RE: Ineos confirms Mercedes factory acquisition
Discussion
Jeez, this thread’s worse than the Bentley logistics one.
From a business point of view, probably the right choice. They got offered an operating factory for almost free, or in exchange for F1 sponsorship, and Mercedes doesn’t have to deal with the considerable costs of closing a factory.
From an optical viewpoint, it’s a total mess though. They emphasised the Britishness of the brand, then decide to build it in France, during the time of what might best be described as a delicate political situation between the two countries.
The decision to build in France will almost certainly cost UK sales, probably more so they they were expecting.
From a business point of view, probably the right choice. They got offered an operating factory for almost free, or in exchange for F1 sponsorship, and Mercedes doesn’t have to deal with the considerable costs of closing a factory.
From an optical viewpoint, it’s a total mess though. They emphasised the Britishness of the brand, then decide to build it in France, during the time of what might best be described as a delicate political situation between the two countries.
The decision to build in France will almost certainly cost UK sales, probably more so they they were expecting.
oilit said:
...
I am sure if the public get their way the next will be Mr L Hamilton - another tax exile....
1. Didn’t support BrexitI am sure if the public get their way the next will be Mr L Hamilton - another tax exile....
2. Employed by a German company
3. Doesn’t work in the UK, apart from one ‘long weekend’ annually. (OK, so this year it was actually two.)
4. Every British F1 driver since Jim Clark was a tax exile, ditto Colin McRae, Richard Burns and Steve Soper, among others. Yet I don’t recall anyone being snarky about their non-relationship with HMRC. Hmm, why’s that, then?
RP2000 said:
JLR an Indian owned company, building the defender in Slovakia, and your saying you where considering the Ineos purely for its British built status. But now your getting a defender. ??
So while the defender is built in Slovakia, JLR is a UK company, employing thousands of UK workers c 20k i think, , plus many more in UK supply chains, so probably 30-50k people tota, of which hundreds if not thousands will have been involved in the design and development of the defender . They also report financials in the UK and pay tax on those (152m last year i think), as do all those employees, vs the 4k or so employed in Slovakia. And as currently there is no import tax, the EU doesnt benefit from him buying a car built there, other than employing the workers, as much as we UK do?After brexit with a no deal, the car will go up #5-8k, which the uk will get in import revenue, it wouldn't if it was made in the UK yes, though wouldnt if he didnt buiy it, however most of its competitors are imported so all will go up by a similar amount. However in Europe (and other countries that have a FTA with EU) JLRs 2nd or 3rd largest market, it will remain competitive as no import tariff, vs their UK made cars that wont, so will hurt sales of more profitable SUVs.
This is the same case for INEOS - UK manufactured cars wont be competitive unless it has an FTA and it doesnt look like we will get one, so will sell more cars if built in the EU, so done deal on an EU factory
powerstroke said:
Looked good as a British made truck
Looks totally pointless now and will
Have to complete on merit will be hard
When for instance a Hilux is about 20 k tows 3.5 tons
Has a world wide Service network and proven
Reliability , you can also get a base model Landcruiser for a few thousand more !!!
Close base Hilux (2/3 seat + 150bhp manual, steelies, no options) is £27k - ones people buy are £32k+Looks totally pointless now and will
Have to complete on merit will be hard
When for instance a Hilux is about 20 k tows 3.5 tons
Has a world wide Service network and proven
Reliability , you can also get a base model Landcruiser for a few thousand more !!!
Lancruiser is £37k entry for a 3dr base - ones people buy (5dr auto) are £42k+ (note similar price as a base Defender!!!!)
Obviously these are RRP without VAT, but still your prices are well off unless they are fleet discount prices. Grenadine will be £50k+ but is a 3L auto with decent kit, though post no deal brexit will be £5k more with a tariff now here
powerstroke said:
Macboy said:
Rough idea yes. Actual idea no. You haven't bought one in a long time if you think they cost £20k un less you're buying 10,000 a year and getting a special bulk price.
Whatever !!!!! This thread though 
I wonder how much the UK accounted for projected sales of the Grenadier. It’ll be interesting to see how many of the potential buyers who were all for it because it was to be built in the UK don’t buy it now and if that actually makes any difference to it’s sales success/failure.
Either way if you were looking to buy a utilitarian 4x4 based on some UK manufacturing allegiances, er well just save yourself some hassle and wander down to your local Toyota dealer for a LC/Hilux. They have a dealer network in the UK as do JLR. Though unlike JLR you will get a 5 year warranty (compared to JLRs 3year) that you’re unlikely to have to use anywhere near as much and if you do I’m sure you’ll won’t be treated like a second class citizen because you are at the dealer to do anything other than buy or sign yourself up to a finance agreement on a new one.
Both unknowns for the Grenadier so it is unfair to comment though I’m not convinced on BMW engines durability. Now they are working with Mercedes for Smart production I wonder if an behind closed doors engine partnership discussion is taking place to. Sure the BMW deal is announced, but they also announced it was going to be built in the UK so they’re not shy on going back on things
As a side note what’s going on with the Wales TVR factory? That’s gone a bit quiet, hope that can work out for the local area, but also because a new TVR will give us something to smile about.
I wonder how much the UK accounted for projected sales of the Grenadier. It’ll be interesting to see how many of the potential buyers who were all for it because it was to be built in the UK don’t buy it now and if that actually makes any difference to it’s sales success/failure.
