RE: Litchfield GR Yaris announced

[martin12345]

I may be incorrect in what I'm about to write, but there is a good chance that I am not. I suspect that the seat is in a high position in order to maintain the seat to steering wheel to pedals relationship of the standard Yaris in which the crash structures and airbags will have been developed at very high cost. Airbags/seat position/crash structure is a delicate balance to try to make the car as safe as possible for all drivers from 4'6" to 6'6" men & women. For every driver size/shape there is an ideal design but cars have to consider the full range of drivers as much as possible. The high seat position is generally good for low leg protection and why it is popular. I know some cars fit knee airbags to help with a lower driving position. To develop a completely new crash structure and airbag package is a really really expensive job (huge amount of CPU time and then 10's of real prototypes slammed into a variety of barriers and/or other cars and likely prohibitably expensive for a low volume model - hence (I believe) why this Yaris and indeed the Focus RS have unpopularly high seat positions

[Julian Thompson]

Some excellent views and opinions here gents - in the end it’ll take individual owners to drive the car and establish if they are satisfied with what Toyota have produced. Reading here it seems that many of you are and that’s fantastic news.

I did consider a Yaris but backed off after I thought about the opportunity cost, but, I think that if I changed my mind I would definitely want to own one that was modified to represent some kind of rally homage. In which case bigger brakes, coil overs, big turbo, roll cage and other nonsense would probably end up featuring.

Maybe it’s just impossible to take the teenager out of a petrolhead, I don’t know, but one thing I will say is that this little car seems to have caused a debate and excitement far beyond any other recently and so, that in itself is an achievement.

[Maldini35]

martin12345 said:

I may be incorrect in what I'm about to write, but there is a good chance that I am not. I suspect that the seat is in a high position in order to maintain the seat to steering wheel to pedals relationship of the standard Yaris in which the crash structures and airbags will have been developed at very high cost. Airbags/seat position/crash structure is a delicate balance to try to make the car as safe as possible for all drivers from 4'6" to 6'6" men & women. For every driver size/shape there is an ideal design but cars have to consider the full range of drivers as much as possible. The high seat position is generally good for low leg protection and why it is popular. I know some cars fit knee airbags to help with a lower driving position. To develop a completely new crash structure and airbag package is a really really expensive job (huge amount of CPU time and then 10's of real prototypes slammed into a variety of barriers and/or other cars and likely prohibitably expensive for a low volume model - hence (I believe) why this Yaris and indeed the Focus RS have unpopularly high seat positions

Yes, this is why.
A change to the seat mounts and position would require new regulatory approval and (depending on sales volumes) possible crash testing.
A time consuming and expensive ballache for manufacturers.

[Jon_S_Rally]

MiseryStreak said:

Oh dear, this nonsense again? Actually that’s presumptive, you may well be 6’ 8” + .

Seriously though, the amount of bullst I read about it having zero headroom, I had almost no hope of fitting and nearly didn’t bother booking a test drive. It was fine.

It made me wonder if it’s only hipsters insisting on wearing their top hats that had test drove it.

But the seat height isn’t adjustable enough, you’re right there.

It's not really nonsense is it People come in all different shapes and sizes. I'm 6'3 so tall, but not excessively so, and my head was against the roof constantly. It just wasn't comfortable. I like the seat to be quite upright, but even with it reclined more than I would like, I still couldn't get on with it. A friend of mine has sat in one and he complained of the same problem. He is about the same height as me, but has longer legs, as he usually sits further back than I do. Both of us decided that we couldn't have one because of it.

It's a shame, as there is a lot to like about the car, but it's probably one of the worst cars I have come across recently in respect of the position of the seat. I wouldn't tell people not to buy one, but just to make sure they at least sit in one first, as it could be a problem for many prospective buyers.

I don't own a top hat by the way.

