RE: £30k future classics | Six of the Best
Discussion
cars that will go up in value, my list would be
Ultima Sport & Spyder - probably the performance bargain for under 30k and extremely rare.
Aston Martin v8 Vantage - Astons typically bottom out then start climbing.
Evora - Like all Lotus cars they hold value and will bottom out before climbing, but climb they will due to rarity, just like the elise and exige.
AC 3000ME - only now starting to be appreciated and slowly climbing in value.
Aston Martin DB9 - It is an Aston it will eventually start climbing in value.
I do not think the Z4M will go up in value any time soon at least, just like the boxter and the z3 they will end up being dirt cheap. Simply to many on the road but right now they are one of the best performance cars to buy for the money.
Ultima Sport & Spyder - probably the performance bargain for under 30k and extremely rare.
Aston Martin v8 Vantage - Astons typically bottom out then start climbing.
Evora - Like all Lotus cars they hold value and will bottom out before climbing, but climb they will due to rarity, just like the elise and exige.
AC 3000ME - only now starting to be appreciated and slowly climbing in value.
Aston Martin DB9 - It is an Aston it will eventually start climbing in value.
I do not think the Z4M will go up in value any time soon at least, just like the boxter and the z3 they will end up being dirt cheap. Simply to many on the road but right now they are one of the best performance cars to buy for the money.
I personally doubt that "kit cars" such as the Ultima will see significant rises in value. Even with all the recent rises in classic car values and given all the many kit cars that existed in their heyday of the 60s and 70s when they escaped purchase tax, I can't think of any that have shown major appreciation. As I see it, the issues are (a) the build quality is by definition 'amateur' and thus highly variable, and (b) most kit cars are so small-scale that they don't make enough impact to build a brand and become sufficiently well-known for people to seek them out in decades to come (although Ultima has a stronger brand than most). I don't doubt that a £30k Ultima is a performance bargain, I just wouldn't anticipate it being an investment on top.
samoht said:
I personally doubt that "kit cars" such as the Ultima will see significant rises in value. Even with all the recent rises in classic car values and given all the many kit cars that existed in their heyday of the 60s and 70s when they escaped purchase tax, I can't think of any that have shown major appreciation. As I see it, the issues are (a) the build quality is by definition 'amateur' and thus highly variable, and (b) most kit cars are so small-scale that they don't make enough impact to build a brand and become sufficiently well-known for people to seek them out in decades to come (although Ultima has a stronger brand than most). I don't doubt that a £30k Ultima is a performance bargain, I just wouldn't anticipate it being an investment on top.
lotus elite, elan and europa were all kit cars and they are doing rather well. The Ultima can be bought as a turn key or a kit car but the parts are all from Ultima except the engine and transmission which you source yourself.lotuslover69 said:
cars that will go up in value, my list would be
Ultima Sport & Spyder - probably the performance bargain for under 30k and extremely rare.
Aston Martin v8 Vantage - Astons typically bottom out then start climbing.
Evora - Like all Lotus cars they hold value and will bottom out before climbing, but climb they will due to rarity, just like the elise and exige.
AC 3000ME - only now starting to be appreciated and slowly climbing in value.
Aston Martin DB9 - It is an Aston it will eventually start climbing in value.
I do not think the Z4M will go up in value any time soon at least, just like the boxter and the z3 they will end up being dirt cheap. Simply to many on the road but right now they are one of the best performance cars to buy for the money.
I don't know much about the cars you have listed, but a Z4 owner did some detailed research getting all the VINs for UK registered 3.0Si and M cars that indicated only 2,189 three litre Coupes were registered in the UK. Ultima Sport & Spyder - probably the performance bargain for under 30k and extremely rare.
Aston Martin v8 Vantage - Astons typically bottom out then start climbing.
Evora - Like all Lotus cars they hold value and will bottom out before climbing, but climb they will due to rarity, just like the elise and exige.
AC 3000ME - only now starting to be appreciated and slowly climbing in value.
Aston Martin DB9 - It is an Aston it will eventually start climbing in value.
I do not think the Z4M will go up in value any time soon at least, just like the boxter and the z3 they will end up being dirt cheap. Simply to many on the road but right now they are one of the best performance cars to buy for the money.
And just 1,206 Z4Ms - 614 Roadsters and 592 Coupes. Less than 600 seems pretty uncommon to me!
At those sort of numbers I can't see them ever being dirt cheap (hopefully!) but only time will tell.
Anyway following another post about photos of them from the front(ish) here is mine, just because why not:-
samoht said:
He's certainly trying to sell it. 
