RE: Rocketeer Mazda MX-5 V6 | PH Review
Discussion
simonrockman said:
In the original Jaguar installation, the engine was available with a supercharger which took it to 340bhp. (chippable to just shy of 400) I'm guessing that would be a heap of problems.
Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
340 bhp/tonne (400 Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
) in a 25yr old roadster with zero driving aids, traction control, skinny 15inch tyres ...... What could possibly go wrong.....
Edited by PushedDover on Wednesday 27th January 14:30
simonrockman said:
In the original Jaguar installation, the engine was available with a supercharger which took it to 340bhp. (chippable to just shy of 400) I'm guessing that would be a heap of problems.
Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
If you’re thinking of the 3.0 V6 that is in the F Type / XE S etc, it’s a completely different engine?Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
V88Dicky said:
simonrockman said:
In the original Jaguar installation, the engine was available with a supercharger which took it to 340bhp. (chippable to just shy of 400) I'm guessing that would be a heap of problems.
Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
If you’re thinking of the 3.0 V6 that is in the F Type / XE S etc, it’s a completely different engine?Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
The AJ30 that rocketeer use was also put in the X350 generation of XJ, not supercharged.
The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
The noble M400 does use the ford version of this engine with twin turbo's for >400bhp and 400lbt of torque I think.
That would destroy a standard MH5 gearbox and most likely be far too much for the car, plus it's got the characteristics of a turbo engine which imho isnt what this is about.
An interesting alternative is the LFX GM motor, 3.6l V6 and puts out over 300bhp.
If you live in the UK it's a lot more costly and less well supported than the Jag V6.
Personally I'd like to see someone develop the AJ30 to see how far it could go. Strengthen the internals and do some headwork to get it revving a bit more perhaps and yield some power beyond 7k rpm.
ECU issues shouldn't be a consideration really as it's running an aftermarket ECU. As long as the aftermarket ECU runs the engine then in something like an old MX5 the car isn't going to need any feedback from the engine. The can of worms starts when you have a complicated computer running the cars systems that's taking inputs from the engine (ie if you tried to put the mazda engine back in a modern jag)
The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
The noble M400 does use the ford version of this engine with twin turbo's for >400bhp and 400lbt of torque I think.
That would destroy a standard MH5 gearbox and most likely be far too much for the car, plus it's got the characteristics of a turbo engine which imho isnt what this is about.
An interesting alternative is the LFX GM motor, 3.6l V6 and puts out over 300bhp.
If you live in the UK it's a lot more costly and less well supported than the Jag V6.
Personally I'd like to see someone develop the AJ30 to see how far it could go. Strengthen the internals and do some headwork to get it revving a bit more perhaps and yield some power beyond 7k rpm.
ECU issues shouldn't be a consideration really as it's running an aftermarket ECU. As long as the aftermarket ECU runs the engine then in something like an old MX5 the car isn't going to need any feedback from the engine. The can of worms starts when you have a complicated computer running the cars systems that's taking inputs from the engine (ie if you tried to put the mazda engine back in a modern jag)
Edited by borat52 on Thursday 28th January 14:48
borat52 said:
The AJ30 that rocketeer use was also put in the X350 generation of XJ, not supercharged.
The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
The noble M400 does use the ford version of this engine with twin turbo's for >400bhp and 400lbt of torque I think.
That would destroy a standard MH5 gearbox and most likely be far too much for the car, plus it's got the characteristics of a turbo engine which imho isnt what this is about.
An interesting alternative is the LFX GM motor, 3.6l V6 and puts out over 300bhp.
If you live in the UK it's a lot more costly and less well supported than the Jag V6.
Personally I'd like to see someone develop the AJ30 to see how far it could go. Strengthen the internals and do some headwork to get it revving a bit more perhaps and yield some power beyond 7k rpm.
I'm sure that the AJ30 has potential for more output, but as others have said you will surely want/need all the MX-5 chassis modifications to match. If you're going for 300-400 horse you could be starting getting to the point where your basically engineering a new car that happens to have an MX5 silhouette but where everything underneath is changed.The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
The noble M400 does use the ford version of this engine with twin turbo's for >400bhp and 400lbt of torque I think.
