RE: Ineos confirms Mercedes factory acquisition
Discussion
unsprung said:
The argument that you offer does not address where the EU is going. And what a federal Europe, with unified government and single currency, will eventually require.
Ah, the last vestigal remnants of "Project Leave"!Federal Europe is a pipe dream of some but there is little appetite for such a construct through most member states. Like Turkey joining the EU, the fact that some people think it is a good idea doesn't mean it will happen. Like the EU Army, unlikely to happen. Also, things that we could have veto'd if we were still members. And just to be Devil's Advocate, why would that matter to me if I was paid in Euros rather than Sterling? Why would it matter to me that my elected representatives went to Brussels rather than London?
As for Boris Johnson going "cap in hand" to the North. Like all tories he will forget we exist until the next GE.
CS Garth said:
It’s not in the EU. The choice of factory makes perfect sense. It’s just the rank hypocrisy of the bloke that most people are struggling with.
Why in the EU !! seem to remember Radcliffe was waffling on about selling to Africa and other developing nations the commonwealth and the British ,army aid agency’s etc You are looking for a place for your factory. Who is offering you the best rates/terms/etc?
That'll come in won't it? You can't blame him for changing stance if those in charge don't run the ship how you think it should have been run?
No petrol or diesel sales from 2030 in the UK, will that have come into it?
How will the large brick be powered in the years to come?
Is it just a halo product for what new lines that he plans next?
That'll come in won't it? You can't blame him for changing stance if those in charge don't run the ship how you think it should have been run?
No petrol or diesel sales from 2030 in the UK, will that have come into it?
How will the large brick be powered in the years to come?
Is it just a halo product for what new lines that he plans next?
Hugo Stiglitz said:
You are looking for a place for your factory. Who is offering you the best rates/terms/etc?
That'll come in won't it? You can't blame him for changing stance if those in charge don't run the ship how you think it should have been run?
No petrol or diesel sales from 2030 in the UK, will that have come into it?
How will the large brick be powered in the years to come?
Is it just a halo product for what new lines that he plans next?
That'll come in won't it? You can't blame him for changing stance if those in charge don't run the ship how you think it should have been run?
No petrol or diesel sales from 2030 in the UK, will that have come into it?
How will the large brick be powered in the years to come?
Is it just a halo product for what new lines that he plans next?
That’s just us fluffy woke greenwash nations the
Rest of the world is just looking forward to cheaper oil ...
powerstroke said:
Macboy said:
Are you a teenaged entrepreneur? You made a categoric fact-based statement about the competition and it was pointed out to you that your facts - often quoted by others where Grenadier is mentioned - are wholely incorrect. "Whatever!!" is the best acknowledgement of your Trumpian post-truth approach to winning the argument.
Are you just here for an argument??First new Hilux I bought was£ 9300 plus vat in 1990 (G reg!! )The most recent one a few pence short of 20 ,000 plus VAT 2019 on a 69 plate hopefully that clears things up for you ...
As a walk-up punter I could get a basic Hilux (or an L200, Isuzu or Navarro) for <£23k OTR, that a regular multi-purchase buyer could get another £3k off is scarcely a revelation.
Smiljan said:
CS Garth said:
The people who say back U.K. plc and then, when it comes to investing their own cash, don’t. You can apply this lens to the current situation at leisure
The world is full of broken promises, whining about billionaires filling their pockets seems trite considering most of us help fill those pockets by buying crap we don't need from countries whose labour practices are often borderline slavery whilst funneling said goods through online shopping vendors rather than supporting the high street because it's easier than leaving the sofa.We're all guilty, some of the posts on here are just blindingly naive.
If this company actually starts producing cars and they are decent no one will care where they're made, they'll still buy them. If they were made in Wales and turn out to be a flop, no one will support the company by buying them to "buy British". It's totally fake outrage amplified.
I think however for many Brexit voters they believed that those speaking loudly at the time might act differently.
Personally I’m a realist - Brexit was never going to push back globalisation hence why I believed it was better to be in the European tent.
RP2000 said:
JLR an Indian owned company, building the defender in Slovakia, and your saying you where considering the Ineos purely for its British built status. But now your getting a defender. ??
However the design, IP and engineering was done in the UK by JLR. The engines and many other parts are made in the UK.The Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
B10 said:
However the design, IP and engineering was done in the UK by JLR. The engines and many other parts are made in the UK.
The Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
We currently have a new Defender, one of criteria for buying it was the fact that it wasn't UK made, less chance of it being totally crap and spending more time in garage than being drivenThe Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
In 3 years when it goes back, we'll look at the Ineos PanzerGrenadier, at least it won't be made/assembled in UK, which lessens the chances of poor quality and poor reliability
B10 said:
However the design, IP and engineering was done in the UK by JLR. The engines and many other parts are made in the UK.
The Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
woe betide the man that uses his own money to fund something..for fear of upsetting the moral compass of a twerp on the internet.The Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
where does the money for JLR come from to build your hugely 100% British defender?
do Milly and Rupert dropping 70k on a defender have a bloody clue that JLR is indian owned? no, because JLR slap a Union Jack on it, tells them it will be lovely on a shoot and dexter the black lab will love the dog wash off spray built in to the outdoor life style pod.
yet Jim having the bare faced cheek to throw a load of his own money at something buying in or having a foreign expert design something that will then be sold globaly, THAT'S what offends people?
He isn't selling you his politics he is selling a car., much like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdch were not selling you their ideals but it didn't stop people lapping up the red tops
sam greenock said:
We currently have a new Defender, one of criteria for buying it was the fact that it wasn't UK made, less chance of it being totally crap and spending more time in garage than being driven
In 3 years when it goes back, we'll look at the Ineos PanzerGrenadier, at least it won't be made/assembled in UK, which lessens the chances of poor quality and poor reliability
Why don't you move to Slovakia then?In 3 years when it goes back, we'll look at the Ineos PanzerGrenadier, at least it won't be made/assembled in UK, which lessens the chances of poor quality and poor reliability
Sandpit Steve said:
Jeez, this thread’s worse than the Bentley logistics one.
From a business point of view, probably the right choice. They got offered an operating factory for almost free, or in exchange for F1 sponsorship, and Mercedes doesn’t have to deal with the considerable costs of closing a factory.
From an optical viewpoint, it’s a total mess though. They emphasised the Britishness of the brand, then decide to build it in France, during the time of what might best be described as a delicate political situation between the two countries.
The decision to build in France will almost certainly cost UK sales, probably more so they they were expecting.
This is a neat summary of my views on the matter. From a business point of view, probably the right choice. They got offered an operating factory for almost free, or in exchange for F1 sponsorship, and Mercedes doesn’t have to deal with the considerable costs of closing a factory.
From an optical viewpoint, it’s a total mess though. They emphasised the Britishness of the brand, then decide to build it in France, during the time of what might best be described as a delicate political situation between the two countries.
The decision to build in France will almost certainly cost UK sales, probably more so they they were expecting.
If Ratcliffe has not built up this as a shining example of Britishness, to be built in the UK, we would all be applauding the man. He didn't. Saying one thing, doing another is never a good way to start building your brand.
Hazmat1 said:
woe betide the man that uses his own money to fund something..for fear of upsetting the moral compass of a twerp on the internet.
where does the money for JLR come from to build your hugely 100% British defender?
do Milly and Rupert dropping 70k on a defender have a bloody clue that JLR is indian owned? no, because JLR slap a Union Jack on it, tells them it will be lovely on a shoot and dexter the black lab will love the dog wash off spray built in to the outdoor life style pod.
yet Jim having the bare faced cheek to throw a load of his own money at something buying in or having a foreign expert design something that will then be sold globaly, THAT'S what offends people?
He isn't selling you his politics he is selling a car., much like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdch were not selling you their ideals but it didn't stop people lapping up the red tops
As someone up thread has already said JLR pay tax here in the UK and employ approximately 40k people. Yes they build the defender in Slovakia and that (from a British POV) is regrettable as that 40k could have been 45k.where does the money for JLR come from to build your hugely 100% British defender?
do Milly and Rupert dropping 70k on a defender have a bloody clue that JLR is indian owned? no, because JLR slap a Union Jack on it, tells them it will be lovely on a shoot and dexter the black lab will love the dog wash off spray built in to the outdoor life style pod.
yet Jim having the bare faced cheek to throw a load of his own money at something buying in or having a foreign expert design something that will then be sold globaly, THAT'S what offends people?
He isn't selling you his politics he is selling a car., much like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdch were not selling you their ideals but it didn't stop people lapping up the red tops
What offends people isn't so much Ineos making what is in fact probably a perfectly sensible business decision, it is what went before it and how that was used by the press and the government to manipulate people in a way that would shore up support for Brexit e.g.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1179757/ineos-ne...
"A bold new era for British car-making was announced this week with production of the Grenadier, a new 4x4, to be located in Bridgend, South Wales, providing 500 skilled jobs. With almost every other car maker cutting back on UK production, this is a huge vote of confidence in post-Brexit Britain and its industrial future."
The UK government was tweeting about this at the time:
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1174344...
If you can't understand why that might be a little annoying to those of us with reservations about how sensible the Brexit project is then I think you may need to question your own intelligence rather than shouting at other people.
Hazmat1 said:
B10 said:
However the design, IP and engineering was done in the UK by JLR. The engines and many other parts are made in the UK.
The Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
woe betide the man that uses his own money to fund something..for fear of upsetting the moral compass of a twerp on the internet.The Ineos Gonorrhoea is wholly engineered in Germany / Austria using German made 6 pot engines (not the 4 cylinder Birmingham made BMW engines). All bodywork comes from outside the UK.
I would have minded less if the car was actually developed in the UK as car assembly these days is more about where the constitute parts come from than the actual car assembly. As for Brexit and the Ineos leader I think it shows how out of touch he is.
where does the money for JLR come from to build your hugely 100% British defender?
do Milly and Rupert dropping 70k on a defender have a bloody clue that JLR is indian owned? no, because JLR slap a Union Jack on it, tells them it will be lovely on a shoot and dexter the black lab will love the dog wash off spray built in to the outdoor life style pod.
yet Jim having the bare faced cheek to throw a load of his own money at something buying in or having a foreign expert design something that will then be sold globaly, THAT'S what offends people?
He isn't selling you his politics he is selling a car., much like Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdch were not selling you their ideals but it didn't stop people lapping up the red tops
Maldini35 said:
New name to be announced shortly:
Der INEOS PANZERGRENADIER
Designed by a German team (working for a Canadian company)
Using BMW engines.
Built in France
Owned by a Monaco tax exile.
A true British success story!
Engineered by an Austrian team led by Germans but everything else points to a British success story! It is owned by a British company in fairness which is, in turn owned by three tax exiles...Der INEOS PANZERGRENADIER
Designed by a German team (working for a Canadian company)
Using BMW engines.
Built in France
Owned by a Monaco tax exile.
A true British success story!
unsprung said:
This topic of "in v out" comes up, unsurprisingly, in a number of threads.
Here's what people too often forget:
If you would like to join others on the path to becoming a subordinate state in a federal Europe -- with centralised government and unified currency managed outside the UK -- then Brexit will have been a disappointment.
But that opportunity, to me, is not what Britain has been about.
In what way was the UK, one of the very largest presences in the EU, subortinate or going to become subordinate? Here's what people too often forget:
If you would like to join others on the path to becoming a subordinate state in a federal Europe -- with centralised government and unified currency managed outside the UK -- then Brexit will have been a disappointment.
But that opportunity, to me, is not what Britain has been about.
We kept our own currency, were in no danger of having it taken away, and were foundational in much of the EC's thinking in many areas.
B10 said:
sam greenock said:
We currently have a new Defender, one of criteria for buying it was the fact that it wasn't UK made, less chance of it being totally crap and spending more time in garage than being driven
In 3 years when it goes back, we'll look at the Ineos PanzerGrenadier, at least it won't be made/assembled in UK, which lessens the chances of poor quality and poor reliability
Why don't you move to Slovakia then?In 3 years when it goes back, we'll look at the Ineos PanzerGrenadier, at least it won't be made/assembled in UK, which lessens the chances of poor quality and poor reliability
This may come as a bit of a surprise to you ( maybe you should sit down) but UK cars ( apart from the Japanese/German owned ones) are pretty crap on the reliability, quality and customer service fronts - why anyone would buy British for many things escapes me, but hey my clothes are made in Vietnam - so I'm off to join the Viet-Cong
Edited by sam greenock on Wednesday 9th December 15:10
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