The MK1 Focus RS has all the right ingredients for being a future classic.
- Low volume 4501 in total, 2100 approx to the UK
- Lots of unique and specialist parts used
- Built on a separate line from main production
- RS badge
- First Focus RS
- beautiful exterior design
It was also one of the first of the modern generation of hot hatches with trick diffs and due to the mixed reviews in the press at the time its remembered for it despite there actually being quite a few others before it. In its class (200bhp / FWD) it was also probably the fastest point to point.
Ignoring the example in the story I find it interesting that they aren't worth more than they currently are.
For example you can find a very nice one for somewhere between 12-16k, which to put it into perspective is more than £10k less than a new fiesta ST. Admittedly that is probably due to the fact that the markets for them are very different and the available finance models are also different, but even still £12k doesn't buy you much these days yet it will buy you one of these.
In my opinion the MK1 Focus RS is still one of the best value for money "appreciating classics" and based on the limited numbers I don't think they are near their peak. However I could be wrong and there just isn't the market for them that there is for other similar cars? Then again the people who lusted after them in their teens are only in their 30s at the moment so perhaps in another 5-10 years when life and family get less expensive for that generation the price will rise again, its very difficult to predict.
The uncertainty over the future of ICEd cars could mean the classic car bubble bursts but I don't think it will, they will move from everyday transport sure but there will still be petrol powered cars on the roads.
For the record here is mine:
- Low volume 4501 in total, 2100 approx to the UK
- Lots of unique and specialist parts used
- Built on a separate line from main production
- RS badge
- First Focus RS
- beautiful exterior design
It was also one of the first of the modern generation of hot hatches with trick diffs and due to the mixed reviews in the press at the time its remembered for it despite there actually being quite a few others before it. In its class (200bhp / FWD) it was also probably the fastest point to point.
Ignoring the example in the story I find it interesting that they aren't worth more than they currently are.
For example you can find a very nice one for somewhere between 12-16k, which to put it into perspective is more than £10k less than a new fiesta ST. Admittedly that is probably due to the fact that the markets for them are very different and the available finance models are also different, but even still £12k doesn't buy you much these days yet it will buy you one of these.
In my opinion the MK1 Focus RS is still one of the best value for money "appreciating classics" and based on the limited numbers I don't think they are near their peak. However I could be wrong and there just isn't the market for them that there is for other similar cars? Then again the people who lusted after them in their teens are only in their 30s at the moment so perhaps in another 5-10 years when life and family get less expensive for that generation the price will rise again, its very difficult to predict.
The uncertainty over the future of ICEd cars could mean the classic car bubble bursts but I don't think it will, they will move from everyday transport sure but there will still be petrol powered cars on the roads.
For the record here is mine:
ash73 said:
Surely it will burst, there will be collectors for very special examples but most of the tat will be worthless, imho.
In 20 years EVs should be far superior to ICE.
How many people own horses and carts?
Horse and carts is a bad analogy, but how many people own horses and spend small fortunes on them is probably quite a frightening number. In 20 years EVs should be far superior to ICE.
How many people own horses and carts?
Also people who own horses very rarely have just the one, they have the original horse that they used to ride but is now too old and decrepit but is part of the family and therefore can't be made into a tesco lasagna. They have the little bad tempered shetland pony that was originally acquired to keep the original horse company, aka the banter horse that eats more than the others and costs the same to accommodate despite being too small and bad tempered to do anything with. They have the horse they bought to replace the original horse for riding and finally they have the bigger and faster horse that most of the time just tries to kill them or failing that itself.
edit: and thats the number before you decide that one of them should have a baby horse
I am just hoping when the time comes I can justify as many cars as horsey people can horses
Problem with EV is it is flawed. Kind of like the london Pedway system which was great in theory but in practise was not invested into correctly and ignored the human element. EV require a huge investment from the government. We are talking charging stations in almost all parking spots nationwide. A huge increase in powerstations. Massive taxation on electricity or giant increase in road taxation. You cannot have everyone driving electric cars paying hardly and road tax and no taxation on fuel.
I think it can be done but our government wont do it any time soon. It would be easier to completely overhaul our railway system than to switch almost entirely to EV.
I think it can be done but our government wont do it any time soon. It would be easier to completely overhaul our railway system than to switch almost entirely to EV.
lotuslover69 said:
Problem with EV is it is flawed. Kind of like the london Pedway system which was great in theory but in practise was not invested into correctly and ignored the human element. EV require a huge investment from the government. We are talking charging stations in almost all parking spots nationwide. A huge increase in powerstations. Massive taxation on electricity or giant increase in road taxation. You cannot have everyone driving electric cars paying hardly and road tax and no taxation on fuel.
