Will Coronavirus hit used car prices? (Vol 2)
Discussion
Ikemi said:
Never heard of him and I watch way too much YouTube content, >80% being car content.
Definitely not that prominent.
AlexMG said:
I've been in the market for a new daily and wanted to get a good view of the lay of the land.
Polo Blue Gt is a favourite with enough power, good auto box available and low tax so theres a few below but heres some examples of whats out there vs RRP....
That’s a lovely table but what exactly are you hoping it will help you with? We all know prices are historically very high but I’m not sure what help that will give you predicting future depreciation in what is a totally unique set of circumstances right now. Polo Blue Gt is a favourite with enough power, good auto box available and low tax so theres a few below but heres some examples of whats out there vs RRP....
Are car auctions allowing the public to buy again yet? Last time I looked they were still only allowing proven traders access. I wonder how much that could be propping prices up, as the trade jealously gatekeep the supply so they can maintain their inflated profit margins. Seems like something the authorities should be looking at tbh, it's cartel-like behaviour arguably.
Seraph14 said:
Are car auctions allowing the public to buy again yet? Last time I looked they were still only allowing proven traders access. I wonder how much that could be propping prices up, as the trade jealously gatekeep the supply so they can maintain their inflated profit margins. Seems like something the authorities should be looking at tbh, it's cartel-like behaviour arguably.
Nothing to do with it really.In fact letting the public in would push the price the trade has to give up, making retail prices on forecourts higher.
Many auctions do allow the public in though.
Pommy said:
Ahonen said:
chickenbarns said:
-CB
Why do you keep adding this to your posts? I assume your full name isn't Mr Chicken Barns, so you aren't signing your initials.Deep Thought said:
Nothing to do with it really.
In fact letting the public in would push the price the trade has to give up, making retail prices on forecourts higher.
Many auctions do allow the public in though.
If dealers could charge more and get it, they would be doing it now wouldn't they? I admit I am no expert, it just seems to me that it would work like that. The margins some dealers are making must be huge currently, like the Focus I saw for £5000 which is double the trade price. If a member of the public had bid it up to £3000 or £3500 at the auction, the dealer would just have to swallow a lesser profit or go without, surely. In fact letting the public in would push the price the trade has to give up, making retail prices on forecourts higher.
Many auctions do allow the public in though.
Or he could try buying it for £3600 and asking £6100 instead, but that's already been tried and these sort of prices mean the cars just sit there forever unsold.
If it was as simple as more bidders = better for the trade then I don't know why they would have excluded private buyers for so long.
Still trade only here for example:
link said:
Customer notification
We are holding physical auctions at Colchester for Manheim trade account holders only.
No auctions at this time are open to the general public.
https://www.manheim.co.uk/our-centres/colchesterWe are holding physical auctions at Colchester for Manheim trade account holders only.
No auctions at this time are open to the general public.
Edited by Seraph14 on Saturday 17th September 19:11
Edited by Seraph14 on Saturday 17th September 19:12
Seraph14 said:
Deep Thought said:
Nothing to do with it really.
In fact letting the public in would push the price the trade has to give up, making retail prices on forecourts higher.
Many auctions do allow the public in though.
If dealers could charge more and get it, they would be doing it now wouldn't they? I admit I am no expert, it just seems to me that it would work like that. The margins some dealers are making must be huge currently, like the Focus I saw for £5000 which is double the trade price. If a member of the public had bid it up to £3000 or £3500 at the auction, the dealer would just have to swallow a lesser profit or go without, surely. In fact letting the public in would push the price the trade has to give up, making retail prices on forecourts higher.
Many auctions do allow the public in though.
Or he could try buying it for £3600 and asking £6100 instead, but that's already been tried and these sort of prices mean the cars just sit there forever unsold.
If it was as simple as more bidders = better for the trade then I don't know why they would have excluded private buyers for so long.
Still trade only here for example:
link said:
Customer notification
We are holding physical auctions at Colchester for Manheim trade account holders only.
No auctions at this time are open to the general public.
https://www.manheim.co.uk/our-centres/colchesterWe are holding physical auctions at Colchester for Manheim trade account holders only.
No auctions at this time are open to the general public.
Yes, the likes of Manheim and BCA insist on trade only, but there are other auctions that are open to the public, if thats what you're set on doing.
Niponeoff said:
Anyone got that code to block out his posts. I've stopped reading them, but would be even better not to see them.
Tampermonkey - heres how to set it up.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Seraph14 said:
Are car auctions allowing the public to buy again yet? Last time I looked they were still only allowing proven traders access. I wonder how much that could be propping prices up, as the trade jealously gatekeep the supply so they can maintain their inflated profit margins. Seems like something the authorities should be looking at tbh, it's cartel-like behaviour arguably.
BCA have no intention of opening for physical auctions again or to allow "retail" buyers to bid on line.I used to go to the auctions everyday of the week and it was actually quite rare to see retail buyers there, easily spotted by their blue catalogue, they were usually like a rabbit caught in headlights as they hadn't a clue what they were doing and quite often had their bids trotted up and that usually ended with them paying too much money.
If anything the authorities should be vetting the trade buyers and licencing them and only letting those with a licence to buy at auction, which I understands happens in other countries.
As for a cartel-like behaviour, nothing could be further from the truth, auctions were/are hugely competitive and the only people likely to be rigging it are the auctions themselves and, maybe, some of the big sellers but it certainly is not the buyers.
I remember the good old days (pre internet) I used to regularly visit BCA Brighouse and Manchester and there were always the same dealers bidding week in week out who obviously all knew each other,it was common practice for one to say I fancy this next car in lads and the others wouldn't bid, they all took it in turns when it suited them to do the same for each other,not bullet proof but some cheap cars could be had... How do I know.? I was one of them dealers...
CRA1G said:
I remember the good old days (pre internet) I used to regularly visit BCA Brighouse and Manchester and there were always the same dealers bidding week in week out who obviously all knew each other,it was common practice for one to say I fancy this next car in lads and the others wouldn't bid, they all took it in turns when it suited them to do the same for each other,not bullet proof but some cheap cars could be had... How do I know.? I was one of them dealers...
I visited a few car auctions (a good 15 years ago now). As much out of curiosity as on the lookout for a decent barge to replace a company car.I immediately sensed that the dealers were well on top of things in the bidding room and that this was not a level playing field for a raw punter.
[quote=buyer&seller]
You don’t need a VAT number unless non UK.john41901 said:
Believe it’s fairly easy to “claim’ to be a trader, with BCA at least…
You'll need to supply a traders policy and, I think, a VAT number as a minimum, if you can get past that hurdle then it's probably not too difficult.CRA1G said:
I remember the good old days (pre internet) I used to regularly visit BCA Brighouse and Manchester and there were always the same dealers bidding week in week out who obviously all knew each other,it was common practice for one to say I fancy this next car in lads and the others wouldn't bid, they all took it in turns when it suited them to do the same for each other,not bullet proof but some cheap cars could be had... How do I know.? I was one of them dealers...
This is what I mean by cartel-like behaviour. Not saying you were doing anything wrong, it was an informal gentleman's agreement type thing in your case, and I assume there was nothing stopping members of the public upsetting things if they chose to turn up and bid, or indeed another dealer who wasn't in your clique. But the current arrangements seem anti-competitive to me. And when supply is as pathetically low as it is now, I would be surprised if it isn't having an impact. One of my regular Auto Trader searches which I check several times a day is for a Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec, 2011 onwards, 100bhp plus (to avoid the odd 2011 older shape 99bhp), under 90,000 miles (I wouldn't buy one over 70,000 in fact, but I look at the others just to keep an idea of what's available, what the prices are and how quickly they sell), manual, petrol.
Currently within 55 miles there are ten, most of these have been up for months. If I increase it to 60 miles it's 15. (Auto Trader seems to use some sort of 'as the crow flies' measure for distance as well, so '60 miles' is more like 80 or 90 in reality). This area encompasses millions of people and this is one of the most popular and common cars on the road but there's only a handful for sale.
A few of these cars look fine but the prices are so preposterous I would rather crawl over broken glass than pay them, even though I do have the cash sitting in my bank. But why should I give it to some greedy dealer, no I don't think so.
Seraph14 said:
CRA1G said:
I remember the good old days (pre internet) I used to regularly visit BCA Brighouse and Manchester and there were always the same dealers bidding week in week out who obviously all knew each other,it was common practice for one to say I fancy this next car in lads and the others wouldn't bid, they all took it in turns when it suited them to do the same for each other,not bullet proof but some cheap cars could be had... How do I know.? I was one of them dealers...
This is what I mean by cartel-like behaviour. Not saying you were doing anything wrong, it was an informal gentleman's agreement type thing in your case, and I assume there was nothing stopping members of the public upsetting things if they chose to turn up and bid, or indeed another dealer who wasn't in your clique. But the current arrangements seem anti-competitive to me. And when supply is as pathetically low as it is now, I would be surprised if it isn't having an impact. One of my regular Auto Trader searches which I check several times a day is for a Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec, 2011 onwards, 100bhp plus (to avoid the odd 2011 older shape 99bhp), under 90,000 miles (I wouldn't buy one over 70,000 in fact, but I look at the others just to keep an idea of what's available, what the prices are and how quickly they sell), manual, petrol.
Currently within 55 miles there are ten, most of these have been up for months. If I increase it to 60 miles it's 15. (Auto Trader seems to use some sort of 'as the crow flies' measure for distance as well, so '60 miles' is more like 80 or 90 in reality). This area encompasses millions of people and this is one of the most popular and common cars on the road but there's only a handful for sale.
A few of these cars look fine but the prices are so preposterous I would rather crawl over broken glass than pay them, even though I do have the cash sitting in my bank. But why should I give it to some greedy dealer, no I don't think so.
The fact that 15 cars are available within your parameters all at a similar price doesn't make the dealers greedy it just makes you out of touch with the current market.
[quote=buyer&seller]
The fact that 15 cars are available within your parameters all at a similar price doesn't make the dealers greedy it just makes you out of touch with the current market.
[/quote]
Out of touch with the current market, what does that mean please?
Do you mean I don't know how the market currently is? Or do you mean that I should accept that these high prices are somehow reasonable? What constitutes reasonable is a matter of opinion. My opinion and evidently that of most people is that they're too high, or these cars wouldn't sit around for months unsold.
And my opinion is that people selling 10-12 year old cars for a few grand less than they were brand new, is greedy, and they can only do this because of extremely tight supply, which restricting who can attend car auctions is helping to sustain.
The fact that 15 cars are available within your parameters all at a similar price doesn't make the dealers greedy it just makes you out of touch with the current market.
[/quote]
Out of touch with the current market, what does that mean please?
Do you mean I don't know how the market currently is? Or do you mean that I should accept that these high prices are somehow reasonable? What constitutes reasonable is a matter of opinion. My opinion and evidently that of most people is that they're too high, or these cars wouldn't sit around for months unsold.
And my opinion is that people selling 10-12 year old cars for a few grand less than they were brand new, is greedy, and they can only do this because of extremely tight supply, which restricting who can attend car auctions is helping to sustain.
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