RE: Land Rover Defender 90 | UK Review
Discussion
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Doesn't make good press. And adds to the confirmation bias that LR products are unreliable.
At some point we need to get to the bottom of this belief that Land Rover is little different than most other brands, when it comes to things like quality and reliability.This belief and the supposed data are poles apart.
Zulu 10 said:
unsprung said:
At some point we need to get to the bottom of this belief that Land Rover is little different than most other brands, when it comes to things like quality and reliability.
This belief and the supposed data are poles apart.
I think you’ll find that the data presented by the What Car Survey 2020 is fairly convincing. JLR are at the bottom of every category in which they exist.This belief and the supposed data are poles apart.
At the moment I have a Range Rover and my wife has a Freelander, and we’re going to replace them with a Grenadier because we don’t like what JLR has become and the market it apparently appeals to.
In my opinion JLR are insufficiently big to be able to do a thorough development job and expect the customer to do it for them. Ineos on the other hand recognise this and have gone to Magna Steyr.
Reliability for family SUVs aged up to five years old
Rank
Make and model
Score
1.
BMW X1 petrol 2015-on 98.1%
2.
Skoda Karoq petrol 2018-on 97.9%
=3.
Vauxhall Mokka petrol 2012-2019 97.7%
=3.
Mercedes GLA 2014-2020 97.7%
5.
Volvo XC40 petrol 2017-on 97.5%
=6.
Suzuki SX4 S-Cross 2013-on 96.7%
=6.
Skoda Karoq diesel 2018-on 96.7%
=8.
Kia Sportage 2016-on 96.4%
=8.
Volvo XC40 diesel 2017-on 96.4%
10.
BMW X1 diesel 2015-on 95.6%
11.
Hyundai Tucson 2015-on 95.3%
12.
Volkswagen Tiguan petrol 2016-on 94.9%
=13.
Volkswagen Tiguan diesel 2016-on 94.3%
=13.
Seat Ateca 2016-on 94.3%
15.
Audi Q3 2011-2018 92.8%
16.
Peugeot 3008 petrol 2017-on 91.5%
17.
Peugeot 3008 diesel 2017-on 89.8%
18.
Vauxhall Grandland X 2018-on 89.5%
19.
Audi Q3 2018-on 89.0%
20.
Range Rover Evoque 2019-on 88.7%
21.
Renault Kadjar 2015-on 88.6%
22.
Jaguar E-Pace 2017-on 88.4%
23.
Nissan Qashqai petrol 2014-on 87.7%
24.
Nissan Qashqai diesel 2014-on 86.1%
25.
Range Rover Evoque 2011-2019 82.8%
Reliability for large SUVs aged up to five years old
Rank
Make and model
Score
1.
Ford Kuga petrol 2013-2020 97.8%
2.
Mazda CX-5 petrol 2017-on 96.9%
3.
Skoda Kodiaq petrol 2016-on 96.5%
4.
Audi Q5 2017-on 96.3%
=6.
Honda CR-V 2012-2018 95.6%
=6.
BMW X3 2010-2018 95.6%
7.
Kia Sorento 2015-on 95.1%
8.
Ford Kuga diesel 2013-2020 95.0%
=10.
Volvo XC60 2008-2017 94.8%
=10.
Volvo XC60 2017-on 94.8%
11.
Mercedes GLC 2015-on 94.0%
12.
Audi Q5 diesel 2008-2017 93.8%
13.
Audi Q5 petrol 2008-2017 93.3%
14.
Skoda Kodiaq diesel 2016-on
93.2%
15.
BMW X4 2014-2018 92.4%
16.
BMW X3 2018-on 91.9%
17.
Jaguar F-Pace 2016-on 91.6%
=19.
Hyundai Santa Fe 2013-2018 90.3%
=19.
Mazda CX-5 diesel 2017-on 90.3%
20.
BMW X6 2014-2019 88.2%
21.
Nissan X-Trail 2014-on 87.6%
22.
Land Rover Discovery Sport 2014-on 73.1%
Reliability for luxury SUVs aged up to five years old
Rank
Make and model
Score
1.
Porsche Macan 2014-on 96.9%
2.
Audi Q7 2015-on 94.0%
3.
Mercedes GLE 2015-2019 92.8%
4.
Volvo XC90 2015-on 91.6%
5.
BMW X5 2013-2018 89.9%
6.
Range Rover 2013-on 85.4%
7.
Range Rover Velar 2017-on 81.9%
8.
Land Rover Discovery 2017-on 77.0%
9.
Range Rover Sport 2014-on 74.2%
Edited by Zulu 10 on Tuesday 3rd November 07:24
Zulu 10 said:
At the moment I have a Range Rover and my wife has a Freelander, and we’re going to replace them with a Grenadier because we don’t like what JLR has become and the market it apparently appeals to.
Not a chance in hell will you.... Anyone who thinks they'll spend £50k on an agricultural, uneconomical, unsafe, noisy, basic, uncomfortable, 'proudly based on a 50 year old design' is ludicrously kidding themselves. And that's even assuming the project doesn't quietly get canned in the next 5 minutes...
Cold said:
Interesting that the repeated claims of unreliability of this car are centred around one individual vehicle.
Like my Toyota with repeated expensive faults on engine, gearbox, clutch, alternator, brakes, suspension and steering.Now I could say all Toyotas are unreliable expensive heaps but it could be my car was especially bad. I haven't bought another one to find out.
swisstoni said:
A magazine survey. The Gold Standard.
Which survey would you cite, Micky mouse or otherwise, that they are reliable? There are too many tales out there to ignore. They look great but 90% of my friends who have owned a JLR product (FFRR and RRS mainly) have had no end of issues with them, they seem to be in the main dealer 2-3 times a year for a week each time, and that’s when they can get them in.
CS Garth said:
swisstoni said:
A magazine survey. The Gold Standard.
Which survey would you cite, Micky mouse or otherwise, that they are reliable? There are too many tales out there to ignore. They look great but 90% of my friends who have owned a JLR product (FFRR and RRS mainly) have had no end of issues with them, they seem to be in the garage 2-3 times a year for a week each time, and that’s when they can get them in.
Seemingly they couldn’t find any Lexus, which I’m pretty confident would have blown the lot of them out of the park.
swisstoni said:
Frankly I’m inclined to agree with you on LR products based on my own experience, but I’m a bit allergic to iffy stats.
Seemingly they couldn’t find any Lexus, which I’m pretty confident would have blown the lot of them out of the park.
Agreed - it’s a shame JLR can’t address these issues, I’d love to see them much higher in the tables. Seemingly they couldn’t find any Lexus, which I’m pretty confident would have blown the lot of them out of the park.
Andeh1 said:
Zulu 10 said:
At the moment I have a Range Rover and my wife has a Freelander, and we’re going to replace them with a Grenadier because we don’t like what JLR has become and the market it apparently appeals to.
Not a chance in hell will you.... Anyone who thinks they'll spend £50k on an agricultural, uneconomical, unsafe, noisy, basic, uncomfortable, 'proudly based on a 50 year old design' is ludicrously kidding themselves. And that's even assuming the project doesn't quietly get canned in the next 5 minutes...But, its still not a vehicle for today - and all it has done is to make new Defender look a whole lot better
CS Garth said:
Burwood said:
Byker28i said:
Saw one of these at Burford at the weekend. Not sure I like the styling currently, a bit too discovery, but the interior looked a nice place to be. I think it'll be one of those cars the styling grows on you although the white steel wheels looked strange and out of keeping with the car
Are tan interiors the latest fashion? Seen a few of these now
It's that god awful silver bumper which ruins the aesthetic. It's the same with the BMW X-Line range. You need to spend more to colour code it or make it black.Are tan interiors the latest fashion? Seen a few of these now
Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have any James Bond jim-jams or nose hair pliers. As the Defender features in the new Bond film, I was hoping to cash in with this number plare arrangement back in November, but alas, my dastarly plan to profit from jocular number plate world domination is temporarily thwarted and I'll just have to sit in my Burford lair, stroking my cat. Aside from the shock horror of there being a silver rear bumper and sporting white steelies, it's a fabulous vehicle to own and drive, and a pleasing world apart from my previous 1998 Defender.
Edited by OxfordBlue on Tuesday 26th January 10:05
OxfordBlue said:
CS Garth said:
Burwood said:
Byker28i said:
Saw one of these at Burford at the weekend. Not sure I like the styling currently, a bit too discovery, but the interior looked a nice place to be. I think it'll be one of those cars the styling grows on you although the white steel wheels looked strange and out of keeping with the car
Are tan interiors the latest fashion? Seen a few of these now
It's that god awful silver bumper which ruins the aesthetic. It's the same with the BMW X-Line range. You need to spend more to colour code it or make it black.Are tan interiors the latest fashion? Seen a few of these now
Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have any James Bond jim-jams or nose hair pliers. As the Defender features in the new Bond film, I was hoping to cash in with this number plare arrangement back in November, but alas, my dastarly plan to profit from jocular number plate world domination is temporarily thwarted and I'll just have to sit in my Burford lair, stroking my cat. Aside from the shock horror of there being a silver rear bumper and sporting white steelies, it's a fabulous vehicle to own and drive, and a pleasing world apart from my previous 1998 Defender.
Edited by OxfordBlue on Tuesday 26th January 10:05
k all about it. Definitely not James Bondesque behaviour. 
OxfordBlue said:
Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have any James Bond jim-jams or nose hair pliers. As the Defender features in the new Bond film, I was hoping to cash in with this number plare arrangement back in November, but alas, my dastarly plan to profit from jocular number plate world domination is temporarily thwarted and I'll just have to sit in my Burford lair, stroking my cat. Aside from the shock horror of there being a silver rear bumper and sporting white steelies, it's a fabulous vehicle to own and drive, and a pleasing world apart from my previous 1998 Defender.
Edited by OxfordBlue on Tuesday 26th January 10:05
“No, Mr Bond, I expect you to buy my slightly tenuous cherished plate”
BVB said:
Saw one if these on the road for the first time the other day, in London, where else. Anyway, absolutely hideous in the flesh, and enormous. Dreadful homage to the original, which was small and utilitarian. The Jimny was closer to the Defender than this new monstrosity.
This is the trouble when people get old, not only do they seemingly get really, really angry about unimportant things but they get terrible confused as to how things used to be. The additional worry is that this kind of dementia seems to be kicking in very young with some social demographics. Never in its history has it been small. In fact the first iteration of the Defender was fatter than an XJ6 at the time. The current Defender maintains that.
So the real truth is that it was the series 1 Defender that went fatter than average but since the dawn of time they've been fatter than the average mid sized family car they've shared the road with.
People get very confused because the original Defender was in production unchanged for so many years while all other models of car were updated and grew in size.
As for utility, again a lot of really angry blokes are getting very confused with the world they live in. The 1950s were actually in the 1950s rather than the 2020s and I think quite a few blokes have become very confused by this forward movement of time and I assume they haven't realised that their home now has a lavatory inside and they are still trudging down to the shed with an old copy of the Daily Mail to use as god intended.
On planet Earth where time and civilisation move forward at a quicker pace than on planet rage and confusion, the utility requirement of vehicles has evolved. The transit van has replaced things like a Land Rover as it is far superior at being a transit van. While the pickup truck has replaced the Landie as it is far superior at being a pickup truck. At the same time the entire planet now have things called roads which people can use to get from a to b. Yet no one really does lifestyle utility like Land Rover who have been king of the hill in lifestyle utility since the 1970s. The new Defender is specifically a utility vehicle. It fits the utility needs of those who can afford it preci Ely as it did back with the S1 and as it has done with every subsequent iteration.
What we really need to do is move the discussion forward by peeling away the excuses and focussing on what is really making some blokes so angry as like the SUV thing it's not actually the car but with those the car is merely the proxy for the real anger at women, non whites and just anyone they deem to be lessor humans who have the audacity to spend more money than them on a car. So we should just skip all the drivel about the 1950s and how the world hasn't changed, skip all the made up rubbish about sizes and utility and just focus on the real issue which is that some blokes don't like the price and don't like the sort of people who don't mind the price.
BVB said:
Saw one if these on the road for the first time the other day, in London, where else. Anyway, absolutely hideous in the flesh, and enormous. Dreadful homage to the original, which was small and utilitarian. The Jimny was closer to the Defender than this new monstrosity.
Saw one of these on the road for the first time on Tuesday, a 110 in grey with steelies, in the highlands, where else.Looks good, presence and fit for purpose. Large, mind!
Chatted to the owner who loves it. He seemed mildly surprised how unlike his Series it drives. He's keeping the Series for "work" and using the Defender for long trips at which he says it's great.
Bill said:
It's probably just perspective but as a D4 owner I'm surprised how small they are!
Agreed as a D4 owner I was surprised at how much smaller the boot on the Defender is than the D4, interior passenger space is a bit better and bigger but the boot seems to have suffered. Going to wait until the 130 version comes out to make a swap, so couple of more years with the D4, heaven!
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