I think it can be done but our government wont do it any time soon. It would be easier to completely overhaul our railway system than to switch almost entirely to EV.
I don't disagree with how good the likes of Teslas are but they are pretty inconvenient, I honestly think they will be an intermediate step between petrol / diesel and the actual solution. I think it can be done but our government wont do it any time soon. It would be easier to completely overhaul our railway system than to switch almost entirely to EV.
No one likes taking a step backwards and not being able to fill it up in 2 minutes is a major step backwards in my opinion.
Also as you say where are we getting all the extra electricity needed to charge all these EVs, ah yeah that's right we are going to burn oil / gas to get it.
MK1RS Bruce said:
Horse and carts is a bad analogy, but how many people own horses and spend small fortunes on them is probably quite a frightening number.
Also people who own horses very rarely have just the one, they have the original horse that they used to ride but is now too old and decrepit but is part of the family and therefore can't be made into a tesco lasagna. They have the little bad tempered shetland pony that was originally acquired to keep the original horse company, aka the banter horse that eats more than the others and costs the same to accommodate despite being too small and bad tempered to do anything with. They have the horse they bought to replace the original horse for riding and finally they have the bigger and faster horse that most of the time just tries to kill them or failing that itself.
edit: and thats the number before you decide that one of them should have a baby horse
I am just hoping when the time comes I can justify as many cars as horsey people can horses
Have you met my mate Dave's missus?Also people who own horses very rarely have just the one, they have the original horse that they used to ride but is now too old and decrepit but is part of the family and therefore can't be made into a tesco lasagna. They have the little bad tempered shetland pony that was originally acquired to keep the original horse company, aka the banter horse that eats more than the others and costs the same to accommodate despite being too small and bad tempered to do anything with. They have the horse they bought to replace the original horse for riding and finally they have the bigger and faster horse that most of the time just tries to kill them or failing that itself.
edit: and thats the number before you decide that one of them should have a baby horse
I am just hoping when the time comes I can justify as many cars as horsey people can horses
Fastchas said:
MK1RS Bruce said:
Horse and carts is a bad analogy, but how many people own horses and spend small fortunes on them is probably quite a frightening number.
Also people who own horses very rarely have just the one, they have the original horse that they used to ride but is now too old and decrepit but is part of the family and therefore can't be made into a tesco lasagna. They have the little bad tempered shetland pony that was originally acquired to keep the original horse company, aka the banter horse that eats more than the others and costs the same to accommodate despite being too small and bad tempered to do anything with. They have the horse they bought to replace the original horse for riding and finally they have the bigger and faster horse that most of the time just tries to kill them or failing that itself.
edit: and thats the number before you decide that one of them should have a baby horse
I am just hoping when the time comes I can justify as many cars as horsey people can horses
Have you met my mate Dave's missus?Also people who own horses very rarely have just the one, they have the original horse that they used to ride but is now too old and decrepit but is part of the family and therefore can't be made into a tesco lasagna. They have the little bad tempered shetland pony that was originally acquired to keep the original horse company, aka the banter horse that eats more than the others and costs the same to accommodate despite being too small and bad tempered to do anything with. They have the horse they bought to replace the original horse for riding and finally they have the bigger and faster horse that most of the time just tries to kill them or failing that itself.
edit: and thats the number before you decide that one of them should have a baby horse
I am just hoping when the time comes I can justify as many cars as horsey people can horses
Horsey People are the most ridiculous of all the hobbyist people.
I don't mind tho as their ridiculousness makes anything I do easier to justify in comparison
Quadcamboy said:
samoht said:
He's certainly trying to sell it. 
bless him. The Z4 coupe are a good looking car and why they will be regarded as classics
I don't know what other peoples circumstances are at the moment & thankfully, i live in the S.East and i am still working..although the future is uncertain for me with a downsize in demand & most projects being shelved.
However; Most of my friends and colleagues (all well-paid "office / professional" sorts) have either been put on furlough, laid off or having their workforce drastically reduced by upto 2/3rd's or more.
Despite a boost (late) this year in car sales, due to no-one being able to buy anything during lock-down, accrued money as no one going on holiday & reduced travelling costs as most of us were WFM + then pent-up demand over supply, since - which has meant (like estate agents) there is currently a mini-boom...
I cannot help wondering what will next year be like?...
And i personally think we will be going through a late 1980's "crash/depression" with very low demand for any cars, because most people will either be selling to raise cash OR not buying because their number 1 priority (apart from seeking new employment) is to just to keep the roof over their head.