Either way if you were looking to buy a utilitarian 4x4 based on some UK manufacturing allegiances, er well just save yourself some hassle and wander down to your local Toyota dealer for a LC/Hilux. They have a dealer network in the UK as do JLR. Though unlike JLR you will get a 5 year warranty (compared to JLRs 3year) that you’re unlikely to have to use anywhere near as much and if you do I’m sure you’ll won’t be treated like a second class citizen because you are at the dealer to do anything other than buy or sign yourself up to a finance agreement on a new one.
Both unknowns for the Grenadier so it is unfair to comment though I’m not convinced on BMW engines durability. Now they are working with Mercedes for Smart production I wonder if an behind closed doors engine partnership discussion is taking place to. Sure the BMW deal is announced, but they also announced it was going to be built in the UK so they’re not shy on going back on things
As a side note what’s going on with the Wales TVR factory? That’s gone a bit quiet, hope that can work out for the local area, but also because a new TVR will give us something to smile about.
Edited by jwwbowe on Wednesday 9th December 11:25
Macboy said:
Are you a teenaged entrepreneur? You made a categoric fact-based statement about the competition and it was pointed out to you that your facts - often quoted by others where Grenadier is mentioned - are wholely incorrect. "Whatever!!" is the best acknowledgement of your Trumpian post-truth approach to winning the argument.
Are you just here for an argument??First new Hilux I bought was£ 9300 plus vat in 1990 (G reg!! )The most recent one a few pence short of 20 ,000 plus VAT 2019 on a 69 plate hopefully that clears things up for you ...
Smiljan said:
Amazing all the people moaning about Ineos building abroad yet the same people happy to smoke around in their German cars while festooned with cheap tech and clothing from China bought from Amazon.
Who exactly are the hypocrites?
The people who say back U.K. plc and then, when it comes to investing their own cash, don’t. You can apply this lens to the current situation at leisure Who exactly are the hypocrites?
Rumblestripe said:
I could go on.
You've hardly begun.We can agree that the EU is not a bad thing per se. For some member states, it is more than a good thing. It is a fortunate thing.
The UK, however, is not one of those states.
The argument that you offer does not address where the EU is going. And what a federal Europe, with unified government and single currency, will eventually require.
CS Garth said:
The people who say back U.K. plc and then, when it comes to investing their own cash, don’t. You can apply this lens to the current situation at leisure
The world is full of broken promises, whining about billionaires filling their pockets seems trite considering most of us help fill those pockets by buying crap we don't need from countries whose labour practices are often borderline slavery whilst funneling said goods through online shopping vendors rather than supporting the high street because it's easier than leaving the sofa.We're all guilty, some of the posts on here are just blindingly naive.
If this company actually starts producing cars and they are decent no one will care where they're made, they'll still buy them. If they were made in Wales and turn out to be a flop, no one will support the company by buying them to "buy British". It's totally fake outrage amplified.
hepy said:
Welcome to the North of England pal. The U.K. has been run for the benefit of the South East for a long time. Levelling up ain’t going to happen for us.
I believe that I understand.I’ve always felt that UK households would benefit more, and more equitably, if economic opportunity could be less obviously about a job in the southeast.
Some of this of course is down to things like geographical location and the march of technology.
It would also be misleading to suggest that the enormous productivity of, say, financial services in the City can be duplicated everywhere that jobs exist.
Some of this was surely on Boris Johnson’s mind when, after the election, he went cap in hand to the north to say thank you.
Although none of this is anything that I can influence… I can say that whenever I’m in the UK, northerners are more likely than most to address me on the basis of what I say and do than what is printed on the cover of my passport.
unsprung said:
That might be true. But only in the most narrow and theoretical of definitions.
The false equivalency that you make is that you are willing to dismantle the British nation state. Conversely there is no 4x4 vehicle to "dismantle" today. Nor would the theoretical "dismantling" of said 4x4 be equivalent to the subordination that, eventually, a federal Europe will require.
The comparison makes for interesting rhetoric, but is... ridiculous.
The United Kingdom is not a "nation-state", it is a unitary state made up of an Act & Treaty Of union between England and Scotland in 1707, in 1801 Ireland was added into the mix but ended with the independence of Ireland an date establishment of the province of Northern Ireland. As for Wales they've been a principality of England since @13th CenturyThe false equivalency that you make is that you are willing to dismantle the British nation state. Conversely there is no 4x4 vehicle to "dismantle" today. Nor would the theoretical "dismantling" of said 4x4 be equivalent to the subordination that, eventually, a federal Europe will require.
The comparison makes for interesting rhetoric, but is... ridiculous.
Strangely though - Scotland and Northern Ireland are the parts of the UK that overwhelmingly voted to Remain in EU - Northern Ireland are getting a special deal, Scotland is getting hee-haw, yet Blo-Jo and the torieswonder why they aren't popular north of the border and the past 15 opinion polls put Scottish Independence in the majority
In all of this Brexit malarkey I've yet to hear a cogent explanation on how it will directly benefit me and my family. All that talk of a federal EU is just that - talk, proponents of this nonsense forget that the UK ( as every EU member can) veto anything like that
Personally I hope every leave voting brexiteer suffers mightily for their gullibility, stupidity and little englander attitudes - you can be sure that the likes of Ratcliffe, Gove, Greasy-Mugg, Farage and the rest of the pirate crew won't be
Strikes me that Ineos might have been in a slightly better place if the British government hadn't made such a monumental f
k up of the negotiations. How on earth can anybdoy make an informed decision about investment in the UK with the intention of exporting the product when you have absolutely no idea how things will look in just three weeks' time.
k up of the negotiations. How on earth can anybdoy make an informed decision about investment in the UK with the intention of exporting the product when you have absolutely no idea how things will look in just three weeks' time.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff