SSC Tuatara Top Speed run apparently faked?

[ch37]

Steven_RW said:

I am with you on this. Where is the supplier of the updated final drive and gear set? The same way Robert Mitchell walks through his list of points and comments on each, Shelby should do the same. Here was what people were worried about with a response to each point individually. Even if a good few could be cleared up at least it would show it was MAYBE just sort of equipment failure on the GPS. Otherwise it just stinks.

RW

I imagine, like Dewetron, the gearbox manufacturer will be more than happy to just distance themselves from this, it's a no-win situation getting involved given that we have a definitive answer that no record will come of this.

The raw data is certainly taking time to surface, I have serious doubts that a genuine attempt at the record will ever happen either. Surely they'd need Michelin on board if really taking it seriously, for a start?

[unsprung]

notslopes said:

clearly those dastardly americans are cheating/lying and no doubt they will have paid the driver to keep quiet about it.

[anonymous-user]

ch37 said:

I imagine, like Dewetron, the gearbox manufacturer will be more than happy to just distance themselves from this, it's a no-win situation getting involved given that we have a definitive answer that no record will come of this.

The raw data is certainly taking time to surface, I have serious doubts that a genuine attempt at the record will ever happen either. Surely they'd need Michelin on board if really taking it seriously, for a start?

When you look at what Bugatti did with their attempt, you have to question Ollies brain cells.

https://newsroom.bugatti/en/feature-stories/bugatt...

That road used for the test seems bloody dangerous to me for that kind of speed attempt.

[Olivergt]

ch37 said:

Steven_RW said:

I am with you on this. Where is the supplier of the updated final drive and gear set? The same way Robert Mitchell walks through his list of points and comments on each, Shelby should do the same. Here was what people were worried about with a response to each point individually. Even if a good few could be cleared up at least it would show it was MAYBE just sort of equipment failure on the GPS. Otherwise it just stinks.

RW

I imagine, like Dewetron, the gearbox manufacturer will be more than happy to just distance themselves from this, it's a no-win situation getting involved given that we have a definitive answer that no record will come of this.

The raw data is certainly taking time to surface, I have serious doubts that a genuine attempt at the record will ever happen either. Surely they'd need Michelin on board if really taking it seriously, for a start?

The biggest problem I see around the final drive and gear set is this:

1. If the final drive was not changed, then this was a complete fraud from the very beginning as the car could never achieve the speeds shown with it's original gear box and final drive.

2. If they were changed, then it's technically possible.

If it is 1. then they are in deep st and in my opinion deserve everything they get.

If it is 2. then the supplier could at least acknowledge they supplied the parts, they don't have to endorse the claim. This would answer the question on whether or not the car was technically capable of those speeds.

[DonBarracuda]

Engineering Explained just dropped a video https://youtu.be/4jqCdBKl0ME
"This story actually developed amidst my filming of this video, so the video will walk you through everything that happened, and at the end I get some answers to my remaining questions. Thanks for watching!"- Engineering Explained

TL;DW He goes over the statements, communicated with all parties. His estimates are very close to Race Logics'. He estimates the theoretical top speed of the car to be 345mph, uses the same maths on the Agera RS gets 282mph (it recorded 278mph on the day). Goes into the gearing packages and the differences between them, he spoke to Shelby about it.
Shelby explained to him that they won't be releasing the data log of the run, the production company have more footage but SSC won't be releasing it either. No GPS data exists. (LOL)

Edited by DonBarracuda on Wednesday 4th November 15:53

[harrylee1]

Olivergt said:

The biggest problem I see around the final drive and gear set is this:

1. If the final drive was not changed, then this was a complete fraud from the very beginning as the car could never achieve the speeds shown with it's original gear box and final drive.

2. If they were changed, then it's technically possible.

If it is 1. then they are in deep st and in my opinion deserve everything they get.

If it is 2. then the supplier could at least acknowledge they supplied the parts, they don't have to endorse the claim. This would answer the question on whether or not the car was technically capable of those speeds.

Someone claims they know for a fact that CIMA supplied the same gearbox as the Agera RS - so with a 3.167 final ratio as opposed to what SSC are saying. This is why Robert Mitchell will be doing a sound spectogram of the next run to confirm whether it was a lie or not.

It's entirely possible that another company provided 6th and 7th gear ratios for SSC - but highly unlikely.

[Olivergt]

harrylee1 said:

Olivergt said:

The biggest problem I see around the final drive and gear set is this:

1. If the final drive was not changed, then this was a complete fraud from the very beginning as the car could never achieve the speeds shown with it's original gear box and final drive.

2. If they were changed, then it's technically possible.

If it is 1. then they are in deep st and in my opinion deserve everything they get.

If it is 2. then the supplier could at least acknowledge they supplied the parts, they don't have to endorse the claim. This would answer the question on whether or not the car was technically capable of those speeds.

Someone claims they know for a fact that CIMA supplied the same gearbox as the Agera RS - so with a 3.167 final ratio as opposed to what SSC are saying. This is why Robert Mitchell will be doing a sound spectogram of the next run to confirm whether it was a lie or not.

It's entirely possible that another company provided 6th and 7th gear ratios for SSC - but highly unlikely.

That's what I'm getting at, unless they provide details of who supplied the different final drive or gear ratios, then it's looking more and more like they set out to commit fraud as the car with the known gearbox was not technically capable of those speeds.

They are still claiming on their website that they have a world record and that Dewetron validated the data, which is completely inaccurate and should be removed.

Edit: I have just sent them an email, let's see what they say, if anything.

Edited by Olivergt on Wednesday 4th November 16:21

[Bodo]

DonBarracuda said:

Engineering Explained just dropped a video https://youtu.be/4jqCdBKl0ME
"This story actually developed amidst my filming of this video, so the video will walk you through everything that happened, and at the end I get some answers to my remaining questions. Thanks for watching!"- Engineering Explained

Edited by DonBarracuda on Wednesday 4th November 15:15

Very good video!
From the comments (Byron G) for said video:

said:

CASE AGAINST THE ACCUSED (in no particular order)

1 Lies regarding Dewetron involvement

2 Helicopter's speed relative to GPS display

3 Different speeds displayed for identical videos on SSC and Top gear channels

4 Blocking of detractors on social media

5 Maths delivered by Shmee, Robert and Misha

6 Tyres not rated for alleged speeds

7 Alteration of the gear ratios initally published

8 Lies regarding Guinness ratification

9 Lack of promised raw data

10 Blurring of speedometer

11 Speed of Tuatara relative to Koenigsegg between fixed points

11 Maths delivered by Racelogic

12 No date set for rerun despite 3rd party offer to pay

13 Non removal of debunked info on SSC website

14 Syncing of laptop and GPS displays


CASE FOR THE DEFENCE

1 Jerod Shelby's word

Makes it a bit more comprehensible; I'd see another point added to that as EE quotes Dewetron that it's theoretically possible to scale and filter input values in their Oxygen software. As far as I understand it, one could determine a readout that is not necessarily an accurate measurement result. Additionally, Shelby claims that there is no GPS data (or he won't release it); ie. input values for said software.

[honda_exige]

Wouldn't surprise me if the BHP claim is bogus or at least not capable of providing said BHP for the extended period of time needed for a top speed run. Making an engine provide that power for a 8 second 1/4 mile pull without heat soak is easy. Making a cooling system to enable the engine to provide said BHP over an extended period of time is very very hard.

I would suggest it's possibly beyond the ability of tiny SSC or the small engine shop they use, Nelson Racing, who typically build drag engines. Just look at the extremes Bugatti had to go to to cool the W16.

Also in the Tuatara vs Veyron Stradman race it didn't seem significantly faster than an Agera RS in the multiple Agera vs Veyron vids out there.

[noble12345]

Whos going to buy this car now?

[anonymous-user]

I think he must have known what he was doing considering the evidence on there run, was filming a 'gps' screen.

[Steven_RW]

honda_exige said:

Wouldn't surprise me if the BHP claim is bogus or at least not capable of providing said BHP for the extended period of time needed for a top speed run. Making an engine provide that power for a 8 second 1/4 mile pull without heat soak is easy. Making a cooling system to enable the engine to provide said BHP over an extended period of time is very very hard.

I would suggest it's possibly beyond the ability of tiny SSC or the small engine shop they use, Nelson Racing, who typically build drag engines. Just look at the extremes Bugatti had to go to to cool the W16.

I entirely agree - the dissipation of heat during extended periods of max load will be very challenging especially whilst this car claims to be as slippery as a bullet. The time you need the maximum BHP is as you get closer to your theoretical top speed and most turbo cars are seriously struggling to keep charge temps down after long periods of WOT.

[Bodo]

With almost four weeks after promising a new run, has Jerod Shelby released a date now?

[matjk]

He’s probably keeping a low profile till it “just blows over”
Expect radio silence till we have all forgotten

[DonBarracuda]

SSC and the GPS company Dewetron sneakily released a press release a few weeks ago



So now Dewetron has validated the data but Shelby won't make the data public ...I suspect somebody over at Dewetron got a very heavily discounted hyper car. Website still claims they broke the world record.

Second attempt will never happen

Edited by DonBarracuda on Wednesday 25th November 14:27

[fatbutt]

matjk said:

He’s probably keeping a low profile till it “just blows over”
Expect radio silence till we have all forgotten

T'internet never forgets...

[AmosMoses]

I'm just listening through my backlog of the TST podcast and i've got to the one with ssc designer. Hearing him claim they've beat the world record by 50mph and exceeded 320mph is a cringe listen. "If you see the data logger your mind will be blown"

Aged like milk that one

I suspect we wont see a record before the new year, which year? Who knows

[14]

DonBarracuda said:

So now Dewetron has valid ated the data but Shelby won't make the data public ...I suspect somebody over at Dewetron got a very heavily discounted hyper car. Website still claims they broke the world record.

Second attempt will never happen

Edited by DonBarracuda on Wednesday 25th November 14:27

My guess is the GPS data doesn’t show SSC’s claims, and privately SSC acknowledges that.

[GT119]

14 said:

My guess is the GPS data doesn’t show SSC’s claims, and privately SSC acknowledges that.

Transatlantic Phone Call No. 1:

SSC: The output says 301 and 331
Dewetron: We verify that this is the speed
SSC: Party on dudes, we did it! Are you cool for us to tell the world
Dewetron: Um, yes, maybe

Transatlantic Phone Call No. 2:

SSC: The output says 301 and 331, but no-one believes us
Dewetron: We pack all of our products with the slider switch on the back set to metric, you did switch it over didn't you
SSC: Switch, what switch!
Dewetron: Um, maybe we forgot to tell you, I'm not sure...
SSC: We need to fix this now, you told us we could tell the world.
Dewetron: OK, I'll see what I can do.

[anonymous-user]

something like this?

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/201...