RE: Litchfield GR Yaris announced
Discussion
Davey S2 said:
This car is going to be the new Citroen Saxo isn't it? In 10 years time it will probably be next to impossible to find an original, unmolested example.
I hope so! Edited by Davey S2 on Wednesday 13th January 08:23
I have a modified 106 as a trackday/weekend/s
ts and giggles car And I did seriously consider a Yaris on 0% to replace it in that roleBut I don't think it will cut the mustard by comparison so I am going to wait to get one in a few years when they are out of warranty.... Specifically to modify.
I am a fan of Litchfields work and having owned an Impreza for 15 years, I am not afraid of modifying. I have used Litchfield for a few jobs, but in the case of the Yaris, I am not sure if it is the way to go.
The problem with modifying any part of your car, is it leads to other compromises. Change the suspension to something that has been tested for a few months and you are replacing something a world rally team has spent years developing for the crappy type of roads that exist in this country. The car wasn't built on a tiny budget, it was built with a task in mind and has been set up by professionals. I do respect Litchfield, but they are not a WRC manufacturer.
As for power mods, yes, it would probably make for better numbers and sharper pick up, but in the real world, 260hp is the same as 300hp and will make very little difference on a B-road blast unless you are the stig. I am sure some drag racer will disagree and on a competitive track car it would be worth while, but I have been out on runs with other far more powerful heavily modified cars, and my modest (in Impreza terms) 282hp has been more than enough to keep up with almost all of them on B-roads.
What I am saying is, I doubt the car needs modifying, it will be done because people like to do it, not because it will have any real world point to point difference.
The problem with modifying any part of your car, is it leads to other compromises. Change the suspension to something that has been tested for a few months and you are replacing something a world rally team has spent years developing for the crappy type of roads that exist in this country. The car wasn't built on a tiny budget, it was built with a task in mind and has been set up by professionals. I do respect Litchfield, but they are not a WRC manufacturer.
As for power mods, yes, it would probably make for better numbers and sharper pick up, but in the real world, 260hp is the same as 300hp and will make very little difference on a B-road blast unless you are the stig. I am sure some drag racer will disagree and on a competitive track car it would be worth while, but I have been out on runs with other far more powerful heavily modified cars, and my modest (in Impreza terms) 282hp has been more than enough to keep up with almost all of them on B-roads.
What I am saying is, I doubt the car needs modifying, it will be done because people like to do it, not because it will have any real world point to point difference.
jason61c said:
Julian Thompson said:
When they wind the Nitron spring seats up it’ll ride as high as you like. They’re probably just messing about testing it to get a feel for how it reacts and to get some press shots done.
thats not how it works, how much work has nitron really done since they got a car? who's done the development? It'll be a waste of cash. the whole car is setup to run at a particular height. Every review has praised the suspension.
Additionally, the dampers on the car from the factory will be very inexpensive to manufacture and very basic. The Nitron product will cost a huge amount more to make and be far more advanced, offering much superior tuning.
As a downside, the lower ride height may well have unknown consequences on driveshafts, bushings and all sorts of other things, and of course the nitrons need rebuilding every 15k miles or whatever.
But no, if you’re willing to accept the compromises above there is no reason that the car can’t be made to handle better using the Nitron kit.
Evil.soup said:
I am a fan of Litchfields work and having owned an Impreza for 15 years, I am not afraid of modifying. I have used Litchfield for a few jobs, but in the case of the Yaris, I am not sure if it is the way to go.
The problem with modifying any part of your car, is it leads to other compromises. Change the suspension to something that has been tested for a few months and you are replacing something a world rally team has spent years developing for the crappy type of roads that exist in this country. The car wasn't built on a tiny budget, it was built with a task in mind and has been set up by professionals. I do respect Litchfield, but they are not a WRC manufacturer.
As for power mods, yes, it would probably make for better numbers and sharper pick up, but in the real world, 260hp is the same as 300hp and will make very little difference on a B-road blast unless you are the stig. I am sure some drag racer will disagree and on a competitive track car it would be worth while, but I have been out on runs with other far more powerful heavily modified cars, and my modest (in Impreza terms) 282hp has been more than enough to keep up with almost all of them on B-roads.
What I am saying is, I doubt the car needs modifying, it will be done because people like to do it, not because it will have any real world point to point difference.
I agree.The problem with modifying any part of your car, is it leads to other compromises. Change the suspension to something that has been tested for a few months and you are replacing something a world rally team has spent years developing for the crappy type of roads that exist in this country. The car wasn't built on a tiny budget, it was built with a task in mind and has been set up by professionals. I do respect Litchfield, but they are not a WRC manufacturer.
