RE: Land Rover Defender 90 | UK Review
Discussion
Andeh1 said:
fatboy b said:
Hardly the mud-plugger that they farmers want/need. JLR ignores the market that the grew the brand. Instead gone more like the take-it or leave-it German/Jap brands.
This needs to be stopped in these threads, this is single handedly the most stupid suggestion in the history of stupid suggestions when it comes to the new Defender. That mythical bastion of untapped sales success DOES NOT EXIST. Just think about it, you will realise how stupid it is. 
(edit: Exception to every rule, my neighbor's farming family just bought one to replace the most battered Mitsubishi i'd ever seen
) Not a single one of them as far as I am aware where begging for a crude defender replacement for them to batter round the fields. That view point in so outdated its ridiculous. People just jumping on the cliche and moaning bandwagon
dukebox9reg said:
Andeh1 said:
fatboy b said:
Hardly the mud-plugger that they farmers want/need. JLR ignores the market that the grew the brand. Instead gone more like the take-it or leave-it German/Jap brands.
This needs to be stopped in these threads, this is single handedly the most stupid suggestion in the history of stupid suggestions when it comes to the new Defender. That mythical bastion of untapped sales success DOES NOT EXIST. Just think about it, you will realise how stupid it is. (edit: Exception to every rule, my neighbor's farming family just bought one to replace the most battered Mitsubishi i'd ever seen
) Not a single one of them as far as I am aware where begging for a crude defender replacement for them to batter round the fields. That view point in so outdated its ridiculous. People just jumping on the cliche and moaning bandwagon
ahhh love this threads... so many grumpy old men who were never ever the target market anyway coming up with long lists of reasons they won't buy a car they weren't ever going to buy.
it's not 75k is is. That's the absolute top of the line version with 400bhp, which very few people will buy. A Diesel starts around 42k, and i got it to 55k with a set of decent options on the configurator. I lot of money but then whoop-di-doo, turns out people by expensive cars on finance (Porsche/Merc/Audi/BMW equivalents not dissimilar in price).
For Family Cidered, we have a Disco Sport at the moment, we've done 30k miles in it as second owners, it's out of warranty, and it's been good as gold. JLR have their issues trying to make complex luxury products without economics of scale of their competitors - but i figure it's not that they don't know this one needs to be better, and it has a warranty, and the garage is up the road.
The 110 is just too big - but this, it looks cool, it looks fun, there's only 3 of us - and we just need a car that we can all fit in, that can go to the dump once in a while, and if we need a long journey can fit luggage. Which with a seat down, it would.
yes horribly compromised vs. the nice sensible estate we could buy, but if we all bought sensible cars we wouldn't have online communities dedicated to talking about cars...
Wife's car and family car up for renewal this time next year - currently looking at an Alpine A110 for the missus, and one of these as the family barge. And i'll be perfectly happy with that, no matter how furious it makes the internet
it's not 75k is is. That's the absolute top of the line version with 400bhp, which very few people will buy. A Diesel starts around 42k, and i got it to 55k with a set of decent options on the configurator. I lot of money but then whoop-di-doo, turns out people by expensive cars on finance (Porsche/Merc/Audi/BMW equivalents not dissimilar in price).
For Family Cidered, we have a Disco Sport at the moment, we've done 30k miles in it as second owners, it's out of warranty, and it's been good as gold. JLR have their issues trying to make complex luxury products without economics of scale of their competitors - but i figure it's not that they don't know this one needs to be better, and it has a warranty, and the garage is up the road.
The 110 is just too big - but this, it looks cool, it looks fun, there's only 3 of us - and we just need a car that we can all fit in, that can go to the dump once in a while, and if we need a long journey can fit luggage. Which with a seat down, it would.
yes horribly compromised vs. the nice sensible estate we could buy, but if we all bought sensible cars we wouldn't have online communities dedicated to talking about cars...
Wife's car and family car up for renewal this time next year - currently looking at an Alpine A110 for the missus, and one of these as the family barge. And i'll be perfectly happy with that, no matter how furious it makes the internet
Edited by cidered77 on Thursday 29th October 12:18
Phooey said:
Pumpsmynads said:
Macan gts @ £59k would be my shout.
Different kind of 4x4. Totally.Sure some will be mud plugged like some Disco are (were) - but the vast majority and where the value to JLR sits?
So the comparison with a Porsche 4x4 does suddenly become valid I personally feel and the requirement of the owner and the longevity of the product in production will be impacted in a similar way.
How can something that is still a large car at the end of the day, NOT have a boot???
This isn't a Mk1 Jimny or SJ sized vehicle!
Even in 90 spec, its a big car!
If four adults go out for the day, they can't take anything with them then, and the only way you can do a weekly shop is to drop the seats???
This isn't a Mk1 Jimny or SJ sized vehicle!
Even in 90 spec, its a big car!
If four adults go out for the day, they can't take anything with them then, and the only way you can do a weekly shop is to drop the seats???
mat205125 said:
How can something that is still a large car at the end of the day, NOT have a boot???
This isn't a Mk1 Jimny or SJ sized vehicle!
Even in 90 spec, its a big car!
If four adults go out for the day, they can't take anything with them then, and the only way you can do a weekly shop is to drop the seats???
It is to all intents the same length as a Mini Countryman, which is not a large car.This isn't a Mk1 Jimny or SJ sized vehicle!
Even in 90 spec, its a big car!
If four adults go out for the day, they can't take anything with them then, and the only way you can do a weekly shop is to drop the seats???