That would destroy a standard MH5 gearbox and most likely be far too much for the car, plus it's got the characteristics of a turbo engine which imho isnt what this is about.
An interesting alternative is the LFX GM motor, 3.6l V6 and puts out over 300bhp.
If you live in the UK it's a lot more costly and less well supported than the Jag V6.
Personally I'd like to see someone develop the AJ30 to see how far it could go. Strengthen the internals and do some headwork to get it revving a bit more perhaps and yield some power beyond 7k rpm.
I'm something of a modifying addict so can really see the appeal of the project, but as ever there is a point where you may well be better off putting money into a better base car and starting with that. At least aftermarket tuning parts for the MX-5 are generally cheap and widely available though.
I don't think that's entirely true chap - there's a few mx5s running that sort of power and coping very well with it with a few routine upgrades such as polybushes and good dampers with some chassis stiffening.
The MX5 really is a very capable platform, with some components being specced well beyond the base car's needs.
The MX5 really is a very capable platform, with some components being specced well beyond the base car's needs.
MX-6 said:
I'm sure that the AJ30 has potential for more output, but as others have said you will surely want/need all the MX-5 chassis modifications to match. If you're going for 300-400 horse you could be starting getting to the point where your basically engineering a new car that happens to have an MX5 silhouette but where everything underneath is changed.
I'm something of a modifying addict so can really see the appeal of the project, but as ever there is a point where you may well be better off putting money into a better base car and starting with that. At least aftermarket tuning parts for the MX-5 are generally cheap and widely available though.
It depends on your goals, as a track toy an MX5 is light and very cheap to keep up together. Sure a Noble or Caterham might be more track focussed but ding one of those and your wallet will feel it. Even if you write of an MX5 chassis it's cheap to replace.I'm something of a modifying addict so can really see the appeal of the project, but as ever there is a point where you may well be better off putting money into a better base car and starting with that. At least aftermarket tuning parts for the MX-5 are generally cheap and widely available though.
To me the appeal would be a road car and would be the NA nature of the engine, and if you could get it revving to 8/8.5 and producing power up there it would be a real gem of a package.
V88Dicky said:
simonrockman said:
In the original Jaguar installation, the engine was available with a supercharger which took it to 340bhp. (chippable to just shy of 400) I'm guessing that would be a heap of problems.
Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
If you’re thinking of the 3.0 V6 that is in the F Type / XE S etc, it’s a completely different engine?Would it fit? What happens with cooling, transmission, gearbox and brakes?
borat52 said:
The AJ30 that rocketeer use was also put in the X350 generation of XJ, not supercharged.
The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
Sorry I didn't realise that. The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
I do wonder if the little Mazda could get that much power and torque down with being so light at the back. Then again such considerations never really stopped TVR until they got to the V12...
The V6 sounds like an excellent option though.
CDP said:
borat52 said:
The AJ30 that rocketeer use was also put in the X350 generation of XJ, not supercharged.
The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
Sorry I didn't realise that. The X351 supercharged engine is essentially a V6 version of the Jaguar V8.
Different things completely.
I do wonder if the little Mazda could get that much power and torque down with being so light at the back. Then again such considerations never really stopped TVR until they got to the V12...
The V6 sounds like an excellent option though.
I’ve had a lot of jap 4WD turbo cars and once the power gets high you rely on the computers to sort out the surge in power when the turbos kick in. Not owned a mclaren but have been lucky enough to track a 570 and it’s very good even though it’s a bit laggy, again I think you rely on the computers sorting out the power surge.
Have a Sagaris and it’s much easier to moderate the power as it doesn’t just surge when the boost comes in, even though it’s got no driver aids and isn’t anywhere near as competent as say a R35 GTR.
The thing with a N/A car is the power delivery is so linear that if you want to reduce power you just shirt shift and you can effectively reduce the power to suit the conditions, with a turbo car it can be all over the place once you have boost so it’s really hard for the human brain to adapt to.
I think 4WD turbos are incredible things if you want to get down a wet brutish road they are unrivalled, but equally a light N/A sports car can be something very exciting to drive in the right conditions.
borat52 said:
I wouldn’t consider myself a professional by any stretch, but in my experience a N/A car is much more predictable in a light car with no driver assistance.
I’ve had a lot of jap 4WD turbo cars and once the power gets high you rely on the computers to sort out the surge in power when the turbos kick in. Not owned a mclaren but have been lucky enough to track a 570 and it’s very good even though it’s a bit laggy, again I think you rely on the computers sorting out the power surge.
Have a Sagaris and it’s much easier to moderate the power as it doesn’t just surge when the boost comes in, even though it’s got no driver aids and isn’t anywhere near as competent as say a R35 GTR.
The thing with a N/A car is the power delivery is so linear that if you want to reduce power you just shirt shift and you can effectively reduce the power to suit the conditions, with a turbo car it can be all over the place once you have boost so it’s really hard for the human brain to adapt to.
I think 4WD turbos are incredible things if you want to get down a wet brutish road they are unrivalled, but equally a light N/A sports car can be something very exciting to drive in the right conditions.
Superchargers don't lag like turbos.I’ve had a lot of jap 4WD turbo cars and once the power gets high you rely on the computers to sort out the surge in power when the turbos kick in. Not owned a mclaren but have been lucky enough to track a 570 and it’s very good even though it’s a bit laggy, again I think you rely on the computers sorting out the power surge.
Have a Sagaris and it’s much easier to moderate the power as it doesn’t just surge when the boost comes in, even though it’s got no driver aids and isn’t anywhere near as competent as say a R35 GTR.
The thing with a N/A car is the power delivery is so linear that if you want to reduce power you just shirt shift and you can effectively reduce the power to suit the conditions, with a turbo car it can be all over the place once you have boost so it’s really hard for the human brain to adapt to.
I think 4WD turbos are incredible things if you want to get down a wet brutish road they are unrivalled, but equally a light N/A sports car can be something very exciting to drive in the right conditions.
borat52 said:
I wouldn’t consider myself a professional by any stretch, but in my experience a N/A car is much more predictable in a light car with no driver assistance.
I’ve had a lot of jap 4WD turbo cars and once the power gets high you rely on the computers to sort out the surge in power when the turbos kick in. Not owned a mclaren but have been lucky enough to track a 570 and it’s very good even though it’s a bit laggy, again I think you rely on the computers sorting out the power surge.
Have a Sagaris and it’s much easier to moderate the power as it doesn’t just surge when the boost comes in, even though it’s got no driver aids and isn’t anywhere near as competent as say a R35 GTR.
The thing with a N/A car is the power delivery is so linear that if you want to reduce power you just shirt shift and you can effectively reduce the power to suit the conditions, with a turbo car it can be all over the place once you have boost so it’s really hard for the human brain to adapt to.
I think 4WD turbos are incredible things if you want to get down a wet brutish road they are unrivalled, but equally a light N/A sports car can be something very exciting to drive in the right conditions.
Ignoring the frilly crap around this clip, the driving is always what I think of when I think of NA lightweight vs big power Turbo:I’ve had a lot of jap 4WD turbo cars and once the power gets high you rely on the computers to sort out the surge in power when the turbos kick in. Not owned a mclaren but have been lucky enough to track a 570 and it’s very good even though it’s a bit laggy, again I think you rely on the computers sorting out the power surge.
Have a Sagaris and it’s much easier to moderate the power as it doesn’t just surge when the boost comes in, even though it’s got no driver aids and isn’t anywhere near as competent as say a R35 GTR.
The thing with a N/A car is the power delivery is so linear that if you want to reduce power you just shirt shift and you can effectively reduce the power to suit the conditions, with a turbo car it can be all over the place once you have boost so it’s really hard for the human brain to adapt to.
I think 4WD turbos are incredible things if you want to get down a wet brutish road they are unrivalled, but equally a light N/A sports car can be something very exciting to drive in the right conditions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mhi4JRkwmOw
Bump - to answer the original Question :
"Ever wondered what an MX-5 would be like with twice the power and no additional weight?"
Answer:
"Wonderful"
I was very fortunate to be passing through Hungerford on Saturday and after prior arrangement with Bruce, called in to see if this is the road I want to take my 25yr old Mk1 down.
A good chat in the workshops, understanding how the team operate, what they can take on - and seeing a recent conversion of a Mk2 that was bought and delivered to them with ONLY 800 miles on the clock, Bruce cut to the chase and said "shall we go drive one".
Easiest sales pitch in the world. IMHO.
He gave me the keys to the silver Car in the article - with 40,000miles of V6' thrashing under its belt.
My MX5 is undergoing a long term effort by a fellow PH'er at AutoBarn (unpeeling years of horror) so I've not driven mine or any for a while, but i noticed a high bite point and a little extra 'zorst noise as we trundled out of town.
Light controls, and all the tactility of the MX5's that we (some?) know and love as a driving car.
Then, clear of the roadworks at the top of town and on to the Burbage road I know, and open her up.
Progressive, not step changing or binary, the power ooozes in and just gets going up to the top end of NSL and a bit more so comfortably, swiftly and with punch. Joyouus.
It is a wonderful car for banging along the B-roads. I'm not sure there is much out there that I would have confidence to thread, not be fearful of hitting imperfect road surface with, and place on the road.
Yes, faster cars exist. Always will, but for the simple pleasure of driving - which I think we are all devoid of on the whole with anodyne and 'point squirt' acceleration and power in hefty brutes - for the simple joy of driving, the conversion makes a wonderful car.
Would I do it to mine. Yes.
Yes I want to. I am having a little sticker shock on the cost to do it that is all. We can justify to say a boxster etc will depreciate the same cost or amount in a year or three, but we all now that is hidden 'spend'.
To lay out £15k on my 110k miler is making my man maths smart. Anyone with an upgraded BudgetCreep'Calculator available I could use?
"Ever wondered what an MX-5 would be like with twice the power and no additional weight?"
Answer:
"Wonderful"
I was very fortunate to be passing through Hungerford on Saturday and after prior arrangement with Bruce, called in to see if this is the road I want to take my 25yr old Mk1 down.
A good chat in the workshops, understanding how the team operate, what they can take on - and seeing a recent conversion of a Mk2 that was bought and delivered to them with ONLY 800 miles on the clock, Bruce cut to the chase and said "shall we go drive one".
Easiest sales pitch in the world. IMHO.
He gave me the keys to the silver Car in the article - with 40,000miles of V6' thrashing under its belt.
My MX5 is undergoing a long term effort by a fellow PH'er at AutoBarn (unpeeling years of horror) so I've not driven mine or any for a while, but i noticed a high bite point and a little extra 'zorst noise as we trundled out of town.
Light controls, and all the tactility of the MX5's that we (some?) know and love as a driving car.
Then, clear of the roadworks at the top of town and on to the Burbage road I know, and open her up.
Progressive, not step changing or binary, the power ooozes in and just gets going up to the top end of NSL and a bit more so comfortably, swiftly and with punch. Joyouus.
It is a wonderful car for banging along the B-roads. I'm not sure there is much out there that I would have confidence to thread, not be fearful of hitting imperfect road surface with, and place on the road.
Yes, faster cars exist. Always will, but for the simple pleasure of driving - which I think we are all devoid of on the whole with anodyne and 'point squirt' acceleration and power in hefty brutes - for the simple joy of driving, the conversion makes a wonderful car.
Would I do it to mine. Yes.
Yes I want to. I am having a little sticker shock on the cost to do it that is all. We can justify to say a boxster etc will depreciate the same cost or amount in a year or three, but we all now that is hidden 'spend'.
To lay out £15k on my 110k miler is making my man maths smart. Anyone with an upgraded BudgetCreep'Calculator available I could use?