[forest172]

6 foot here and I found it fine, and I have quite a long body and 32" leg. Lots of adjustment on the steering wheel too

now Focus RS mk 2, that was a horrid seating position

[MiseryStreak]

Jon_S_Rally said:

MiseryStreak said:

Oh dear, this nonsense again? Actually that’s presumptive, you may well be 6’ 8” + .

Seriously though, the amount of bullst I read about it having zero headroom, I had almost no hope of fitting and nearly didn’t bother booking a test drive. It was fine.

It made me wonder if it’s only hipsters insisting on wearing their top hats that had test drove it.

But the seat height isn’t adjustable enough, you’re right there.

It's not really nonsense is it People come in all different shapes and sizes. I'm 6'3 so tall, but not excessively so, and my head was against the roof constantly. It just wasn't comfortable. I like the seat to be quite upright, but even with it reclined more than I would like, I still couldn't get on with it. A friend of mine has sat in one and he complained of the same problem. He is about the same height as me, but has longer legs, as he usually sits further back than I do. Both of us decided that we couldn't have one because of it.

It's a shame, as there is a lot to like about the car, but it's probably one of the worst cars I have come across recently in respect of the position of the seat. I wouldn't tell people not to buy one, but just to make sure they at least sit in one first, as it could be a problem for many prospective buyers.

I don't own a top hat by the way.

I didn’t mean to be rude, if you didn’t fit, you didn’t fit! Did you definitely have the seat in its lowest position?

I think there may be something wrong with me, I’m 6’ 7” so have a long body and long legs. I managed to drive a Lotus Elan around for 4 years, and that’s about the smallest sports car there is. Maybe I shrink when I sit down?!

If you’re tall, or even if you’re not, the only way is to try it out I guess. It’s a shame you didn’t fit, I would have been gutted if my head was touching the roof, no way I could get on with that!

[EK9_CTR]

So are there any GR Yaris owners here that see themselves splashing out on the Nitron suspension when it becomes available?

[bcr5784]

MiseryStreak said:

I didn’t mean to be rude, if you didn’t fit, you didn’t fit! Did you definitely have the seat in its lowest position?

I think there may be something wrong with me, I’m 6’ 7” so have a long body and long legs. I managed to drive a Lotus Elan around for 4 years, and that’s about the smallest sports car there is. Maybe I shrink when I sit down?!

If you’re tall, or even if you’re not, the only way is to try it out I guess. It’s a shame you didn’t fit, I would have been gutted if my head was touching the roof, no way I could get on with that!

The Elan isn't a good reference point - it accommodates tall drivers exceptionally well - just not wide ones... It's pretty clear that the Yaris doesn't accommodate all tall drivers as well as it might. Obviously depends on how upright or reclined you are happy to sit and so on. You just need to be aware and see if it suits you.

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 15th January 19:22

[Honeywell]

EK9_CTR said:

So are there any GR Yaris owners here that see themselves splashing out on the Nitron suspension when it becomes available?

Last thing I want is lowered or stiffer suspension. The attraction of the GRY is a compliant long travel suspension in modest 18 inch wheels. I live on the Wales England border where the B roads are bendy and badly surfaced and narrow and cornered in mud. A 911 geared for 180mph on lawn roller tyres and roads hard suspensions isn't what I was looking for in a £34k fun car.

[MiseryStreak]

bcr5784 said:

MiseryStreak said:

I didn’t mean to be rude, if you didn’t fit, you didn’t fit! Did you definitely have the seat in its lowest position?

I think there may be something wrong with me, I’m 6’ 7” so have a long body and long legs. I managed to drive a Lotus Elan around for 4 years, and that’s about the smallest sports car there is. Maybe I shrink when I sit down?!

If you’re tall, or even if you’re not, the only way is to try it out I guess. It’s a shame you didn’t fit, I would have been gutted if my head was touching the roof, no way I could get on with that!

The Elan isn't a good reference point - it accommodates tall drivers exceptionally well - just not wide ones... It's pretty clear that the Yaris doesn't accommodate all tall drivers as well as it might. Obviously depends on how upright or reclined you are happy to sit and so on. You just need to be aware and see if it suits you.

Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 15th January 19:22

Except I had a DHC (drop head coupe) and if I had to put the roof up it was practically undrivable. But it was roomier than a MK1 MX-5 and any Elise, the benefit of a central backbone chassis.

I didn’t try out the passenger seat in the GRY, apparently that’s worse. But I’m not going to sit there and my wife’s only 5’ 11” so she’ll be ok.

I wonder if Webasto will do a roof conversion? That CRP panel will pop out easily enough.

[Babw]

Varelco said:

Usual aftermarket affair. Lower it, remap it add a sticker or 2, (surprised no new wheels?) all done as quickly as possible whilst the release hype is still there, support fades away then onto the next best thing.

Nail on head. Litchfield have great marketing campaigns are “develop” so many platforms. How can a suspension kit be fully developed for road use in 2/3 months? It’s really a case of capturing the market with hype and exploiting the platform until the next platform comes along.

[Evil.soup]

Maldini35 said:

Evil.soup said:

I am a fan of Litchfields work and having owned an Impreza for 15 years, I am not afraid of modifying. I have used Litchfield for a few jobs, but in the case of the Yaris, I am not sure if it is the way to go.

The problem with modifying any part of your car, is it leads to other compromises. Change the suspension to something that has been tested for a few months and you are replacing something a world rally team has spent years developing for the crappy type of roads that exist in this country. The car wasn't built on a tiny budget, it was built with a task in mind and has been set up by professionals. I do respect Litchfield, but they are not a WRC manufacturer.

As for power mods, yes, it would probably make for better numbers and sharper pick up, but in the real world, 260hp is the same as 300hp and will make very little difference on a B-road blast unless you are the stig. I am sure some drag racer will disagree and on a competitive track car it would be worth while, but I have been out on runs with other far more powerful heavily modified cars, and my modest (in Impreza terms) 282hp has been more than enough to keep up with almost all of them on B-roads.

What I am saying is, I doubt the car needs modifying, it will be done because people like to do it, not because it will have any real world point to point difference.

I agree.

I have been slowly modifying my old Volvo V70 T5 during lockdown - purely to ease the boredom.
An extra 30-40bhp, slightly lower suspension and better brakes will make zero difference to me on the road.
In fact it will almost certainly make the car worse.
But if it gives me something else to think about then it's time well spent in my book.
(My dog might disagree when I boot it for the first time)

Lol just have visions of a dog pressed against the back window!!

Yeah, I have no issue with modifying, for most of us its for the joy of making a car more your own and breaking the boredom of owning a car. I have spent money on brakes, suspension, power etc and yes, it is a bit quicker and feels a little sharper and does look better for it, but in terms of it making a quicker car for a normal road, not really made much difference.
I had plans for big power upgrades but having seen the real on the road difference, its really not worth the expense, its still cool though!!

[wab172uk]

EK9_CTR said:

So are there any GR Yaris owners here that see themselves splashing out on the Nitron suspension when it becomes available?

No. Standard set-up for me.

[Jon_S_Rally]

MiseryStreak said:

I didn’t mean to be rude, if you didn’t fit, you didn’t fit! Did you definitely have the seat in its lowest position?

I think there may be something wrong with me, I’m 6’ 7” so have a long body and long legs. I managed to drive a Lotus Elan around for 4 years, and that’s about the smallest sports car there is. Maybe I shrink when I sit down?!

If you’re tall, or even if you’re not, the only way is to try it out I guess. It’s a shame you didn’t fit, I would have been gutted if my head was touching the roof, no way I could get on with that!

No problem!

Yeah I did. I've sat in two so far. I got to see one of the pre-prod ones when they did the dealer tour, then had a 45 minute test drive on my own, so spent some time messing about with it. It's strange, as the salesman said that he had sold one to someone taller than me and he didn't comment on the seating position, so I guess it must depend a lot on your particular shape and how you like the seat. I do like to sit quite upright, so that probably makes it more difficult.

It was a disappoint as I liked the car otherwise. It's certainly unique in the market. With the seat lowered, and maybe a little work to the exhaust to improve the soundtrack (I didn't like the synthetic sound through the speakers much), I think it would be a great little car for me.

[jason61c]

wab172uk said:

EK9_CTR said:

So are there any GR Yaris owners here that see themselves splashing out on the Nitron suspension when it becomes available?

No. Standard set-up for me.

I think thats the best way. Nitron aren't really 'high end' anyway.

[MiseryStreak]

Jon_S_Rally said:

MiseryStreak said:

I didn’t mean to be rude, if you didn’t fit, you didn’t fit! Did you definitely have the seat in its lowest position?

I think there may be something wrong with me, I’m 6’ 7” so have a long body and long legs. I managed to drive a Lotus Elan around for 4 years, and that’s about the smallest sports car there is. Maybe I shrink when I sit down?!

If you’re tall, or even if you’re not, the only way is to try it out I guess. It’s a shame you didn’t fit, I would have been gutted if my head was touching the roof, no way I could get on with that!

No problem!

Yeah I did. I've sat in two so far. I got to see one of the pre-prod ones when they did the dealer tour, then had a 45 minute test drive on my own, so spent some time messing about with it. It's strange, as the salesman said that he had sold one to someone taller than me and he didn't comment on the seating position, so I guess it must depend a lot on your particular shape and how you like the seat. I do like to sit quite upright, so that probably makes it more difficult.

It was a disappoint as I liked the car otherwise. It's certainly unique in the market. With the seat lowered, and maybe a little work to the exhaust to improve the soundtrack (I didn't like the synthetic sound through the speakers much), I think it would be a great little car for me.

If you really want one, there are already lower seat rails being sold and plenty of aftermarket seat options that will go in. The seat mounting points are really high but with the replacement rails and the right seats you should be able to sit a couple of inches lower.

There’s going to around a 1,000 cars in the UK soon so there’s likely to be a few owners that will swap the seats out and report their findings.

I hated the idea of the piped engine sound but got used to it almost instantly, it does give the car a Jekyll and Hyde character, as it’s silent on a part throttle. With the way OEM exhausts are on cars now, without any digital assistance it would be very muted inside, as it is outside.

[Sporky]

Babw said:

Nail on head. Litchfield have great marketing campaigns are “develop” so many platforms. How can a suspension kit be fully developed for road use in 2/3 months? It’s really a case of capturing the market with hype and exploiting the platform until the next platform comes along.

They do seem to have given up 9n the A110. Which they were totes super-excite about when they had a remap for it.

[tyrrell]

Sporky said:

Babw said:

Nail on head. Litchfield have great marketing campaigns are “develop” so many platforms. How can a suspension kit be fully developed for road use in 2/3 months? It’s really a case of capturing the market with hype and exploiting the platform until the next platform comes along.

They do seem to have given up 9n the A110. Which they were totes super-excite about when they had a remap for it.

There just so last year darling !

[DB89]

Well Mr Metcalfe has given his opinion on the Litchfield suspension set up, after actually driving it too!

[MiseryStreak]

DB89 said:

Well Mr Metcalfe has given his opinion on the Litchfield suspension set up, after actually driving it too!

Link

Yep, he was gushing about it, and he hates a harshly riding car. So Litchfield have clearly not just slammed it putting appearance first. The biggest improvement has to be the improved turn in, as that has been criticised by journalists such as Henry Catchpole, Jethro Bovingdon and a number of owners and test pilots.

Personally, my initial impression was that the steering felt a bit numb but it came alive when I upped the pace a bit, and despite sleet and freezing roads on my test drive the turn in and traction felt superb, certainly no
understeer. I didn’t see the dash camera until I got back to the dealership so it wasn’t for lack of enthusiasm.