Sorry to be such a doom-merchant....But I do remember the last big crash in the late 80's, when a lot of classics/future classics all crashed drastically in value.
However; Most of my friends and colleagues (all well-paid "office / professional" sorts) have either been put on furlough, laid off or having their workforce drastically reduced by upto 2/3rd's or more.
Despite a boost (late) this year in car sales, due to no-one being able to buy anything during lock-down, accrued money as no one going on holiday & reduced travelling costs as most of us were WFM + then pent-up demand over supply, since - which has meant (like estate agents) there is currently a mini-boom...
I cannot help wondering what will next year be like?...
And i personally think we will be going through a late 1980's "crash/depression" with very low demand for any cars, because most people will either be selling to raise cash OR not buying because their number 1 priority (apart from seeking new employment) is to just to keep the roof over their head.
Sorry to be such a doom-merchant....But I do remember the last big crash in the late 80's, when a lot of classics/future classics all crashed drastically in value.
hyphen said:
Quadcamboy said:
samoht said:
He's certainly trying to sell it. bless him. The Z4 coupe are a good looking car and why they will be regarded as classics
SidewaysSi said:
hyphen said:
Quadcamboy said:
samoht said:
He's certainly trying to sell it. bless him. The Z4 coupe are a good looking car and why they will be regarded as classics
W12AAM said:
I don't know what other peoples circumstances are at the moment & thankfully, i live in the S.East and i am still working..although the future is uncertain for me with a downsize in demand & most projects being shelved.
However; Most of my friends and colleagues (all well-paid "office / professional" sorts) have either been put on furlough, laid off or having their workforce drastically reduced by upto 2/3rd's or more.
Despite a boost (late) this year in car sales, due to no-one being able to buy anything during lock-down, accrued money as no one going on holiday & reduced travelling costs as most of us were WFM + then pent-up demand over supply, since - which has meant (like estate agents) there is currently a mini-boom...
I cannot help wondering what will next year be like?...
And i personally think we will be going through a late 1980's "crash/depression" with very low demand for any cars, because most people will either be selling to raise cash OR not buying because their number 1 priority (apart from seeking new employment) is to just to keep the roof over their head.
Sorry to be such a doom-merchant....But I do remember the last big crash in the late 80's, when a lot of classics/future classics all crashed drastically in value.
Quite agree, the boom in classic car prices is driven largely by cheap finance and a lack of return elsewhere on money.However; Most of my friends and colleagues (all well-paid "office / professional" sorts) have either been put on furlough, laid off or having their workforce drastically reduced by upto 2/3rd's or more.
Despite a boost (late) this year in car sales, due to no-one being able to buy anything during lock-down, accrued money as no one going on holiday & reduced travelling costs as most of us were WFM + then pent-up demand over supply, since - which has meant (like estate agents) there is currently a mini-boom...
I cannot help wondering what will next year be like?...
And i personally think we will be going through a late 1980's "crash/depression" with very low demand for any cars, because most people will either be selling to raise cash OR not buying because their number 1 priority (apart from seeking new employment) is to just to keep the roof over their head.
Sorry to be such a doom-merchant....But I do remember the last big crash in the late 80's, when a lot of classics/future classics all crashed drastically in value.
If we start to see interest rates increase and a fall in asset prices as a result then the investment money will surely try to leave the property / car market at the margin.
The last 13 years has been built on no interest rates and government borrowing / printing in order to keep the global economies crawling. Surely we cant borrow / print indefinitely which would spell the beginning of a very different economic era.
I think anyone who thinks the future is bright is under the illusion that borrowing and printing infinite money is a sustainable long term plan.
Cant argue with the list tbh. not everything on there would be my choice but still good none the less.
Mk1 RS is a big yes for me. I'd even live with the interior daily
That Impreza will need a couple of grand thrown at it for any potential buyer as its an import.
will need undersealing as the japs don't salt the roads so they also don't underseal their cars, It'll need mapping for UK fuel to prevent the engine going pop and bottom end prematurely knocking, as well as converting to MPH and new radio system to pick up UK reception.
no mention of any of this already being carried out in the add
Mk1 RS is a big yes for me. I'd even live with the interior daily
That Impreza will need a couple of grand thrown at it for any potential buyer as its an import.
will need undersealing as the japs don't salt the roads so they also don't underseal their cars, It'll need mapping for UK fuel to prevent the engine going pop and bottom end prematurely knocking, as well as converting to MPH and new radio system to pick up UK reception.
no mention of any of this already being carried out in the add
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