RE: Lotus gears up for new sports car launch

[Cold]

highway said:

//

When the new Lotus launches it will need to look amazing and be at least ‘as good’ as Boxster/Cayman, especially if it’s a £50k car. Even then, Porsche dealers are in the main pretty good. They will need to be offering good finance deals as well.
All these elements need big money behind them- the dealer network must reflect the car- at that price point.

So you're saying Lotus dealers will have to refuse to sell you a new car unless you've bought twelve Esprits and an Elan over the past few years while offering a dreadful trade-in price on your current car, but only after they've ignored your attempts at contact for six weeks?

Well, it works for Porsche so it's probably worth a try.

[SidewaysSi]

Cold said:

highway said:

//

When the new Lotus launches it will need to look amazing and be at least ‘as good’ as Boxster/Cayman, especially if it’s a £50k car. Even then, Porsche dealers are in the main pretty good. They will need to be offering good finance deals as well.
All these elements need big money behind them- the dealer network must reflect the car- at that price point.

So you're saying Lotus dealers will have to refuse to sell you a new car unless you've bought twelve Esprits and an Elan over the past few years while offering a dreadful trade-in price on your current car, but only after they've ignored your attempts at contact for six weeks?

Well, it works for Porsche so it's probably worth a try.

It's not about the service, more the fancy coffee, nice floors, hot receptionists and manicured salesmen. That lot makes most people get moist.

[RedAndy]

Cold said:

In other words, he was right all along so bring back our Dany.

yes indeed he was right in terms of strategy, but the bit he missed was 5 great cars. They looked a bit meh to me, and far too samey.

[DonkeyApple]

bcr5784 said:

DMZ said:

Practically anything small, light, simple, petrol powered will be impossible to sell in Europe from now on. I think the reason Japan keeps churning out decidedly old school stuff is because Europe is a minor blip for them and they are increasingly not even bothering selling their newer versions here. Porsche is hoping to go from an SUV brand to an EV brand and sell the odd sports car on the side while remaining within the CO2 quotas or make enough money so they can buy quota.

Lotus needs to cater for the European market so is bound by those constraints. It means batteries. It’s also the only thing that attracts funding these days. Many of the new EV brands have virtually nothing and are worth gazillions. Mind you, you need a bunch of chemists and developers to succeed there and talk about CI/CD and OTA upgrades, not experts in composites.

Ultimately that is true - hence Lotus and Alpine getting into bed together. However, in the short term an emission friendly petrol option is still viable unless emissions taxes become much higher. At the moment nowhere has really high emission taxes on an Alpine - but in some places most competing products have draconian taxes - including Lotus models. So it can be done - and isn't that difficult with a truly light car (but not a supercharged one). The Alpine certainly isn't the best that can be achieved - it doesn't have cylinder deactivation and a mild hybrid could yield much better figures.

A short-term fix for sure, but one that I would be keen to see.

It seems likely that having taken a chunk of taxpayer's money via EV grants to divert to pay the bills and to build a car that comprehensively laughs at the entire concept of any kind of ecotwaddle that they will feel obliged to fit batteries into all new models going forward?

Surely they are going to downsize, add turbos and then use hybridisation to try and fudge the mess caused by the accountants and their modern turbos?

I think the Merc 4 pot delivers 400 bhp and not much less torque. I guess timers are getting more and a 48v mild hybrid system to fudge the legislation would supposedly add more power on top etc.

[CraigyMc]

DonkeyApple said:

I think the Merc 4 pot delivers 400 bhp and not much less torque..

Current A45 S is 416hp/369 lb.ft (=310kW/500Nm). Just adding more precise info.

The German brands have been developing motors with round numbers in kW rather than hp/bhp/PS for a while.
Likewise, torque figures are usually a round number in Nm.
The current 8-speed DCT gearbox in the [A|CLA|GLA] 45 S can handle 520Nm against the existing A45 motor's peak torque of 500Nm.

[otolith]

ICE is in its death throes as more countries declare their timetables for banning them. Lotus needs a credible all electric line-up within the next 10 - 15 years. Any ICE solution is a stopgap and a dead end, as Lotus have acknowledged with their plan to make this their last one.

[bcr5784]

CraigyMc said:

Current A45 S is 416hp/369 lb.ft (=310kW/500Nm). Just adding more precise info.

The German brands have been developing motors with round numbers in kW rather than hp/bhp/PS for a while.
Likewise, torque figures are usually a round number in Nm.
The current 8-speed DCT gearbox in the [A|CLA|GLA] 45 S can handle 520Nm against the existing A45 motor's peak torque of 500Nm.

The A45S isn't offered with a manual box and I'm not convinced MB have one that will handle the torque. In truth most buyers in this segment do choose auto - but I expect a larger proportion of existing Lotus owners would want a manual box.

[highway]

Cold said:

So you're saying Lotus dealers will have to refuse to sell you a new car unless you've bought twelve Esprits and an Elan over the past few years while offering a dreadful trade-in price on your current car, but only after they've ignored your attempts at contact for six weeks?