Defender 90 4323mm
Mini Countryman 4299mm
i.e. 24mm or an inch longer.
mat205125 said:
How can something that is still a large car at the end of the day, NOT have a boot???
because LETS OFF ROAD!4x4 are inverse tardii, simply because everything oil underneath needs to be massive and chunky, and needs to be able to move (articulate) as far as possible! 4x4, have big wheels / tyres,which means they need big wheelhouses into which those big wheels/tyres can go. The foor in the cabin needs to be high, because there is a massive transmission with huge gears to handle the massive torque. The chassis and body need to be super strong and stiff, so the thing doesn't snap in half when you cross axle it, and when you tow a trailer that is 3.5 tonnes.
mat205125 said:
How can something that is still a large car at the end of the day, NOT have a boot???
This isn't a Mk1 Jimny or SJ sized vehicle!
Even in 90 spec, its a big car!
If four adults go out for the day, they can't take anything with them then, and the only way you can do a weekly shop is to drop the seats???
Ahh but that is when the beauty of Land rover authentic accessories come in to play... roof box, roof rack, bike rack and that weird little lunchbox they stick on the outside as well. This isn't a Mk1 Jimny or SJ sized vehicle!
Even in 90 spec, its a big car!
If four adults go out for the day, they can't take anything with them then, and the only way you can do a weekly shop is to drop the seats???
Does this have a sliding rear bench like some cars have now to give you more boot space? maybe they have it slid all the way back for some reason?
Numeric said:
I disagree - this car is not aimed at the utility market as that is well covered by Toyota etc with brilliant pickups - so it is aimed at the lifestyle market wanting the next lovely thing. Maybe more dog oriented in their thinking and looking for something to go to the hunt ball in, but still very much 4x4 fashion rather than 4x4 cos I have to mud plug.
Sure some will be mud plugged like some Disco are (were) - but the vast majority and where the value to JLR sits?
So the comparison with a Porsche 4x4 does suddenly become valid I personally feel and the requirement of the owner and the longevity of the product in production will be impacted in a similar way.
agreed - it is absolutely a car pitched at "middle classes who want something cool". Definitely up against the Macan- which is looking a bit long in the tooth now, as an aside. Sure some will be mud plugged like some Disco are (were) - but the vast majority and where the value to JLR sits?
So the comparison with a Porsche 4x4 does suddenly become valid I personally feel and the requirement of the owner and the longevity of the product in production will be impacted in a similar way.
Mrs Cidered cares about such things, has wanted a Macan in the past which i managed to dodge, now loves this, and I'm not embarrassed to say - i also think it's cool, and I'd love one as a family wagon. Even if an estate would be more suited to what we need
Max_Torque said:
mat205125 said:
How can something that is still a large car at the end of the day, NOT have a boot???
because LETS OFF ROAD!4x4 are inverse tardii, simply because everything oil underneath needs to be massive and chunky, and needs to be able to move (articulate) as far as possible! 4x4, have big wheels / tyres,which means they need big wheelhouses into which those big wheels/tyres can go. The foor in the cabin needs to be high, because there is a massive transmission with huge gears to handle the massive torque. The chassis and body need to be super strong and stiff, so the thing doesn't snap in half when you cross axle it, and when you tow a trailer that is 3.5 tonnes.
swisstoni said:
I honestly think if LR (and other makes come to that) just made a version of these vehicles without the mountain climbing capabilities and all the complex associated gubbins and freed up more interior space they’d sell just as well to 90% of customers.
People like the look!
Would people spend a bit less for a 488 GTB with a 300bhp 4 cylinder turbo that was much less capable on track but still way more than most drivers could handle? People like the look!
Some cars sell on what magazines say they can do, less what people actually use them for.
cidered77 said:
swisstoni said:
I honestly think if LR (and other makes come to that) just made a version of these vehicles without the mountain climbing capabilities and all the complex associated gubbins and freed up more interior space they’d sell just as well to 90% of customers.
People like the look!
Would people spend a bit less for a 488 GTB with a 300bhp 4 cylinder turbo that was much less capable on track but still way more than most drivers could handle? People like the look!
Some cars sell on what magazines say they can do, less what people actually use them for.
Obvious point to note was the original SVR was still on all seasons, Pirelli Scorpion Verde all-seasons like the rest of the range. That's why it got absolutely spanked in track tests against the Cayenne etc ( but the RR could still get up a grass field, im sure it was autocar who did that test) They eventually gave the SVR summer performance tyres.
Can you imagine if they did do a fwd only softroader like a 3008. People would point and laugh and bang on about heritage (like this Defender thread for example)
I wouldnt mind Jag doing that though.
Edited by dukebox9reg on Thursday 29th October 15:13
dukebox9reg said:
Can you imagine if they did do a fwd only softroader like a 3008. People would point and laugh and bang on about heritage (like this Defender thread for example)
Someone I used to work with bought a two wheel drive Evoque - just in time for an Aberdeenshire winter.It was quietly changed for a 4x4 CRV about 6 months later.
I really want to like this but can't see any reason to buy one aside from the fact i think it looks great..it's not even the pricing that's the biggest issue, it's the fact it's going to be useless for anyone with more than 2 family members, a dog, a mountain bike or even golf clubs!...regretfully i'm out!
Stevemtb said:
I really want to like this but can't see any reason to buy one aside from the fact i think it looks great..it's not even the pricing that's the biggest issue, it's the fact it's going to be useless for anyone with more than 2 family members, a dog, a mountain bike or even golf clubs!...regretfully i'm out!
So are you getting a 110 then?There’s going to be a spate of British farmers found in their field, dead from exhaustion with the corpse of a sheep that has rolled out of that boot for the hundredth and last time. As well as some dogs as confused and angry as the average PH pensioner after ten minutes of scrabbling about on what looks like a midget’s ski slope.
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