As for power mods, yes, it would probably make for better numbers and sharper pick up, but in the real world, 260hp is the same as 300hp and will make very little difference on a B-road blast unless you are the stig. I am sure some drag racer will disagree and on a competitive track car it would be worth while, but I have been out on runs with other far more powerful heavily modified cars, and my modest (in Impreza terms) 282hp has been more than enough to keep up with almost all of them on B-roads.
What I am saying is, I doubt the car needs modifying, it will be done because people like to do it, not because it will have any real world point to point difference.
I have been slowly modifying my old Volvo V70 T5 during lockdown - purely to ease the boredom.
An extra 30-40bhp, slightly lower suspension and better brakes will make zero difference to me on the road.
In fact it will almost certainly make the car worse.
But if it gives me something else to think about then it's time well spent in my book.
(My dog might disagree when I boot it for the first time)
Julian Thompson said:
jason61c said:
Julian Thompson said:
When they wind the Nitron spring seats up it’ll ride as high as you like. They’re probably just messing about testing it to get a feel for how it reacts and to get some press shots done.
thats not how it works, how much work has nitron really done since they got a car? who's done the development? It'll be a waste of cash. the whole car is setup to run at a particular height. Every review has praised the suspension.
Additionally, the dampers on the car from the factory will be very inexpensive to manufacture and very basic. The Nitron product will cost a huge amount more to make and be far more advanced, offering much superior tuning.
As a downside, the lower ride height may well have unknown consequences on driveshafts, bushings and all sorts of other things, and of course the nitrons need rebuilding every 15k miles or whatever.
But no, if you’re willing to accept the compromises above there is no reason that the car can’t be made to handle better using the Nitron kit.
What does "offering much superior tuning" mean? Do they have lower friction seals than the standard toyota parts? Do they have bigger internal working areas? I'm very sceptical. From my experience tuning parts are sometimes inferior to the OEM parts.
Furyblade_Lee said:
dibblecorse said:
Unless that set up improves its ability to demolish B roads, then I don't see the point, if you buy this wanting to go fast on the super smooth stuff, then I think you've bought the wrong car.
This......^^^^^^https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sGPqb7IytAY
Depending on what your local roads are like, the last thing it needs is to be made more like a GP3 or JCW Challenge with Nitron dampers.
Maybe on track the GP3 might fare a little better, at least that was the hope. Maybe they will make a follow up video.
Toyota used to leave the warranty decision to the specific dealership, rather than having a blanket ban on modifying like Nissan. Some dealers were buying and offering modifications to the GT86 as customers weren't finding them very 'exciting'. I used to sell a large number of Milltek exhausts to certain dealers. A few years back the R35 GT-R warranty with Litchfield would cover everything mechanical in the car, but wouldn't cover stuff like lights, interior or wear and tear. Best to speak to them if you are interested.
Depending on the travel available on the Nitrons, what's stopping you asking for a different spring length/rate and going full WRC? They are a coilover unit and essentially easy to modify at source when they are created.
Depending on the travel available on the Nitrons, what's stopping you asking for a different spring length/rate and going full WRC? They are a coilover unit and essentially easy to modify at source when they are created.
It is great they are pretty much first to the market with this sort of stuff, but surely let the consumer buy and run the factory spec first and then feedback on what they want to improve on the car.
They are second guessing what the majority of owners want, before the majority drive their car. Also warranty is a big issue, especially as Toyota have a fairly decent one in place. Piggyback ECU's I assume is just a stop gap, surprised they would release this, as I have heard these are frowned upon in tuning community, just tricking the engine rather than being a proper map..
G
They are second guessing what the majority of owners want, before the majority drive their car. Also warranty is a big issue, especially as Toyota have a fairly decent one in place. Piggyback ECU's I assume is just a stop gap, surprised they would release this, as I have heard these are frowned upon in tuning community, just tricking the engine rather than being a proper map..
G
Edited by Gio G on Wednesday 13th January 14:14
Kawasicki said:
Julian Thompson said:
jason61c said:
Julian Thompson said:
When they wind the Nitron spring seats up it’ll ride as high as you like. They’re probably just messing about testing it to get a feel for how it reacts and to get some press shots done.
thats not how it works, how much work has nitron really done since they got a car? who's done the development? It'll be a waste of cash. the whole car is setup to run at a particular height. Every review has praised the suspension.
Additionally, the dampers on the car from the factory will be very inexpensive to manufacture and very basic. The Nitron product will cost a huge amount more to make and be far more advanced, offering much superior tuning.
As a downside, the lower ride height may well have unknown consequences on driveshafts, bushings and all sorts of other things, and of course the nitrons need rebuilding every 15k miles or whatever.