Well, it works for Porsche so it's probably worth a try.

I’ve had pretty good service from OPC over the years. For starters a range of fantastic loan cars while my 993 was in. Including a (then) brand new 991. I’ve never been in position to buy a new GT car. But think about it. If you had a limited number of cars to sell and loads of people wanting to buy them, how would you manage it?
It won’t be lost on them that some people bu these cars and flip them immediately for, in some cases, big money. Hence policy to try and mitigate that.
People on PH wax on about the fantastic ‘independents’. Having tried a good few, there prices are too close to OPC to make sense. And they don’t have loan cars.
I’ve also been looked after a few times with goodwill as regards cars out of warranty.
Having had experience of many dealerships over the years Porsche are better than most. Indeed, I’m interested, who would you say are better as a marque?

[CraigyMc]

bcr5784 said:

CraigyMc said:

Current A45 S is 416hp/369 lb.ft (=310kW/500Nm). Just adding more precise info.

The German brands have been developing motors with round numbers in kW rather than hp/bhp/PS for a while.
Likewise, torque figures are usually a round number in Nm.
The current 8-speed DCT gearbox in the [A|CLA|GLA] 45 S can handle 520Nm against the existing A45 motor's peak torque of 500Nm.

The A45S isn't offered with a manual box and I'm not convinced MB have one that will handle the torque. In truth most buyers in this segment do choose auto - but I expect a larger proportion of existing Lotus owners would want a manual box.

Have Lotus said they'll be offering the new car with a manual?

[DonkeyApple]

I don't think they've said anything yet. We're just having fun speculating.

[Cold]

DonkeyApple said:

I don't think they've said anything yet. We're just having fun speculating.

Here's today's press release. Nothing too specific.

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/a-new-year-and-a-n...

[anonymous-user]

They've been saying for ages that a new car would arrive in 2021 and it now sounds as though that's been pushed back at least 12 months. So by the time this new Lotus gets the covers pulled off there will be another competitor sitting below the bottom of the McLaren range - in the form of RHD corvettes from £80k to £125k and they're already talking about hybrid power. Meanwhile P***** will sell you a choice of 6-pot 718 or electric Taycan from around £70k and you can bet your life they will have an electric 2-seater in the not very distant future.

I have high hopes for a new Lotus sports car; please don't let it be "too little, too late".

[DonkeyApple]

Cold said:

DonkeyApple said:

I don't think they've said anything yet. We're just having fun speculating.

Here's today's press release. Nothing too specific.

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/a-new-year-and-a-n...

If that's the teaser for the Evora replacement then it looks pretty good and it would certainly end comparisons with Porsche and return the brand to being compared against its correct peers.

[anonymous-user]

DonkeyApple said:

being compared against its correct peers.

Any suggestions?

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

If that's the teaser for the Evora replacement then it looks pretty good and it would certainly end comparisons with Porsche and return the brand to being compared against its correct peers.

That's just the Evija isn't it?

[DonkeyApple]

rockin said:

DonkeyApple said:

being compared against its correct peers.

Any suggestions?

Already covered. It's not the MX5 or the 911. The halo Lotus needs to be pitched against kit that's twice the price not the same price or half the price.

One could imagine that the Elise replacement will be aimed into the same slot as the Alpine etc? And the Evora replacement finally be a dedicated halo car that goes after the top end sports car market and maybe having a track orientated version of one of them to replace the Exige?

They've already proven quite comprehensively that building a dumpy 2+2 to match the 911 has been a disaster.

[bcr5784]

otolith said:

That's just the Evija isn't it?

The three new cars are those to left under covers. It tells you nothing except that they are going to have headlights - which you just might have guessed....

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

DonkeyApple said:

[Img]https://www.lotuscars.com/content/media/4k-Image-002_22JAN20-1024x540.jpg[/thumb]

If that's the teaser for the Evora replacement then it looks pretty good and it would certainly end comparisons with Porsche and return the brand to being compared against its correct peers.

That's just the Evija isn't it?

That's what I thought but the article seemed to suggest it was a teaser of the replacements.

[saaby93]

DonkeyApple said:

Cold said:

DonkeyApple said:

I don't think they've said anything yet. We're just having fun speculating.

Here's today's press release. Nothing too specific.

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/a-new-year-and-a-n...

If that's the teaser for the Evora replacement then it looks pretty good and it would certainly end comparisons with Porsche and return the brand to being compared against its correct peers.

They have a vision80 strategy?

'He added: “As our Vision80 strategy illustrates, Lotus is all about looking forward, and our future is full of continuous innovation. In 2021 however, we will be reflecting on the legacy of our current range, starting with the Elise, a sports car that genuinely revolutionised the automotive industry, not only because it is a legend-in-its-own-lifetime but also for its impact on car design and technology.”'

[Olivera]

DonkeyApple said:

...

+1 for lots of good analysis. -1 for no references to 'people that smell of wee' and Pete Burns.