RE: Ineos confirms Mercedes factory acquisition

[smn159]

Those Brexiteer hypocrites in full;

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/12/09/brexiters-fled-...

[otolith]

Sunlit uplands.

[Digga]

otolith said:

Sunlit uplands.

Is that what Ineos are calling the canvas softop version?

[anonymous-user]

jagfan2 said:

MadDog1962 said:

What I don't get is why JLR could not have built something like this instead of what they have just come up with?

Because they want to sell 20k/quarter not per year!

It's far simpler than that, because they don't want to go bust!

[sideways sid]

Sandpit Steve said:

sideways sid said:

From the perspective of Ratliffe/Ineos, was there any good commercial reason to build the Grenadier in Wales?

As with TVR, significant investment from the Welsh Government to attract skilled manufacturing to an area in need of regeneration and good jobs.

With respect, those are good reasons for Wales, not for the company.

Given the cost, risk, uncertainty and aggravation of building, equipping and staffing a new factory - cash inducement aside - the obvious commercial option was to move into one that is up and running. With the massive Brexit uncertainty when the deal was done, the coincidental advantages of it being within Europe in terms of supply chain, logistics etc would also seem irrefutable.

[eliot]

Numeric said:

(god why do I STILL want a Unimog - I think I need therapy).

Nope - you need to get it done.

[sam greenock]

JerryF said:

Is this comment meant to antagonise?

That depends on how one would take it, but alas I was calling out the inane drivel of a question that was asked of me

[AB1canotbee]

oilit said:

You have to be knighted, and then move so you don't have to pay your UK taxes, and then vote for Brexit, and then invest anywhere except the UK.

To varying degrees I think all of the below can tick at least two of those above.

James Dyson
Richard Branson
Jim Ratcliffe
Phillip Green

I am sure if the public get their way the next will be Mr L Hamilton - another tax exile....

100% right there, but not surprising........after all, money/greed is the only basis for all human activity, and has always been so.As the saying goes.....Remember the golden rule...." He who has the Gold makes the rules" so just get used to it.

[sam greenock]

Markv8v said:

Well here we go again another company/product selling on its British heritage, with a very historical name.
This added to the fact the Landrover Discovery and New Defender aren’t built it Britain is a disgrace.

I think I would rather buy a Nissan built in The North East at least it is more honest of its origins.

It is about time if you want to trade on Britishness or heritage a product has to be produced in Britain !1

From my own experience I hope they never want to close the factory in France as this is very difficult and very expensive.

There feel much better now off for a G&T ??????

So therefore all welsh Rarebit should be made in Wales, French Dressing only from France ( Brexit screws that up though) Scotch Broth can only be made in Scotland along with Scotch Eggs and Scotch sticky tape. Whatabout an Empire Biscuit, Danish Pastries, battenberg cake, etc etc etc?

[sam greenock]

B10 said:

Grow up, take pride in the UK,

HA HA HA - why should I or anyone else for that matter take pride in the UK, it's an artificial construct that many of the component parts seem only to keen to leave?

In my lifetime the UK hasn't achieved much, well apart from dodgy wars, the highest income disparity in EU, lowest pensions in EU and many other societal based failings - personally if the UK was on fire I wouldn't cross the street to piss on it. The voters of England have screwed it for everyone else and have done for years but that's what happens when the biggest part of UK has a bigger population than the other 3 bits put together - hence why we're talking about Brexit - Both Northern Ireland and Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain but that didn't matter in the tory scheme of things, the nutters wanted Brexit, no matter the cost

[B10]

sam greenock said:

B10 said:

Grow up, take pride in the UK,

HA HA HA - why should I or anyone else for that matter take pride in the UK, it's an artificial construct that many of the component parts seem only to keen to leave?

In my lifetime the UK hasn't achieved much, well apart from dodgy wars, the highest income disparity in EU, lowest pensions in EU and many other societal based failings - personally if the UK was on fire I wouldn't cross the street to piss on it. The voters of England have screwed it for everyone else and have done for years but that's what happens when the biggest part of UK has a bigger population than the other 3 bits put together - hence why we're talking about Brexit - Both Northern Ireland and Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain but that didn't matter in the tory scheme of things, the nutters wanted Brexit, no matter the cost

I agree about the pointlessness of Brexit and our political shambles. However to say "UK hasn't achieved much", in the context of UK manufacturing and engineering is sadly ignorant. I stick by my original comment; move to Slovakia.

