Will Coronavirus hit used car prices? (Vol 2)
Discussion
clockworks said:
Are car auctions different to antique auctions then?
A few of my friends and customers frequent the local antique auctions, mostly looking for clocks. We regularly tell each other if there's something any of us are interested in buying, and we don't bid on each other's items. Helps to keep the price down, although of course someone else outside our group might be bidding too.
It happened on Friday. A regular customer told me he was thinking of buying an item, and could I tell him what I thought, and how much it would cost for me to service it. If he hadn't spoken to me I'd have been bidding on it myself. Guide price £500 to £800. I'd have happily bid £900 for it, but my customer got it for £700. Bargain.
At least I'll make a few hundred fixing it for him.
BCA are all on line now so you have no idea who else is logged on and bidding so it's stopped any of what you mention as you've no idea who you're up against. It might happen at smaller regional auctions but the issue is, as you pointed out, if an outsider who's not in the group bids on the car which I'm sure would happen.A few of my friends and customers frequent the local antique auctions, mostly looking for clocks. We regularly tell each other if there's something any of us are interested in buying, and we don't bid on each other's items. Helps to keep the price down, although of course someone else outside our group might be bidding too.
It happened on Friday. A regular customer told me he was thinking of buying an item, and could I tell him what I thought, and how much it would cost for me to service it. If he hadn't spoken to me I'd have been bidding on it myself. Guide price £500 to £800. I'd have happily bid £900 for it, but my customer got it for £700. Bargain.
At least I'll make a few hundred fixing it for him.
Pre Covid when the halls were open there were hundreds of people there usually with two sales running at once, a fleet one and a dealer P/Ex one and it would be impossible to rig the market due to the amount of dealers bidding plus those bidding on the internet. I did notice at times when the auctioneer couldn't wait to get the hammer down quickly and suspected the winning bidder might have been seeing the auctioneer in the pub later for "a drink!!".
911hope said:
What do the fees amount to for a trade vs. individual buyer. % or absolute amount?
I assume this is how the auctioneers make their money.
Well oddly enough BCA do not publish their exact trade fees, but there are several levels depending on how many cars a year you buy, it was 4-9, 10-99, 100-499 and 500 plus, I once asked for a breakdown of fees via email and all I got back was an example, it's all very moody.I assume this is how the auctioneers make their money.
The retail fees were published and were on a poster close to the rostrum and were, I would estimate, double the 10-99 card level.
It is how they make their money and depending how keen they are to get the business they also charge the seller, plus of course BCA make money hand over fist on their We Buy Any Car sales.
chickenbarns said:
2015 Alfa romeo 4c tbi has seen its asking price jump to £43000 and over from £38000 in 2018 with no drop on listings but posters here are telling us there will be a big drop 
-CB
They have made literally millions of that car so it is indeed a fantastic barometer of the used car market in general. -CB
I'm not sure why anyone would want to buy from BCA unless they can physically view the car beforehand. Their grading seems to be done by Stevie Wonder, and it's not
unusual that the cars are delivered with unlisted major faults.
As a group we don't buy from any of the auctions, there's a lot of s
t that gets punted through. I'm not sure that Joe Public realise just how bad they are to deal with.
unusual that the cars are delivered with unlisted major faults.
As a group we don't buy from any of the auctions, there's a lot of s
t that gets punted through. I'm not sure that Joe Public realise just how bad they are to deal with. 911hope said:
There are many other over the top asking prices out there. Don't let anyone tell you this is the "market".. it is some trying to take advantage of unwise buyers.
Some of the silliest asking prices I've seen are through private sellers, not traders. People have heard or been told that cars are selling for strong prices and think that someone is going to pay them retail prices for tatty unprepared cars with short MOTs, no warranty and no comeback.[quote=buyer&seller]
It is how they make their money and depending how keen they are to get the business they also charge the seller, plus of course BCA make money hand over fist on their We Buy Any Car sales.
[/quote]
I’ve sold two cars to wbac, and watched them both go through auction. Both times the hammer price was less than £200 more than I’d sold to wbac, so I assume it’s just to get the buyer fees.
It is how they make their money and depending how keen they are to get the business they also charge the seller, plus of course BCA make money hand over fist on their We Buy Any Car sales.
[/quote]
I’ve sold two cars to wbac, and watched them both go through auction. Both times the hammer price was less than £200 more than I’d sold to wbac, so I assume it’s just to get the buyer fees.
nickfrog said:
chickenbarns said:
2015 Alfa romeo 4c tbi has seen its asking price jump to £43000 and over from £38000 in 2018 with no drop on listings but posters here are telling us there will be a big drop
-CB
They have made literally millions of that car so it is indeed a fantastic barometer of the used car market in general. -CB
All future predictions for the UK market should be based purely on the asking prices of Alfa Romeo 4C's, its foolproof.
Insert unnecessary signature here.
[quote=buyer&seller]
Well oddly enough BCA do not publish their exact trade fees, but there are several levels depending on how many cars a year you buy, it was 4-9, 10-99, 100-499 and 500 plus, I once asked for a breakdown of fees via email and all I got back was an example, it's all very moody.
The retail fees were published and were on a poster close to the rostrum and were, I would estimate, double the 10-99 card level.
It is how they make their money and depending how keen they are to get the business they also charge the seller, plus of course BCA make money hand over fist on their We Buy Any Car sales.
[/quote]
Are you saying buyers are not allowed to know what the fees they will pay are?
An odd form of contract if true and unenforceable. Obviously.
Well oddly enough BCA do not publish their exact trade fees, but there are several levels depending on how many cars a year you buy, it was 4-9, 10-99, 100-499 and 500 plus, I once asked for a breakdown of fees via email and all I got back was an example, it's all very moody.
The retail fees were published and were on a poster close to the rostrum and were, I would estimate, double the 10-99 card level.
It is how they make their money and depending how keen they are to get the business they also charge the seller, plus of course BCA make money hand over fist on their We Buy Any Car sales.
[/quote]
Are you saying buyers are not allowed to know what the fees they will pay are?
An odd form of contract if true and unenforceable. Obviously.
911hope said:
TTmonkey said:
Selling a bmw 420d conv.
WBAC valuation dropped over 20 % in a week.
Approaching winter?WBAC valuation dropped over 20 % in a week.
Oh the anticipation of opening the taps and listening to it clatter all the way up to the 4500rpm redline! Phoarrr
Take my money
I'm sorry but car prices are dropping for anything with a big engine.
I've been tracking the price of the following:
-C63 AMG (N/A V8)
-E92 M3 V8
-B7 RS4
-XKR
-XFR
The price on WBAC/Motorway/Cazoo is ridiculously lower than the advertised price (Usually only slightly lower). For example advert on Autotrader will be up for £16k, WBAC will only give £9k.
These cars are not moving but the prices are hardly dropping, maybe £1k max after 2-3 months. For that reason I am waiting, something has got to give for cars with a large displacement.
I know people have seen prices go up but that's for stuff like a 2015+ Euro 6 compliant petrol/diesel or an EV/Hybrid.
I've been tracking the price of the following:
-C63 AMG (N/A V8)
-E92 M3 V8
-B7 RS4
-XKR
-XFR
The price on WBAC/Motorway/Cazoo is ridiculously lower than the advertised price (Usually only slightly lower). For example advert on Autotrader will be up for £16k, WBAC will only give £9k.
These cars are not moving but the prices are hardly dropping, maybe £1k max after 2-3 months. For that reason I am waiting, something has got to give for cars with a large displacement.
I know people have seen prices go up but that's for stuff like a 2015+ Euro 6 compliant petrol/diesel or an EV/Hybrid.
Fast Bug said:
I'm not sure why anyone would want to buy from BCA unless they can physically view the car beforehand. Their grading seems to be done by Stevie Wonder, and it's not
unusual that the cars are delivered with unlisted major faults.
As a group we don't buy from any of the auctions, there's a lot of st that gets punted through. I'm not sure that Joe Public realise just how bad they are to deal with.
Quite. An auction is a great insulator for a seller when moving on something that isn't retail standard.unusual that the cars are delivered with unlisted major faults.
As a group we don't buy from any of the auctions, there's a lot of s
t that gets punted through. I'm not sure that Joe Public realise just how bad they are to deal with. Having dealt with auctions for some time ( a decent one) I'd only ever sell, not buy since it's effectively a private sale without a test drive.
Edited by Venisonpie on Monday 19th September 06:14
flibbage0 said:
I'm sorry but car prices are dropping for anything with a big engine.
I've been tracking the price of the following:
-C63 AMG (N/A V8)
-E92 M3 V8
-B7 RS4
-XKR
-XFR
The price on WBAC/Motorway/Cazoo is ridiculously lower than the advertised price (Usually only slightly lower). For example advert on Autotrader will be up for £16k, WBAC will only give £9k.
These cars are not moving but the prices are hardly dropping, maybe £1k max after 2-3 months. For that reason I am waiting, something has got to give for cars with a large displacement.
I know people have seen prices go up but that's for stuff like a 2015+ Euro 6 compliant petrol/diesel or an EV/Hybrid.
Have you got actual prices matched to dates, or is this just a general impression?I've been tracking the price of the following:
-C63 AMG (N/A V8)
-E92 M3 V8
-B7 RS4
-XKR
-XFR
The price on WBAC/Motorway/Cazoo is ridiculously lower than the advertised price (Usually only slightly lower). For example advert on Autotrader will be up for £16k, WBAC will only give £9k.
These cars are not moving but the prices are hardly dropping, maybe £1k max after 2-3 months. For that reason I am waiting, something has got to give for cars with a large displacement.
I know people have seen prices go up but that's for stuff like a 2015+ Euro 6 compliant petrol/diesel or an EV/Hybrid.
911hope said:
Are you saying buyers are not allowed to know what the fees they will pay are?
An odd form of contract if true and unenforceable. Obviously.
They tell you the fee structure when you open an account, assigning a membership level based on anticipated number of vehicle purchases. It’s just that they don’t publish a full set of rates for the various spend levels.An odd form of contract if true and unenforceable. Obviously.
lord trumpton said:
I can't see why anyone would let inclement weather spoil the occasion of dropping the top to soak up the aural delights of that diesel 4 pot.
Oh the anticipation of opening the taps and listening to it clatter all the way up to the 4500rpm redline! Phoarrr
Take my money
Oh the anticipation of opening the taps and listening to it clatter all the way up to the 4500rpm redline! Phoarrr
Take my money
going off topic, I’ve never understood the appeal of a diesel convertible.Back on topic, that white M2 I mentioned appears to have gone since I drove past the dealer last. £36k for a none comp car. Ouch.
Vroomer said:
flibbage0 said:
I'm sorry but car prices are dropping for anything with a big engine.
I've been tracking the price of the following:
-C63 AMG (N/A V8)
-E92 M3 V8
-B7 RS4
-XKR
-XFR
The price on WBAC/Motorway/Cazoo is ridiculously lower than the advertised price (Usually only slightly lower). For example advert on Autotrader will be up for £16k, WBAC will only give £9k.
These cars are not moving but the prices are hardly dropping, maybe £1k max after 2-3 months. For that reason I am waiting, something has got to give for cars with a large displacement.
I know people have seen prices go up but that's for stuff like a 2015+ Euro 6 compliant petrol/diesel or an EV/Hybrid.
Have you got actual prices matched to dates, or is this just a general impression?I've been tracking the price of the following:
-C63 AMG (N/A V8)
-E92 M3 V8
-B7 RS4
-XKR
-XFR
The price on WBAC/Motorway/Cazoo is ridiculously lower than the advertised price (Usually only slightly lower). For example advert on Autotrader will be up for £16k, WBAC will only give £9k.
These cars are not moving but the prices are hardly dropping, maybe £1k max after 2-3 months. For that reason I am waiting, something has got to give for cars with a large displacement.
I know people have seen prices go up but that's for stuff like a 2015+ Euro 6 compliant petrol/diesel or an EV/Hybrid.
Court_S said:
going off topic, I’ve never understood the appeal of a diesel convertible.Back on topic, that white M2 I mentioned appears to have gone since I drove past the dealer last. £36k for a none comp car. Ouch.
lord trumpton said:
I can't see why anyone would let inclement weather spoil the occasion of dropping the top to soak up the aural delights of that diesel 4 pot.
Oh the anticipation of opening the taps and listening to it clatter all the way up to the 4500rpm redline! Phoarrr
Take my money
You can’t hear the engine when it’s going yo be fair. Oh the anticipation of opening the taps and listening to it clatter all the way up to the 4500rpm redline! Phoarrr
Take my money
Anyway, it’s been replaced now. With something a bit more emotional.
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