PushedDover said:
Bump - to answer the original Question :
"Ever wondered what an MX-5 would be like with twice the power and no additional weight?"
Answer:
"Wonderful"
I was very fortunate to be passing through Hungerford on Saturday and after prior arrangement with Bruce, called in to see if this is the road I want to take my 25yr old Mk1 down.
A good chat in the workshops, understanding how the team operate, what they can take on - and seeing a recent conversion of a Mk2 that was bought and delivered to them with ONLY 800 miles on the clock, Bruce cut to the chase and said "shall we go drive one".
Easiest sales pitch in the world. IMHO.
He gave me the keys to the silver Car in the article - with 40,000miles of V6' thrashing under its belt.
My MX5 is undergoing a long term effort by a fellow PH'er at AutoBarn (unpeeling years of horror) so I've not driven mine or any for a while, but i noticed a high bite point and a little extra 'zorst noise as we trundled out of town.
Light controls, and all the tactility of the MX5's that we (some?) know and love as a driving car.
Then, clear of the roadworks at the top of town and on to the Burbage road I know, and open her up.
Progressive, not step changing or binary, the power ooozes in and just gets going up to the top end of NSL and a bit more so comfortably, swiftly and with punch. Joyouus.
It is a wonderful car for banging along the B-roads. I'm not sure there is much out there that I would have confidence to thread, not be fearful of hitting imperfect road surface with, and place on the road.
Yes, faster cars exist. Always will, but for the simple pleasure of driving - which I think we are all devoid of on the whole with anodyne and 'point squirt' acceleration and power in hefty brutes - for the simple joy of driving, the conversion makes a wonderful car.
Would I do it to mine. Yes.
Yes I want to. I am having a little sticker shock on the cost to do it that is all. We can justify to say a boxster etc will depreciate the same cost or amount in a year or three, but we all now that is hidden 'spend'.
To lay out £15k on my 110k miler is making my man maths smart. Anyone with an upgraded BudgetCreep'Calculator available I could use?
It's probably cheaper than restoring a classic, if that helps "Ever wondered what an MX-5 would be like with twice the power and no additional weight?"
Answer:
"Wonderful"
I was very fortunate to be passing through Hungerford on Saturday and after prior arrangement with Bruce, called in to see if this is the road I want to take my 25yr old Mk1 down.
A good chat in the workshops, understanding how the team operate, what they can take on - and seeing a recent conversion of a Mk2 that was bought and delivered to them with ONLY 800 miles on the clock, Bruce cut to the chase and said "shall we go drive one".
Easiest sales pitch in the world. IMHO.
He gave me the keys to the silver Car in the article - with 40,000miles of V6' thrashing under its belt.
My MX5 is undergoing a long term effort by a fellow PH'er at AutoBarn (unpeeling years of horror) so I've not driven mine or any for a while, but i noticed a high bite point and a little extra 'zorst noise as we trundled out of town.
Light controls, and all the tactility of the MX5's that we (some?) know and love as a driving car.
Then, clear of the roadworks at the top of town and on to the Burbage road I know, and open her up.
Progressive, not step changing or binary, the power ooozes in and just gets going up to the top end of NSL and a bit more so comfortably, swiftly and with punch. Joyouus.
It is a wonderful car for banging along the B-roads. I'm not sure there is much out there that I would have confidence to thread, not be fearful of hitting imperfect road surface with, and place on the road.
Yes, faster cars exist. Always will, but for the simple pleasure of driving - which I think we are all devoid of on the whole with anodyne and 'point squirt' acceleration and power in hefty brutes - for the simple joy of driving, the conversion makes a wonderful car.
Would I do it to mine. Yes.
Yes I want to. I am having a little sticker shock on the cost to do it that is all. We can justify to say a boxster etc will depreciate the same cost or amount in a year or three, but we all now that is hidden 'spend'.
To lay out £15k on my 110k miler is making my man maths smart. Anyone with an upgraded BudgetCreep'Calculator available I could use?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff