Dont buy cheap wheel spacers...or else!
Discussion
ddom said:
Elatino1 said:
Who said 5mm? Mine had 20mm each side so 40mm overall. It looks noticeably better amd physics would point to a wider track being more stable.
Manufacturers often widen the track on their sportier models too.
Stability is more to do with toe, but keep telling yourself whatever you want to hear. Manufacturers often widen the track on their sportier models too.
ddom said:
Elatino1 said:
Just read the bits you want to read yes? Not the bits when I said "assuming the car is aligned to suit" implying everything else being equal.
Case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing 
Kent Border Kenny said:
JimSuperSix said:
Sorry you're not quite right about that part - there ARE performance improvments to cornering, although they are very very small when applied to a "regular" car - here's a good explanation:
+ wider track = small benefits to cornering / stability / lateral grip , only around 1-2%
- quite a lot - bearing / tyre wear increased , geometry changes etc...
It depends how the wider track is achieved, and what the original geometry is, which affects the dynamic weight transfer. Decreasing the transfer onto the outer wheel does not necessarily improve turn-in; it’s far too complex a question to have one simple outcome like that.+ wider track = small benefits to cornering / stability / lateral grip , only around 1-2%
- quite a lot - bearing / tyre wear increased , geometry changes etc...
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 1st November 11:29
Reduce weight transfer and you change all sorts of secondary things as well.
Elatino1 said:
ddom said:
Elatino1 said:
Just read the bits you want to read yes? Not the bits when I said "assuming the car is aligned to suit" implying everything else being equal.
Case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing Consider why huge cranes deploy outriggers when they are lifting stuff.
As a thought experiment - imagine a typical 4x4 with a track of 1.8m or whatever it is - now imagine you add huge spacers and move the wheels out 2m on each side - ignoring whether the physical properties of the spacers and suspension could survive , do you think the vehicle is now more , less or equally likely to roll over when cornering?
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 1st November 14:23
Elatino1 said:
You can poat idiotic emojis all you like but it is only highlighting your misunderstanding. It's very basic physics but seems you don't understand even that. All things being equal a wider base makes ANYTHING that is on top of level even hard ground more stable.
Well, we had better all get those 20mm spacers on pronto As for performance, a wheel spacer is at the bottom of the pile for improving stability. 
ddom said:
Well, we had better all get those 20mm spacers on pronto As for performance, a wheel spacer is at the bottom of the pile for improving stability.
Why do you always have total meltdown everytime anyone disagrees with your personal opinion? As for performance, a wheel spacer is at the bottom of the pile for improving stability. There are countless posts where you have done it, many of which had to be closed because you act like a toddler.
I'm interested to know the rational between the bolt through spacers being ok, but the bolt on not being so.
Anyone who is struggling to put trust in metal components being bolted together correctly must have a terribly anxious time whenever they get in a car.
Can people honestly not get their head around wheel spacers... I'm imagining a bunch of guys in chinos, driving round in 6 month old diesel Audis, calling themselves car enthusiasts.
It's fine if you don't trust them. That just shows that you simply don't understand anything about how a vehicle is put together. But please don't try and pass off your anxiety as fact.
Christ, if some of you ever looked at the designs and then remanufacture process of cheap outer steering tie rod joints from the likes of GSF, a lot of you would never get in a car again.
Anyone who is struggling to put trust in metal components being bolted together correctly must have a terribly anxious time whenever they get in a car.
Can people honestly not get their head around wheel spacers... I'm imagining a bunch of guys in chinos, driving round in 6 month old diesel Audis, calling themselves car enthusiasts.
It's fine if you don't trust them. That just shows that you simply don't understand anything about how a vehicle is put together. But please don't try and pass off your anxiety as fact.
Christ, if some of you ever looked at the designs and then remanufacture process of cheap outer steering tie rod joints from the likes of GSF, a lot of you would never get in a car again.
The spacers that the op used just look wrong. I can't understand why anyone would use that design. I'm against them generally, but at least the bolt through ones aren't at risk of having parts break off them.
It still doesn't answer the question of why anyone would think spacers are a good idea on a car that fundamentally steers as well as a standard IS250 does, which, unless I've misunderstood, is the car in question here. Aesthetics seems a poor reason, given they aren't a bad looking car anyway.
It still doesn't answer the question of why anyone would think spacers are a good idea on a car that fundamentally steers as well as a standard IS250 does, which, unless I've misunderstood, is the car in question here. Aesthetics seems a poor reason, given they aren't a bad looking car anyway.
Heaveho said:
The spacers that the op used just look wrong. I can't understand why anyone would use that design. I'm against them generally, but at least the bolt through ones aren't at risk of having parts break off them.
If they are designed, manufactured, and assembled correctly I don't see why a bolt through design is any safer than a separate bolt design. Mave said:
If they are designed, manufactured, and assembled correctly I don't see why a bolt through design is any safer than a separate bolt design.
Because they haven't got the studs hanging off a thin piece of metal with little support? Bolt throughs have no possible failure possibilities other than people not using the correct length bolts ( which isn't the fault of the spacer ), the design the op has used can ( and in this instance has ) failed due to being under stress.
Edited by Heaveho on Sunday 1st November 14:54
Motech (and others) have been offering wheel spacers and suspension components for the M135, M140 and M2 for the past few years. I can't recall them having any issues or complaints from customers. My understanding is that they realign the geometry after fitting to make sure there are no adverse effects from the wider track etc.
But if it's a real mans spacer you want... https://youtu.be/96AGEugR3-o?t=321
But if it's a real mans spacer you want... https://youtu.be/96AGEugR3-o?t=321
rufusgti said:
Can people honestly not get their head around wheel spacers... I'm imagining a bunch of guys in chinos, driving round in 6 month old diesel Audis, calling themselves car enthusiasts. .
That’s weird, I picture those who do use them hanging around a KFC in tracksuit trousers in clapped-out Saxos with loud stereos and talking about how they did an R8 on the bypass on their way back from college the other night.Heaveho said:
Mave said:
If they are designed, manufactured, and assembled correctly I don't see why a bolt through design is any safer than a separate bolt design.
Because they haven't got the studs hanging off a thin piece of metal with little support? Bolt throughs have no possible failure possibilities other than people not using the correct length bolts ( which isn't the fault of the spacer ), the design the op has used can ( and in this instance has ) failed due to being under stress.
Edited by Heaveho on Sunday 1st November 14:54
Either design CAN work absolutely fine, assuming it's a) designed properly for the loads, b) manufactured from the appropriate grade materials, and c) properly installed i.e. not over or under-torqued.
Heaveho said:
Mave said:
If they are designed, manufactured, and assembled correctly I don't see why a bolt through design is any safer than a separate bolt design.
Because they haven't got the studs hanging off a thin piece of metal with little support?
OK, i agree that if the spacer is too thin to properly support the studs then that's a problem (but I would class that as not designed properly if they aren't able to cope with the basic design loads)
Heaveho said:
Bolt throughs have no possible failure possibilities other than people not using the correct length bolts ( which isn't the fault of the spacer ), the design the op has used can ( and in this instance has ) failed due to being under stress.
Kent Border Kenny said:
rufusgti said:
Can people honestly not get their head around wheel spacers... I'm imagining a bunch of guys in chinos, driving round in 6 month old diesel Audis, calling themselves car enthusiasts. .
That’s weird, I picture those who do use them hanging around a KFC in tracksuit trousers in clapped-out Saxos with loud stereos and talking about how they did an R8 on the bypass on their way back from college the other night.
touche!! I asked for that admittedly!
SuperPav said:
You're making the assumption that the aftermarket longer wheel studs/bolts you'd need with the bolt-through spacers aren't made to the same cheap specification/grade as the bolt-on ones and can't be overstretched through incorrect installation either.
Either design CAN work absolutely fine, assuming it's a) designed properly for the loads, b) manufactured from the appropriate grade materials, and c) properly installed i.e. not over or under-torqued.
I'm not making any assumptions. I don't have to, I don't use them. You can tell by looking at the ones in the initial pics that they simply can't be as safe as bolt throughs. The bolts a user chooses is not the bolt through spacers fault.Either design CAN work absolutely fine, assuming it's a) designed properly for the loads, b) manufactured from the appropriate grade materials, and c) properly installed i.e. not over or under-torqued.
Mave said:
How about if they're not flat, or the spigot is essentric, or they have the wrong surface finish?
They would still be inherently safer than the ones the op used. Because they're aren't under the same duress as the ones we're talking about.I'm not saying it's impossible to make the design in this thread safe, but I don't see the need when bolt throughs eliminate the problem the op suffered.
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