RE: Ineos confirms Mercedes factory acquisition
Discussion
the inability to split one bloke wanting to vote leave and starting a car company is staggering
if the Merc factory was available at the time of launch then it would have been the choice then as it is now, would it be better to have opened in wales only to then close the facility and have to move? or worse still close the company completely as it was no longer viable? but chalk it up as a plucky British motor industry story?
as for the Gov tweeting about 500 jobs? it illustrates how f
king desperate and stupid people were to drink the leave cool aid they would grasp onto the thinnest thread.
if the car is fit for purpose it will sell, if it isn't then it wont
whether jim drowns kittens on weekends (brexit) isn't going to have anything to do with its competence to do the job its been designed for.
as for the move to Slovakia comment? that's one rung up from 'go back to where you came from'
if the Merc factory was available at the time of launch then it would have been the choice then as it is now, would it be better to have opened in wales only to then close the facility and have to move? or worse still close the company completely as it was no longer viable? but chalk it up as a plucky British motor industry story?
as for the Gov tweeting about 500 jobs? it illustrates how f
king desperate and stupid people were to drink the leave cool aid they would grasp onto the thinnest thread.if the car is fit for purpose it will sell, if it isn't then it wont
whether jim drowns kittens on weekends (brexit) isn't going to have anything to do with its competence to do the job its been designed for.
as for the move to Slovakia comment? that's one rung up from 'go back to where you came from'
sam greenock said:
So you think that all the owners/buyers cars made in Japan, EU, USA, Argentina, China should upsticks and move there then too?
This may come as a bit of a surprise to you ( maybe you should sit down) but UK cars ( apart from the Japanese/German owned ones) are pretty crap on the reliability, quality and customer service fronts - why anyone would buy British for many things escapes me, but hey my clothes are made in Vietnam - so I'm off to join the Viet-Cong
Is this comment meant to antagonise? This may come as a bit of a surprise to you ( maybe you should sit down) but UK cars ( apart from the Japanese/German owned ones) are pretty crap on the reliability, quality and customer service fronts - why anyone would buy British for many things escapes me, but hey my clothes are made in Vietnam - so I'm off to join the Viet-Cong
Edited by sam greenock on Wednesday 9th December 15:10
I'm a brexiteer and I'm very much looking forward to the Ineos Grenadier.
My reasons for voting Brexit extend beyond financial benefits and consequences.
People that vote Brexit and then move to another country have their own reasons. Those reasons may be financial, but it's really nobody else's business but theirs. A sizeable chunk of the population would, too, if they were in a similar situation.
My reasons for voting Brexit extend beyond financial benefits and consequences.
People that vote Brexit and then move to another country have their own reasons. Those reasons may be financial, but it's really nobody else's business but theirs. A sizeable chunk of the population would, too, if they were in a similar situation.
Sensei Rob said:
I'm a brexiteer and I'm very much looking forward to the Ineos Grenadier.
My reasons for voting Brexit extend beyond financial benefits and consequences.
People that vote Brexit and then move to another country have their own reasons. Those reasons may be financial, but it's really nobody else's business but theirs. A sizeable chunk of the population would, too, if they were in a similar situation.
A sizeable chunk of the population might like to be able to retire to Spain or Portugal, might like to be able to work in Germany or Poland by just getting on a train and going there. But now thanks to Brexit we can't. Billionaires can live pretty much anywhere they choose. Billionaires telling us that Brexit was a great idea and then moving to tax exile and taking their manufacturing with them is the height of hypocrisy. If he had always said that he was going to build this thing in Korea, France or wherever I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid. Just another Brexit liar.My reasons for voting Brexit extend beyond financial benefits and consequences.
People that vote Brexit and then move to another country have their own reasons. Those reasons may be financial, but it's really nobody else's business but theirs. A sizeable chunk of the population would, too, if they were in a similar situation.
If you are being honest and saying that you voted for Brexit for reasons beyond financial benefits, well that is OK for you. I expect the car workers of Sunderland, Swindon and Derby love their blue passports too.
So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.
You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
NGK210 said:
oilit said:
...
I am sure if the public get their way the next will be Mr L Hamilton - another tax exile....
1. Didn’t support BrexitI am sure if the public get their way the next will be Mr L Hamilton - another tax exile....
2. Employed by a German company
3. Doesn’t work in the UK, apart from one ‘long weekend’ annually. (OK, so this year it was actually two.)
4. Every British F1 driver since Jim Clark was a tax exile, ditto Colin McRae, Richard Burns and Steve Soper, among others. Yet I don’t recall anyone being snarky about their non-relationship with HMRC. Hmm, why’s that, then?
Well here we go again another company/product selling on its British heritage, with a very historical name.
This added to the fact the Landrover Discovery and New Defender aren’t built it Britain is a disgrace.
I think I would rather buy a Nissan built in The North East at least it is more honest of its origins.
It is about time if you want to trade on Britishness or heritage a product has to be produced in Britain !1
From my own experience I hope they never want to close the factory in France as this is very difficult and very expensive.
There feel much better now off for a G&T 👍👍👍
This added to the fact the Landrover Discovery and New Defender aren’t built it Britain is a disgrace.
I think I would rather buy a Nissan built in The North East at least it is more honest of its origins.
It is about time if you want to trade on Britishness or heritage a product has to be produced in Britain !1
From my own experience I hope they never want to close the factory in France as this is very difficult and very expensive.
There feel much better now off for a G&T 👍👍👍
Castrol for a knave said:
So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.
You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Indeed. That's a safe and reliable, known quantity European 'oven ready' rather than the utter bYou're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
ks spouted by the compulsive liar in chief here.Castrol for a knave said:
So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.
You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Can't blame him for doing it. Though you also can understand that until relatively recently, the UK was "within frictionless borders and access to EU funds" and some people are sad that isn't the case any more.You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
crofty1984 said:
Castrol for a knave said:
So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.
You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Can't blame him for doing it. Though you also can understand that until relatively recently, the UK was "within frictionless borders and access to EU funds" and some people are sad that isn't the case any more.You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
We can put up with all sorts of gremlins in our offroaders, as long as their British build issues.
The other issue is, frankly, he's fannied about too long with this. It's now clear he needs EV tech to stand any change of a mid-term future. The likes of JLR could leapfrog with a fully electric Defender.
Castrol for a knave said:
So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.
You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Firstly, look up the word "Libertarian" I suspect you will find that it means the polar opposite of what you think it means.You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Secondly, it's not the business decision it is the lies and deceit that rankles. If I was in his position I would probably do the same but then I wouldn't have got involved in the Brexit debate pushing the advantages of Brexit and then doubled down by proposing a new car manufacturing facility in Wales before moving it into the EU.
Rumblestripe said:
Castrol for a knave said:
So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.
You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Firstly, look up the word "Libertarian" I suspect you will find that it means the polar opposite of what you think it means.You're moving toward bringing a new product to an international market, and somebody offers you an oven ready high spec facility, with just add water skilled workforce and supply chain, within frictionless borders and access to EU funds, if needed. What would you do?
Secondly, it's not the business decision it is the lies and deceit that rankles. If I was in his position I would probably do the same but then I wouldn't have got involved in the Brexit debate pushing the advantages of Brexit and then doubled down by proposing a new car manufacturing facility in Wales before moving it into the EU.
I'm not saying I like the man but what he has done makes sense.
Sandpit Steve said:
sideways sid said:
From the perspective of Ratliffe/Ineos, was there any good commercial reason to build the Grenadier in Wales?
As with TVR, significant investment from the Welsh Government to attract skilled manufacturing to an area in need of regeneration and good jobs. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a small delay as the engines are replaced by Merc units rather than BMW units. Does seem a big tie up between INEOS and Mercedes Benz. They sponsor the Mercedes F1 out fit. So would not be surprised to see them swap the BMW engines to Merc Units. Especially now effectively helping MB with their exit from the Smart facility. Won't be long until Toto Wolf invests in it! haha!
Markv8v said:
Well here we go again another company/product selling on its British heritage, with a very historical name.
This added to the fact the Landrover Discovery and New Defender aren’t built it Britain is a disgrace.
I think I would rather buy a Nissan built in The North East at least it is more honest of its origins.
It is about time if you want to trade on Britishness or heritage a product has to be produced in Britain !1
There feel much better now off for a G&T ??????
Just like the Cornish pasty! This added to the fact the Landrover Discovery and New Defender aren’t built it Britain is a disgrace.
I think I would rather buy a Nissan built in The North East at least it is more honest of its origins.
It is about time if you want to trade on Britishness or heritage a product has to be produced in Britain !1
There feel much better now off for a G&T ??????
Digga said:
Trouble is, it's an ugly stepchild of a product. The only people that might have taken to it were the (patriotic and jingoistic) Brits who now, IMHO, will probably ignore it.
We can put up with all sorts of gremlins in our offroaders, as long as their British build issues.
Is it my imagination or did people think along similar lines when the Germans took over MINI? Thats been rather successful.....and Brits seem to be buying them.We can put up with all sorts of gremlins in our offroaders, as long as their British build issues.
Stumason10 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a small delay as the engines are replaced by Merc units rather than BMW units. Does seem a big tie up between INEOS and Mercedes Benz. They sponsor the Mercedes F1 out fit. So would not be surprised to see them swap the BMW engines to Merc Units. Especially now effectively helping MB with their exit from the Smart facility. Won't be long until Toto Wolf invests in it! haha!
Sold through Mercedes Commercial division? It's been a very long time since the G-wagon was a relatively inexpensive 4x4 vehicle and this would perhaps fit nicely along their other dedicated 4x4 vehicle (god why do I STILL want a Unimog - I think I need therapy). Suddenly with global distribution and an apparent range - would all become a lot easier, even if the new Panzer Grenadier (gosh that made me chuckle) title was a little watered down - would they even create a sub-brand to market it?
Bearing in mind the history of the 'Panzer Grenadier' name (though I have never come across any especially detrimental references linked to the units) I guess they would want to chuck the whole 'Grenadier' thing altogether though.
Edited by Numeric on Wednesday 9th December 17:46
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