RE: 11,500lb ft Hummer EV lands
Discussion
NDNDNDND said:
With a 200 kWh battery, this thing will have a CO2 footprint of more than 30 tonnes before it's even been driven.
This is not an environmentally friendly vehicle.
A Tesla Model 3 takes 14 tonnes of CO2 to manufacture which is the same per CO2/kg of vehicle as an contemporary ICE car. The Tesla battery is manufactured in Arizona with low carbon energy vs GM which get their batteries from Korea/China so god knows what this vehicle actually costs.This is not an environmentally friendly vehicle.
There is no inherent reason why most manufacturing processes cannot be run on clean energy and those which do evolve CO2 directly such as steel making can run on different chemistries. Beyond a certain point the focus really has to be on the general industrial supply chain rather than on the cars themselves.
Buying an ICE car imbeds a CO2 emitting device onto the roads for the next 15 years no matter what, and sustains that ICE car production line and supply chain. Buying an EV puts the world on a path to lowering environmental impact even if not every aspect is fixed on day one.
DonkeyApple said:
biggles330d said:
Is it me or does that just look stupid. It's a toy for grown-ups.
As for the Hummer. Really? It saddens me a bit there is actually a market for this sort of stuff.
But this is what all this stuff is, whether big 4x4s, expensive EVs, high performance sports cars. They are all toys for us to use and get enjoyment from. I don’t see why toys should be making people sad? As for the Hummer. Really? It saddens me a bit there is actually a market for this sort of stuff.
This car is the EV equivalent of something impressive on your driveway which is EV. Rather than something same ICE. It's certainly better than the old one. The crab clawing is quite interesting as is the plus 150mm ride height, the ability to take the roof off good too. Of course it's completely insane for Europe, but that is not what it is meant for.
It's the zombie apocalypse car compared to the Rivian and Cybertruck... more choice the merrier in this limited market.
Tesla fan sites have already written it off, like the Taycan, because it fails on the spreadsheet on range and 0-60 ...
The Ford 150 electric is probably what is the way forward in 2021 for electric all wheel drive utility vehicles.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
louiebaby said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
This is not true. You need to add up the fuel used/emissions produced for EVERY single litre of fuel which is delivered to every single fuel station in the world. The transportation of petrol/diesel is an energy consuming act in itself, and is often overlooked. The fuel used in simply getting fuel to the pump is huge.
Indeed. I agree entirely.But where do you stop? Do you have to pro-rata the emissions related to the steel production of the oil rigs?
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
louiebaby said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
This is not true. You need to add up the fuel used/emissions produced for EVERY single litre of fuel which is delivered to every single fuel station in the world. The transportation of petrol/diesel is an energy consuming act in itself, and is often overlooked. The fuel used in simply getting fuel to the pump is huge.
Indeed. I agree entirely.But where do you stop? Do you have to pro-rata the emissions related to the steel production of the oil rigs?
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
C2G emissions are interesting. I recall seeing a paper a number of years back attempting to qauntify it for road vehicles.
It concluded that a V8 jeep was way greener C2G than a prius. The key reasons were amortising co2 'costs' of factory and production line across the model's life-time, and the fact that most jeeps are still being driven. In contrast phevs and bevs have a much shorter life-span and the cell and battery production are very co2 intensive.
But then you get into component sharing and localised vs centralised co2 emissions.
Anyone got any links to a good model that takes account of all the factors?
The study you recall was basically funded by oil companies and made insane assumptions around things like the carbon cost of R&D or factories.It concluded that a V8 jeep was way greener C2G than a prius. The key reasons were amortising co2 'costs' of factory and production line across the model's life-time, and the fact that most jeeps are still being driven. In contrast phevs and bevs have a much shorter life-span and the cell and battery production are very co2 intensive.
But then you get into component sharing and localised vs centralised co2 emissions.
Anyone got any links to a good model that takes account of all the factors?
Batteries in new BEVs are good for about 1500-2000 full cycles or around 500,000 miles of driving. There is also no inherent reason why battery cell production must be energy intensive or why the energy used cannot come from low carbon sources.
Most of what is in an BEV and an ICE car is the same, steel, aluminium, nickel, polymers, rubber. Nothing inherently has to produce emissions, you could run your mine, smelter and factory off low carbon energy.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric...
https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2019-tesla-impact-...
louiebaby said:
rodericb said:
I think there might be some deposits on some Tesla Cybertrucks being refunded.
My CyberTruck's deposit is staying put for now, but this is mighty interesting. I wonder if we'll get a Rivian update in the next couple of days, they're been quiet recently...Why is it every EV thread instead of focusing on the car it turns into a debate on whether it hurts the planet or not....
11,500lbs-ft from the batteries and motor which is more like 800ft lbs..
350mi or range that it won't do..
It looks very cool "i'll give it that"
It if for a niche market of rich people who'll never take it offroad.
And 'erm....
Nobody cares about what ICE does to the environment, if you cared even a little you wouldn't own a vehicle of any kind maybe a bicycle..
I bet most of all reading this thread have used a car to do a journey that could easily been done on foot..
etc etc
I'd hazard we'd have a better chance of cleaning are act up if we stopped making cars altogether and used the ones we have instead of replacing them every 6 months.
Imagine the drop in pollution of all manufacturers ceased production for a week?
11,500lbs-ft from the batteries and motor which is more like 800ft lbs..
350mi or range that it won't do..
It looks very cool "i'll give it that"
It if for a niche market of rich people who'll never take it offroad.
And 'erm....
Nobody cares about what ICE does to the environment, if you cared even a little you wouldn't own a vehicle of any kind maybe a bicycle..
I bet most of all reading this thread have used a car to do a journey that could easily been done on foot..
etc etc
I'd hazard we'd have a better chance of cleaning are act up if we stopped making cars altogether and used the ones we have instead of replacing them every 6 months.
Imagine the drop in pollution of all manufacturers ceased production for a week?
Edited by Henry_b on Wednesday 21st October 14:19
GroundEffect said:
For a comparison between keeping your ICE or buying a new BEV, the best way to do it is presume the initial production CO2 is sunk and calculate the CO2 load of running your Cayenne to death vs a BEV from new. Based on what this data shows, it could be close.
This is only sensible if you intend to scrap your car, even then as the car will be mostly recycled it will generate a negative emission as it avoids mining and smelting.Talksteer said:
GroundEffect said:
For a comparison between keeping your ICE or buying a new BEV, the best way to do it is presume the initial production CO2 is sunk and calculate the CO2 load of running your Cayenne to death vs a BEV from new. Based on what this data shows, it could be close.
This is only sensible if you intend to scrap your car, even then as the car will be mostly recycled it will generate a negative emission as it avoids mining and smelting.Henry_b said:
Evanivitch said:
To further complicate it, an EV battery can have a second-life as a grid storage device after the car chassis is scrapped. How is that counted in the emissions?
Depends on the condition of the batteries themselves i'd imagine. louiebaby said:
rodericb said:
I think there might be some deposits on some Tesla Cybertrucks being refunded.
My CyberTruck's deposit is staying put for now, but this is mighty interesting. I wonder if we'll get a Rivian update in the next couple of days, they're been quiet recently...1: The Hummer is nearly twice the price of the Cybertruck for slightly worse specs
2: Tesla have mastered putting together an EV supply chain capable of supplying hundred of thousands/millions of cars, GMs sales target for the Hummer EV are in the region of 10,000 per year,
3: The Hummer brand was dropped due to negative connotations with pollution and war.
4: This is what happened to their last Tesla killer and this isn't really a total picture as the Model 3 s exported to far more places.
Even if this was objectively better than the Tesla Cybertruck GM aren't actually putting in the infrastructure to actually build that many EVs. The reason for this is that their business isn't set up to make EVs and they also have avoid killing their existing products and bring their work force and supply chain with them.
In the mean time it is likely that Tesla will simply go on make hundreds of thousands of Cybertrucks until they become familiar enough that even conservative buyer start buying them.
Henry_b said:
Why is it every EV thread instead of focusing on the car it turns into a debate on whether it hurts the planet or not....
11,500lbs-ft from the batteries and motor which is more like 800ft lbs..
350mi or range that it won't do..
It looks very cool "i'll give it that"
It if for a niche market of rich people who'll never take it offroad.
And 'erm....
Nobody cares about what ICE does to the environment, if you cared even a little you wouldn't own a vehicle of any kind maybe a bicycle..
I bet most of all reading this thread have used a car to do a journey that could easily been done on foot..
etc etc
I'd hazard we'd have a better chance of cleaning are act up if we stopped making cars altogether and used the ones we have instead of replacing them every 6 months.
Imagine the drop in pollution of all manufacturers ceased production for a week?
This is basically true. An we saw how the air quality improved during lockdown.11,500lbs-ft from the batteries and motor which is more like 800ft lbs..
350mi or range that it won't do..
It looks very cool "i'll give it that"
It if for a niche market of rich people who'll never take it offroad.
And 'erm....
Nobody cares about what ICE does to the environment, if you cared even a little you wouldn't own a vehicle of any kind maybe a bicycle..
I bet most of all reading this thread have used a car to do a journey that could easily been done on foot..
etc etc
I'd hazard we'd have a better chance of cleaning are act up if we stopped making cars altogether and used the ones we have instead of replacing them every 6 months.
Imagine the drop in pollution of all manufacturers ceased production for a week?
Edited by Henry_b on Wednesday 21st October 14:19
The slight fly in the ointment would be mass loss of jobs, loss of income and tax revenue and you know the collapse of society. But other than that it is a good idea.
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