with similar options, colour combinations, and engines; I sat in a few and decided that it would be a reasonable alternative. The dealer even went to the trouble of getting some cars in from other dealers for me to test drive. The drive was good and I was happy.
[I should add at this point that at the start of this process, I made clear to the dealer on more than one occasion that I was not willing to put money into a replacement car. First of all, I'm not currently able to due to other commitments, secondly I shouldn't need to as it is the dealers error, thirdly I expect some recompense from the dealer which should cover any difference, lastly, it's their obligation to replace mine with a comparable replacement vehicle].
We got to the point where the sales manager started to source particular cars for me. One or two popped have popped up in their used stock which I sent across. I'm obviously keen to get this finalised so I can draw a line under what's becoming a fairly drawn out and time consuming experience.
However, the dealer came back to me and told me that the franchise group need to make the final decision. Almost week passes before I receive a call; I'm told that group will fund the replacement up to the value of £x - a value which is about £5-6k short of where we need to be to get me into the model of car which they suggested to me in the first place!
The sales manage has been my point of contact throughout. He understands and seems to sympathise with my situation. He realises that we can do very little with the budget offered (a budget which will put me a far lesser vehicle). The alternative is a refund, which may seem reasonable, but it leaves me without a car - an option I'm not interested in. As far as I'm concerned, they owe me a car.
I feel that I've been completely led on. First of all I'm told "don't worry, we're going to put you into the right car". Then, after the test drive, I'm told that "now we just need to find you the right one". Now I'm effectively being told "it's not an option".
Talk about pulling the rug out from under my feet. The process has been a complete mess; I feel that I've just been messed around from day one.
I'm not particularly interested shaming the brand publicly or taking them to court but I can imagine that this would be pretty embarrassing, if not damaging, to the brand if this got out - even at a local level. However, it does make me think that they should be taking this very seriously and it's in their interest to bury the problem. It just doesn't seem to me like they are.
I feel that I need to seek a little professional advice and should perhaps look to escalate this within the franchise group. I know who the CEO is and have his email address.
I wonder if anyone here can offer their insight and any advice? Any help would be very much appreciated.
I don't know if this is the best place for this post, but hopefully Mods will kindly move it not.
I'll start by saying that, first of all, I am primarily looking for some some advice on this topic from those with some experience in legal matters, consumer rights, motor trading, or general experience in this situation.
I'll try to keep this short...
A couple of years ago I purchased a used vehicle from a franchise dealer. The car was 3 years old, low miles, and approved used - sold with a warranty and all the usual checks and guarantees.
Very recently it came to light that this vehicle has been clocked, with approximately 20k miles removed from the odometer. I was initially contacted by the dealer principle, who was very apologetic, told me "this never happens", etc, etc.
Obviously, the news was pretty shocking and I felt pretty devastated as I very much like my car and it took me over 6 months to find. However, my mind was put at rest when I was told that, although the dealer would need to take the car back, they would look to source a suitable replacement.
Sourcing a replacement, however, is not an easy task. It's not an exotic car, but it is a pretty uncommon prestige car with an unusual colour combination (leather & paint), has a high specification, and has a relatively powerful engine. Something that makes the search harder still is that it's a discontinued model. After several weeks of searching, the dealer has come up with nothing.
So, I was told that a solution could be to consider another model from the same brand. The sales manager made some suggestions of cars with similar options, colour combinations, and engines; I sat in a few and decided that it would be a reasonable alternative. The dealer even went to the trouble of getting some cars in from other dealers for me to test drive. The drive was good and I was happy.
[I should add at this point that at the start of this process, I made clear to the dealer on more than one occasion that I was not willing to put money into a replacement car. First of all, I'm not currently able to due to other commitments, secondly I shouldn't need to as it is the dealers error, thirdly I expect some recompense from the dealer which should cover any difference, lastly, it's their obligation to replace mine with a comparable replacement vehicle].
We got to the point where the sales manager started to source particular cars for me. One or two popped have popped up in their used stock which I sent across. I'm obviously keen to get this finalised so I can draw a line under what's becoming a fairly drawn out and time consuming experience.
However, the dealer came back to me and told me that the franchise group need to make the final decision. Almost week passes before I receive a call; I'm told that group will fund the replacement up to the value of £x - a value which is about £5-6k short of where we need to be to get me into the model of car which they suggested to me in the first place!
The sales manage has been my point of contact throughout. He understands and seems to sympathise with my situation. He realises that we can do very little with the budget offered (a budget which will put me a far lesser vehicle). The alternative is a refund, which may seem reasonable, but it leaves me without a car - an option I'm not interested in. As far as I'm concerned, they owe me a car.
I feel that I've been completely led on. First of all I'm told "don't worry, we're going to put you into the right car". Then, after the test drive, I'm told that "now we just need to find you the right one". Now I'm effectively being told "it's not an option".
