Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 17]
Discussion
stickleback123 said:
That C216 CL500 looks great value in the current market and the seller seems to be a proper PHer, but looking at the pics it's hard not to be struck at how very poor the design and detailing is on modern Mercs. Look at this pic from the cars unhappiest angle:
Did the people who designed the boot ever meet or have any interaction whatsoever with the people who designed the rest of the car? None of the lines or shapes of the boot line bare the slightest relationship to the shape of the lights, it has that stupid line across the back that even the most recent models have that never bears any relationship to other shapes and lines, and the downward fold of the boot lid has a pronounced curve that just disappears into the wing like the boot is from a different car.
I am not sure I understood all of your points, but a thought was did the boot lid of Bangle's E63 7 Series make such design incoherence more acceptable. Did the people who designed the boot ever meet or have any interaction whatsoever with the people who designed the rest of the car? None of the lines or shapes of the boot line bare the slightest relationship to the shape of the lights, it has that stupid line across the back that even the most recent models have that never bears any relationship to other shapes and lines, and the downward fold of the boot lid has a pronounced curve that just disappears into the wing like the boot is from a different car.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Many thanks 
SpeckledJim said:
Prinny said:
I’m sure I’ve seen that LS before on here? Distinctive background. I’m sure it’s fine, but it’s a no from me for that front plate mounting alone! Aargh!
In other news, SL woes. SL1 has had bugger all use this year, and has thrown up a new foible with a failure to proceed today. Cold start is fine, revs cleanly, no hesitation or issues in the slightest. After around 6/7 minutes, approximately when up to temperature on the water temp gauge, it becomes relucant to rev, leading eventually to a stall and cutout a minute later. Turning the key to restart results in nothing, then an almighty pop/backfire. Come back to it a few hours later and the cold start is again fine, getting the car back home, but running rough the last minute before stalling again.
Thoughts are that it can’t be spark, as it runs cleanly when cold (but will check dizzys and leads tomorrow). Therefore can only be fuel, and given it’s age & recent lack of use, I’m diagnosing a surplus of crud in the fuel lines/tank/filter which settles under no pressure (i.e. off), but is picked up and blocks the fuel line after a few minutes.
Logic tells me it can’t be at the injectors/head, as it starts on the key when cold and runs 100% fine. New fuel filter ordered. Am I missing something obvious?
(oh, and new rear brakes too - pushing an SL to the roadside when the OSR is most definitely binding in one spot is bloody hard work!). Having to walk home in typical Manchester weather did not help either.
The M6 had it’s annual service the other day, and 12months RFL. The 7’s RFL is the end of this month & it’s booked in with the man in December to do the valley pipe & all coolant hoses/water pump (I can’t find a leak anywhere, but there is one, and if, as planned currently, it’s coming to CY with me, a coolant system refresh & 85 degree stat isn’t a bad idea). SL2’s CY RFL is due at the end of the month too. November & December are turning out to be pretty damn expensive in bargeland.
Suggestion based on nothing more than a hunch:In other news, SL woes. SL1 has had bugger all use this year, and has thrown up a new foible with a failure to proceed today. Cold start is fine, revs cleanly, no hesitation or issues in the slightest. After around 6/7 minutes, approximately when up to temperature on the water temp gauge, it becomes relucant to rev, leading eventually to a stall and cutout a minute later. Turning the key to restart results in nothing, then an almighty pop/backfire. Come back to it a few hours later and the cold start is again fine, getting the car back home, but running rough the last minute before stalling again.
Thoughts are that it can’t be spark, as it runs cleanly when cold (but will check dizzys and leads tomorrow). Therefore can only be fuel, and given it’s age & recent lack of use, I’m diagnosing a surplus of crud in the fuel lines/tank/filter which settles under no pressure (i.e. off), but is picked up and blocks the fuel line after a few minutes.
Logic tells me it can’t be at the injectors/head, as it starts on the key when cold and runs 100% fine. New fuel filter ordered. Am I missing something obvious?
(oh, and new rear brakes too - pushing an SL to the roadside when the OSR is most definitely binding in one spot is bloody hard work!). Having to walk home in typical Manchester weather did not help either.
The M6 had it’s annual service the other day, and 12months RFL. The 7’s RFL is the end of this month & it’s booked in with the man in December to do the valley pipe & all coolant hoses/water pump (I can’t find a leak anywhere, but there is one, and if, as planned currently, it’s coming to CY with me, a coolant system refresh & 85 degree stat isn’t a bad idea). SL2’s CY RFL is due at the end of the month too. November & December are turning out to be pretty damn expensive in bargeland.
The crank position sensor works when it's cold, but doesn't when it's hot.
Without a doubt, yes the BMW is miles better (IMHO). You might not like the theme of the BMW but it is competently and cohesively applied.
Look how all the surfaces and shapes blend into each other with no massive discontinuities between panels, how the shape of the rear lights fits in with the other shapes and forms around it in the way the Mercedes just doesn't, the boot flows into the roofline properly and the hoffmeister kink looks great as always. It's not covered with lazily applied and jarring shutlines like everything Mercedes have made for years either. The C216 may look superficially to be following a similar theme with the surfacing but it's an absolute dogs breakfast compared to the BMW.
The boot of the much maligned E65 is also a lot better than the W221 despite a similar theme; the lines and surfacing from the body carry on into the bootlid so that despite the shutline it very much looks like part of the car, whereas with the W221 looks far more "stuck on" because of the way the shutline falls. You can see what they were trying to achieve, and they were far more successful on the Maybach, but the shutline spoils it.
The more time you spend looking at them the worse it gets too. The nicest thing I can say about my W221 is that it has a great wedgey shape going on, although the way the beltline sinks below the bonnet line looks s
t, and the shape of the DLO is lovely. This makes the car look a lot more dynamic and "faster" than the E65 which is actually quite conservative and upright underneath the surfacing and detail.Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 19th November 13:36
tog said:
W00DY said:
If that CL doesn't seem like a risky enough proposition...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Maserati-Quattropo...
It'd at least make a lovely driveway ornament.
A friend of mine had a press car on test from Maserati when they were new, and it didn't even work then! I think they had to recover it twice.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Maserati-Quattropo...
It'd at least make a lovely driveway ornament.
Agreed, CPS on that era Merc fail and manifest with a no work when hot syndrome. Other spidey sense is wiring (coil?) high impedance when hot. I guess would ideally wana get it plugged in rather than guessing at parts though...
Pre-1996 Mercedes were good (non water based) paint, then got even more worse from about 2000-on.
The problem with that W210 face lift is it's the generation cdi engine (om613?) which are a bit made of cheese, piezo (iirc) injectors fail which are mucho money. I guess if it runs well its fully shedable
Pre-1996 Mercedes were good (non water based) paint, then got even more worse from about 2000-on.
The problem with that W210 face lift is it's the generation cdi engine (om613?) which are a bit made of cheese, piezo (iirc) injectors fail which are mucho money. I guess if it runs well its fully shedable
Crook said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Many thanks Crook said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Many thanks They sorted the roof out on my SL500 r230 in the summer.
Recommended.
SpeckledJim said:
JF87 said:
Same with my 211. But as somebody has mentioned, a faulty CPS doesn't seem to stop the car once it's running.
Mine did, on a V6 petrol S211. Started fine, got warm, conked out, wouldn't start again until it had cooled down again. Repeat.Simple and cheap fix, albeit a bit of a bugger to get to, low down on the back of the engine.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I like that more than I was expecting to.
The arm rest must be a replacement, surely? Otherwise a proper colour mis-match.
No that's the Sport trim,, so black dash, door cappings and armrest. The fact that it looks slightly wonky is no indication of anything untoward either.The arm rest must be a replacement, surely? Otherwise a proper colour mis-match.
stickleback123 said:
The more time you spend looking at them the worse it gets too. The nicest thing I can say about my W221 is that it has a great wedgey shape going on, although the way the beltline sinks below the bonnet line looks s
t, and the shape of the DLO is lovely. This makes the car look a lot more dynamic and "faster" than the E65 which is actually quite conservative and upright underneath the surfacing and detail. They work on the TT, but I look at stuff like the Juke, which I like, and the MiTo which I like less due to the wheelarches, and I think the bulbous wheelarch styling takes up so much footprint that doesn't correspond to useable interior space. Styling takes up road space that offers no benefit to what you can get in the cabin with regards to people and luggage.
I'd consider owning a Juke or a MiTo but the logical part of me would struggle with the bodywork styling taking up so much road that does equate to useable space. The Giulietta looks like it is trying too hard but I don't associate it with bulbous wheelarches like the MiTo.
Looking at the W221 perhaps there's a side impact benefit from the flanks of the body being inset, further back from the harder parts of the structure like wheels and hubs and suspension mounts?
Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:
Agreed, CPS on that era Merc fail and manifest with a no work when hot syndrome. Other spidey sense is wiring (coil?) high impedance when hot. I guess would ideally wana get it plugged in rather than guessing at parts though...
Pre-1996 Mercedes were good (non water based) paint, then got even more worse from about 2000-on.
The problem with that W210 face lift is it's the generation cdi engine (om613?) which are a bit made of cheese, piezo (iirc) injectors fail which are mucho money. I guess if it runs well its fully shedable
Is that the "black death" thing that people refer to?Pre-1996 Mercedes were good (non water based) paint, then got even more worse from about 2000-on.
The problem with that W210 face lift is it's the generation cdi engine (om613?) which are a bit made of cheese, piezo (iirc) injectors fail which are mucho money. I guess if it runs well its fully shedable
I've got a receipt for fixed injectors on mine.
Thanks for all the kind words about the S210, all the other ones I've seen (including the one of posted on thee last page, are being advertised around the £2k mark, which I think is a bit juicy.
Mine is knackered and very rusty but it was dirt cheap.
stickleback123 said:
That C216 CL500 looks great value in the current market and the seller seems to be a proper PHer, but looking at the pics it's hard not to be struck at how very poor the design and detailing is on modern Mercs. Look at this pic from the cars unhappiest angle:
Did the people who designed the boot ever meet or have any interaction whatsoever with the people who designed the rest of the car? None of the lines or shapes of the boot line bare the slightest relationship to the shape of the lights, it has that stupid line across the back that even the most recent models have that never bears any relationship to other shapes and lines, and the downward fold of the boot lid has a pronounced curve that just disappears into the wing like the boot is from a different car.
Compare to the much better C215 with the nice little lip around the edge of the boot that follows into the rear wings, the cut of the bumper to wing interface matching up nicely with the shape of the lights, and the shape of the boot and rear wings actually matching
And finally the C140, which is a far more rational and calm design but everything works together perfectly, the more you look at it the better it gets. Can anyone imagine 21st century MB going to the cost of that thin piece of the rear wing pressing between the light and the boot lid rather than just running the lamp right up to the shutline? They used to do that under the grille at the front too, but now it's just a wobbly plastic thing like you'd get on a Kia.
I won't even look at the newer models in case I make any of you feel sick. It's inexplicable to me that a company with the resources of M-B produces so many amateurish and lazy designs, having to rely entirely on eye catching tinsel to distract from the ineptitude of the basic design. As superb a machine as my W221 is there is no pleasure to be had from looking at it and absorbing the design because it's, basically, rubbish.
Just to say I have really enjoyed your critique here. As it happens I agree, but reading your comments help me understand why I agree. Thanks !Did the people who designed the boot ever meet or have any interaction whatsoever with the people who designed the rest of the car? None of the lines or shapes of the boot line bare the slightest relationship to the shape of the lights, it has that stupid line across the back that even the most recent models have that never bears any relationship to other shapes and lines, and the downward fold of the boot lid has a pronounced curve that just disappears into the wing like the boot is from a different car.
Compare to the much better C215 with the nice little lip around the edge of the boot that follows into the rear wings, the cut of the bumper to wing interface matching up nicely with the shape of the lights, and the shape of the boot and rear wings actually matching
And finally the C140, which is a far more rational and calm design but everything works together perfectly, the more you look at it the better it gets. Can anyone imagine 21st century MB going to the cost of that thin piece of the rear wing pressing between the light and the boot lid rather than just running the lamp right up to the shutline? They used to do that under the grille at the front too, but now it's just a wobbly plastic thing like you'd get on a Kia.
I won't even look at the newer models in case I make any of you feel sick. It's inexplicable to me that a company with the resources of M-B produces so many amateurish and lazy designs, having to rely entirely on eye catching tinsel to distract from the ineptitude of the basic design. As superb a machine as my W221 is there is no pleasure to be had from looking at it and absorbing the design because it's, basically, rubbish.
Edited by stickleback123 on Thursday 19th November 10:04
carinaman said:
W221 are not on my radar but I have a bit of a problem with Audi TT style comedy wheelarches. Neither of those two Bangle designs have those wide Audi TT style comedy wheelarches.
They work on the TT, but I look at stuff like the Juke, which I like, and the MiTo which I like less due to the wheelarches, and I think the bulbous wheelarch styling takes up so much footprint that doesn't correspond to useable interior space. Styling takes up road space that offers no benefit to what you can get in the cabin with regards to people and luggage.
I'd consider owning a Juke or a MiTo but the logical part of me would struggle with the bodywork styling taking up so much road that does equate to useable space. The Giulietta looks like it is trying too hard but I don't associate it with bulbous wheelarches like the MiTo.
Looking at the W221 perhaps there's a side impact benefit from the flanks of the body being inset, further back from the harder parts of the structure like wheels and hubs and suspension mounts?
There is a technical term for those wheelarches on the W221 that I think you're looking for:They work on the TT, but I look at stuff like the Juke, which I like, and the MiTo which I like less due to the wheelarches, and I think the bulbous wheelarch styling takes up so much footprint that doesn't correspond to useable interior space. Styling takes up road space that offers no benefit to what you can get in the cabin with regards to people and luggage.
I'd consider owning a Juke or a MiTo but the logical part of me would struggle with the bodywork styling taking up so much road that does equate to useable space. The Giulietta looks like it is trying too hard but I don't associate it with bulbous wheelarches like the MiTo.
Looking at the W221 perhaps there's a side impact benefit from the flanks of the body being inset, further back from the harder parts of the structure like wheels and hubs and suspension mounts?
Embarrasingly naff
Another "what on earth were they thinking" feature, but nothing compared to the "pontoon" arches on the W212.
The W140 and Coupe version are too wide. Weren't subsequent equivalents narrower?
The W140 was reworked as the roof was deemed too low. If you look a W140 from side on it looks like a W124 that's had a reverse roof chop. The glasshouse looks very tall. It looks as deep as the flanks. Some marketing gurus missed out on an opportunity to pillage the back catalogue and say the tall glasshouse of the W140 and C140 were a nod to the pagoda roofed SL?
The W140 was reworked as the roof was deemed too low. If you look a W140 from side on it looks like a W124 that's had a reverse roof chop. The glasshouse looks very tall. It looks as deep as the flanks. Some marketing gurus missed out on an opportunity to pillage the back catalogue and say the tall glasshouse of the W140 and C140 were a nod to the pagoda roofed SL?
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 19th November 15:00
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff