RE: Ineos confirms Mercedes factory acquisition

[Rumblestripe]

Castrol for a knave said:

I know what libertarian means (in an economic sense here),

No, clearly you don't. Firstly, Libertarianism is a political philosophy not an economic one. But where it does touch on economics it emphasizes free market economics entirely the opposite of your statement

Castrol for a knave said:

So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.

"Libertarians" would entirely approve of him making a decision based on free market opportunity.

Use google.

[HocusPocus]

So where are all the haters raging for Sir Jim to be stripped of his knighthood??

Sir Jim has taken a rational commercial decision. So message to UK is to take a critical look in the mirror after removing the rose tints and then sharpen its pencil....btw that starts with you, Boris. Anyone up for a bit of competition?

[Castrol for a knave]

Rumblestripe said:

Castrol for a knave said:

I know what libertarian means (in an economic sense here),

No, clearly you don't. Firstly, Libertarianism is a political philosophy not an economic one. But where it does touch on economics it emphasizes free market economics entirely the opposite of your statement

Castrol for a knave said:

So many social and economic libertarians seem to be wringing their hands when a businessman does businessman stuff.

"Libertarians" would entirely approve of him making a decision based on free market opportunity.

Use google.

You've misunderstood my post.

What he has done is exactly in keeping with economic libertarianism (probably why he was for Brexit - he saw the EU as large, interventionist government), except those that shout loudly about it in other forums, seem to have taken umbrage at what he has done.

[Geoffscars]

No one seems to be mentioning the welsh government failiure to build a new M4
It regularly takes me 3 hours (45 miles) to get back from Bristol
Imagine what that would do to supply chains drivers hours etc
Once they decided to abandon the new road the writing was on the wall
The delays can only get worse

[Sandpit Steve]

Geoffscars said:

No one seems to be mentioning the welsh government failiure to build a new M4
It regularly takes me 3 hours (45 miles) to get back from Bristol
Imagine what that would do to supply chains drivers hours etc
Once they decided to abandon the new road the writing was on the wall
The delays can only get worse

That’s a fair point, as was first noted more than a quarter of a century ago as the new bridge opened, and the bottleneck shifted West a bit to the Brynglas tunnels. The Welsh gov are going to struggle with attracting investment, if they can’t first do the basics like sorting the infrastructure.

[powerstroke]

Sandpit Steve said:

That’s a fair point, as was first noted more than a quarter of a century ago as the new bridge opened, and the bottleneck shifted West a bit to the Brynglas tunnels. The Welsh gov are going to struggle with attracting investment, if they can’t first do the basics like sorting the infrastructure.

I guess they will have more important things to do
Like cutting Co2 and building cycle lanes !!!!

[MadDog1962]

Rumblestripe said:

Another proponent of Brexit showing his true colours. What happened to the Bridgend manufacturing site?

Leaving aside nationalistic concerns, commercial realities seem to have prevailed. The Ford plant at Bridgend is an engine plant, not a full-scale car assembly facility. Given the time it would probably take to get planning approvals and construct a new factory it makes complete sense to build the Grenadier at Hambach. Don't forget that there will supposedly be no domestic market for new diesel or petrol SUVs in the UK after 2030. Even if they did want to build it in Bridgend it would probably take an extra 2 years to reach production, which means that the investment will be recouped much more quickly, than going ahead in Hambach.

What I don't get is why JLR could not have built something like this instead of what they have just come up with?

[Digga]

Killboy said:

Digga said:

Trouble is, it's an ugly stepchild of a product. The only people that might have taken to it were the (patriotic and jingoistic) Brits who now, IMHO, will probably ignore it.

We can put up with all sorts of gremlins in our offroaders, as long as their British build issues.

Is it my imagination or did people think along similar lines when the Germans took over MINI? Thats been rather successful.....and Brits seem to be buying them.

You've got that argument all arse about face. Would like like me to draw you a crayon map of where the Mini is built?

IME the actual ownership is less important to consumers than the origin. Although that's being stretched out beyond the bounds of credibility with Aston Martin nowadays.

[cowboyengineer]

Macboy said:

Rough idea yes. Actual idea no. You haven't bought one in a long time if you think they cost £20k un less you're buying 10,000 a year and getting a special bulk price.

Well I just paid 28+ vat for a landcruiser and 22+vat for a hilux so not exactly the figures you were quoting either.

[oldtimer2]

The only really happy bunnies in this saga must be Mercedes. For them Xmas has come early this year. They have managed to unload an uneconomic plant and all the extreme hassle and expense of terminating a French workforce onto Jim Ratcliffe! Not that he will be too worried I imagine. It will be far easier for him to walk away if it all goes belly up than for Mercedes to do so.

[Maldini35]

oldtimer2 said:

The only really happy bunnies in this saga must be Mercedes. For them Xmas has come early this year. They have managed to unload an uneconomic plant and all the extreme hassle and expense of terminating a French workforce onto Jim Ratcliffe! Not that he will be too worried I imagine. It will be far easier for him to walk away if it all goes belly up than for Mercedes to do so.

Very true - Mercedes have played a blinder!

[AngryPartsBloke]

MadDog1962 said:

What I don't get is why JLR could not have built something like this instead of what they have just come up with?

Because they want to sell more units.

[jagfan2]

MadDog1962 said:

What I don't get is why JLR could not have built something like this instead of what they have just come up with?

Because they want to sell 20k/quarter not per year!

[v8griff]

Rumblestripe said:

Another proponent of Brexit showing his true colours. What happened to the Bridgend manufacturing site?

Well said.

[Killboy]

Digga said:

You've got that argument all arse about face. Would like like me to draw you a crayon map of where the Mini is built?

IME the actual ownership is less important to consumers than the origin. Although that's being stretched out beyond the bounds of credibility with Aston Martin nowadays.

Lol. Are you seriously suggesting people buy based on where the factory is? And if you want to, go ahead, but list all models.

[Digga]

Killboy said:

Digga said:

You've got that argument all arse about face. Would like like me to draw you a crayon map of where the Mini is built?

IME the actual ownership is less important to consumers than the origin. Although that's being stretched out beyond the bounds of credibility with Aston Martin nowadays.

Lol. Are you seriously suggesting people buy based on where the factory is? And if you want to, go ahead, but list all models.

Legacy Land Rover Defender and Discovery Mk1 & 2 owners. Yes.

It's a sickness. There's little logic involved, otherwise they'd all be driving Hiluxes.

[powerstroke]

Digga said:

Legacy Land Rover Defender and Discovery Mk1 & 2 owners. Yes.

It's a sickness. There's little logic involved, otherwise they'd all be driving Hiluxes.

So today I learn a good friend has sold his 15 plate twisted defender 110 and has a brand new jeep rubicon
Well seems it’s some bit of kit cross axle diff locks
Ladder chassis and solid axles with sway bar disconnects Proper off road no pretender eh ..

[Digga]

powerstroke said:

Digga said:

Legacy Land Rover Defender and Discovery Mk1 & 2 owners. Yes.

It's a sickness. There's little logic involved, otherwise they'd all be driving Hiluxes.

So today I learn a good friend has sold his 15 plate twisted defender 110 and has a brand new jeep rubicon
Well seems it’s some bit of kit cross axle diff locks
Ladder chassis and solid axles with sway bar disconnects Proper off road no pretender eh ..

Lockdown has been tough on a lot of people. Did he buy a Harley Davidson too?

You need to get help to him before he buys a "Trump" hat.

[B10]

sam greenock said:

B10 said:

sam greenock said:

We currently have a new Defender, one of criteria for buying it was the fact that it wasn't UK made, less chance of it being totally crap and spending more time in garage than being driven

In 3 years when it goes back, we'll look at the Ineos PanzerGrenadier, at least it won't be made/assembled in UK, which lessens the chances of poor quality and poor reliability

Why don't you move to Slovakia then?

So you think that all the owners/buyers cars made in Japan, EU, USA, Argentina, China should upsticks and move there then too?

This may come as a bit of a surprise to you ( maybe you should sit down) but UK cars ( apart from the Japanese/German owned ones) are pretty crap on the reliability, quality and customer service fronts - why anyone would buy British for many things escapes me, but hey my clothes are made in Vietnam - so I'm off to join the Viet-Cong

Edited by sam greenock on Wednesday 9th December 15:10

Of course not dear. It is just the blanket comments from UK people who continually put down UK products. Yes some flack is justified but this continual rubbishing is just pathetic and unhelpful. So I hit back with an equally pathetic comment. Grow up, take pride in the UK, perhaps do something to improve quality and productivity rather than whingeing.

[TheOrangePeril]

PeteinSQ said:

TheOrangePeril said:

100% this!

Well those employees would have earned a salary, paid tax on their income and on the goods and services they could have bought. Their spending would have also supported other jobs. Instead those would be employees will he unemployed and have to be supported by the state and the state will have less money to support public service. It is not that hard to understand.

Those employees will earn a salary, pay tax on their income and on the goods and services they can buy. Their spending will also support other jobs. All of this will occur regardless of which country they are in.
It is not that hard to understand.