Talk about pulling the rug out from under my feet. The process has been a complete mess; I feel that I've just been messed around from day one.
I'm not particularly interested shaming the brand publicly or taking them to court but I can imagine that this would be pretty embarrassing, if not damaging, to the brand if this got out - even at a local level. However, it does make me think that they should be taking this very seriously and it's in their interest to bury the problem. It just doesn't seem to me like they are.
I feel that I need to seek a little professional advice and should perhaps look to escalate this within the franchise group. I know who the CEO is and have his email address.
I wonder if anyone here can offer their insight and any advice? Any help would be very much appreciated.
A late update for anyone who's interested.
It's been a couple of months since this was resolved and, I must say, hats off to the dealer for sorting it out.
At first the dealer started to discuss fair trade in values, based on an un-clocked car of my type. I just don't think the mid-level manager really appreciated the seriousness of the matter, so I explained this clearly to him. I then dealt with the dealer principle, who was far more accommodating.
Essentially, they agreed to refund me the full amount paid. Not a bad option, considering I'd effectively have had free use of the car for over 2 years. The downside is that this left me without a car. I didn't want to be left in this situation because I knew it would take time to find a replacement.
After a little friendly negotiation, they agreed to put in £5k towards a replacement on top of the original amount spent - providing I buy through them. I expect that they were selling me a car at cost & perhaps footing a little more. In the meantime I could keep my car until a replacement was found. This was a generous offer which I happily took them up on. Long story short, I picked up a great car last month and I'm very happy with the outcome.
Despite how well this has been handled, I don't wish to name the dealer or brand because I'd still consider it naming and shaming.
I used the PH's forum to draw on other peoples experience. I also wanted to understand what people generally considered to be a fair outcome for myself, without being unduly harsh on the dealer and expecting too much. The result goes to show that many people who commented on my post would've come up significantly short. Whereas, I considered my inconvenience, the negligent sales practice, a broken law, and taking my much liked car away from me - should result in reasonable recompense.
I wasn't sure if I shouldn't have posted in PH's. Perhaps I was a little hot-headed and emotional with my language, I don't know, but this forum seems to attract a sarcastic bunch, who, at best, all too easily get the wrong end of the stick and, at worst, enjoy being stupidly confrontational.
Anyway, to those who made honest and helpful contributions - thanks again.
It's been a couple of months since this was resolved and, I must say, hats off to the dealer for sorting it out.
At first the dealer started to discuss fair trade in values, based on an un-clocked car of my type. I just don't think the mid-level manager really appreciated the seriousness of the matter, so I explained this clearly to him. I then dealt with the dealer principle, who was far more accommodating.
Essentially, they agreed to refund me the full amount paid. Not a bad option, considering I'd effectively have had free use of the car for over 2 years. The downside is that this left me without a car. I didn't want to be left in this situation because I knew it would take time to find a replacement.
After a little friendly negotiation, they agreed to put in £5k towards a replacement on top of the original amount spent - providing I buy through them. I expect that they were selling me a car at cost & perhaps footing a little more. In the meantime I could keep my car until a replacement was found. This was a generous offer which I happily took them up on. Long story short, I picked up a great car last month and I'm very happy with the outcome.
Despite how well this has been handled, I don't wish to name the dealer or brand because I'd still consider it naming and shaming.
I used the PH's forum to draw on other peoples experience. I also wanted to understand what people generally considered to be a fair outcome for myself, without being unduly harsh on the dealer and expecting too much. The result goes to show that many people who commented on my post would've come up significantly short. Whereas, I considered my inconvenience, the negligent sales practice, a broken law, and taking my much liked car away from me - should result in reasonable recompense.
I wasn't sure if I shouldn't have posted in PH's. Perhaps I was a little hot-headed and emotional with my language, I don't know, but this forum seems to attract a sarcastic bunch, who, at best, all too easily get the wrong end of the stick and, at worst, enjoy being stupidly confrontational.
Anyway, to those who made honest and helpful contributions - thanks again.
Edited by RandomUser on Monday 9th November 23:43
Just read through this - very interesting. Was this a very high value car by chance? You said it was three years old when you go tit two years ago - so assuming its not a case of "we sold it to you for £20k but with the extra 20,000 miles it should have been £17k so here is £k in compensation?
I don't under stand why you seem to have been forced to hand the car back - if you liked it why did you not simply negotiate a payment for the difference in value to reflect its true mileage as was suggested further back (assuming that the odometer can be corrected of course)?
The fact that you were given £5k towards a new car is suggesting this was not a run of the mill three year old car. There is another thread running here recently about a clocked Rolls Royce...
I don't under stand why you seem to have been forced to hand the car back - if you liked it why did you not simply negotiate a payment for the difference in value to reflect its true mileage as was suggested further back (assuming that the odometer can be corrected of course)?
The fact that you were given £5k towards a new car is suggesting this was not a run of the mill three year old car. There is another thread running here recently about a clocked Rolls Royce...
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