But no, if you’re willing to accept the compromises above there is no reason that the car can’t be made to handle better using the Nitron kit.
What does "offering much superior tuning" mean? Do they have lower friction seals than the standard toyota parts? Do they have bigger internal working areas? I'm very sceptical. From my experience tuning parts are sometimes inferior to the OEM parts.
It does tend to make me chuckle in general that the tuning community bin several years worth of work and proclaim to have vastly improved a car. Surely the fact it usually takes Ohlins a good year or more to develop a kit for a car tells you how long it should take to ‘improve’ the damping...
adambcvg said:
Toyota used to leave the warranty decision to the specific dealership, rather than having a blanket ban on modifying like Nissan. Some dealers were buying and offering modifications to the GT86 as customers weren't finding them very 'exciting'. I used to sell a large number of Milltek exhausts to certain dealers. A few years back the R35 GT-R warranty with Litchfield would cover everything mechanical in the car, but wouldn't cover stuff like lights, interior or wear and tear. Best to speak to them if you are interested.
Depending on the travel available on the Nitrons, what's stopping you asking for a different spring length/rate and going full WRC? They are a coilover unit and essentially easy to modify at source when they are created.
The layout of the vehicle will determine the bump and rebound travel. Being a coilover means it is just easier to adjust ride height, it doesn't mean you will get more travel. Travel is a fundamental characteristic of suspension. You can't get around insufficient travel without seriously hampering other characteristics.Depending on the travel available on the Nitrons, what's stopping you asking for a different spring length/rate and going full WRC? They are a coilover unit and essentially easy to modify at source when they are created.
Also, a set of WRC dampers alone is upwards of 10k.
Kawasicki said:
The layout of the vehicle will determine the bump and rebound travel. Being a coilover means it is just easier to adjust ride height, it doesn't mean you will get more travel. Travel is a fundamental characteristic of suspension. You can't get around insufficient travel without seriously hampering other characteristics.
Also, a set of WRC dampers alone is upwards of 10k.
Its just that people are blinded by not knowing.Also, a set of WRC dampers alone is upwards of 10k.
Without looking i'd say the toyota as long/full stroke dampers and springs to suit. Nitron rolling out a setup that fits and lowers the car just kills it.
I'd be interested to see what the bump steer is like from OE to this.
Gio G said:
It is great they are pretty much first to the market with this sort of stuff, but surely let the consumer buy and run the factory spec first and then feedback on what they want to improve on the car.
They are second guessing what the majority of owners want, before the majority drive their car. Also warranty is a big issue, especially as Toyota have a fairly decent one in place. Piggyback ECU's I assume is just a stop gap, surprised they would release this, as I have heard these are frowned upon in tuning community, just tricking the engine rather than being a proper map..
G
I think 3-4 company’s already have their piggyback remap on the market whereas Lichfield is still playing. They are second guessing what the majority of owners want, before the majority drive their car. Also warranty is a big issue, especially as Toyota have a fairly decent one in place. Piggyback ECU's I assume is just a stop gap, surprised they would release this, as I have heard these are frowned upon in tuning community, just tricking the engine rather than being a proper map..
G
Edited by Gio G on Wednesday 13th January 14:14
I think most car orders seem to have gone to tuners which is good for us as consumers as it gives us choice and hopefully drives prices down.
By the time many get their orders there should be a good understanding of what works and what doesn’t. I know HKS have been running 350bhp plus 100bhp of nitrous on stock clutch, engine and gearbox which is good for those like me that just want a solid motor.
I believe Toyota are simply waiting for 1 year anniversary and releasing there own GR upgrades including remap. There are bound to be some recalls, issues now there are hundreds if not thousands of cars out in the wild. Wait for those to shake out, offer a warranty backed power hike and exhaust etc. If VW could charge 2.5k for a fancy exhaust on a Golf R there is no way Toyota haven't looked at that and worked out some mega profit.
EyeHeartSpellin said:
I believe Toyota are simply waiting for 1 year anniversary and releasing there own GR upgrades including remap. There are bound to be some recalls, issues now there are hundreds if not thousands of cars out in the wild. Wait for those to shake out, offer a warranty backed power hike and exhaust etc. If VW could charge 2.5k for a fancy exhaust on a Golf R there is no way Toyota haven't looked at that and worked out some mega profit.
They already offer a GR exhaust, body kit, strut brace and roll cage but currently only in Japan. That’s my thoughts leave my car a year and see what issues we get then maybe have a play around.
Furyblade_Lee said:
dibblecorse said:
Unless that set up improves its ability to demolish B roads, then I don't see the point, if you buy this wanting to go fast on the super smooth stuff, then I think you've bought the wrong car.
This......^^^^^^
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