[jhoneyball]

i recall reading somewhere (sorry cant remember where) that mb were fairly desperate to get out of the factory, without having to engage with the french unions.

so ineos were an ideal candidate for offloading the place to rather cheaply

[anonymous-user]

jhoneyball said:

i recall reading somewhere (sorry cant remember where) that mb were fairly desperate to get out of the factory, without having to engage with the french unions.

so ineos were an ideal candidate for offloading the place to rather cheaply

I wonder how long Ineos will persist before getting bored of all the crap that goes with building cars for little or no profit?

[Killboy]

B10 said:

I agree about the pointlessness of Brexit and our political shambles. However to say "UK hasn't achieved much", in the context of UK manufacturing and engineering is sadly ignorant. I stick by my original comment; move to Slovakia.

That will probably be a good option for those in manufacturing or engineering soon. If they can get a working visa.

[Sharpoleeds]

Lewis Hamilton may not be a UK resident / or pay UK taxes but he doesn't employ thousands of people either. Most really high paid sportsman are Isle of Man / Jersey / Monaco residents?

[Chris C2]

Honda Swindon would have made sense even without the engine section - they built the CRV there so it would have fitted and a manufacturing team used to Japanese quality/reliability standards would have given it a major marketing advantage over Land Rover. This government hadn't the sense to make it happen.

Building the Smart reminds me of when the Rover 75 moved to Longbridge - due to tight corners they had trouble getting it to fit on the production line. Grenadier might have similar problems in the Smart plant but apparently an SUV was being planned for it.

Bit of a bonus that they will continue to build the Smart under contract but going from nothing to a large 1200 employee plant will take some management skills.

The Portugal plant was to be for chassis and Body In White - the Grenadier is fairly labour intensive so I hope the labour and investment costs in France won't screw things up compared to Portugal.

Grenadier is designed by a bunch of former Mercedes Benz engineers. Smart factory owned by Mercedes Benz. Go figure.... Still doesn't explain a BMW engine though (which is a shame not to be made at the UK Hams Hall plant)

[rpguk]

Ah well, at least we've got that trade deal with Kenya sorted. Maybe we can start converting these factories to make Safari wagons or something?

[jagfan2]

Chris C2 said:

Grenadier is designed by a bunch of former Mercedes Benz engineers. Smart factory owned by Mercedes Benz. Go figure.... Still doesn't explain a BMW engine though (which is a shame not to be made at the UK Hams Hall plant)

Yeah BMW recently announced the V8 and V12 is going to hams hall (though knew about the V12 already and obvious as the main customer is RR), and the V8 is destined to be shared with JLR so kinda makes sense. 6 is moving to Steyr it seems but still good for ineos now, and ZF trans from Germany

[Digga]

jagfan2 said:

Yeah BMW recently announced the V8 and V12 is going to hams hall (though knew about the V12 already and obvious as the main customer is RR), and the V8 is destined to be shared with JLR so kinda makes sense. 6 is moving to Steyr it seems but still good for ineos now, and ZF trans from Germany

BMW seem to be sharing quite a bit with JLR. The latter were ahead in the EV game and are sharing tech. Alongside the BMW engine plant in Hams Hall, JLR are building a huge battery plant.

[rastapasta]

sideways sid said:

Sandpit Steve said:

sideways sid said:

From the perspective of Ratliffe/Ineos, was there any good commercial reason to build the Grenadier in Wales?

As with TVR, significant investment from the Welsh Government to attract skilled manufacturing to an area in need of regeneration and good jobs.

With respect, those are good reasons for Wales, not for the company.

Given the cost, risk, uncertainty and aggravation of building, equipping and staffing a new factory - cash inducement aside - the obvious commercial option was to move into one that is up and running. With the massive Brexit uncertainty when the deal was done, the coincidental advantages of it being within Europe in terms of supply chain, logistics etc would also seem irrefutable.

There should have been better tax incentives for him to choose wales. If he got a tax break for the first 10 odd years for example and then drop the corporation tax to below Irish levels. Then maybe his head could've been turned.